New Bbc Graphics

[PB22]

Having brought myself to watch the National forecast at 10:30pm I'm afraid to say that I just cannot accept the new graphics in their current format.

Everything seems so confusing now. You don't know whether a front is crossing the country or not, you don't see any Atlantic pressure charts anymore, and I haven't seen any temperature shading charts used. And the so-called outlook was given in individual city style forecasts.

To me it all adds up to a big dumbing down of the forecasts. There's even less time (due to shorter forecasts) to try and take in what's what and make head or tail of it. The BBC aren't going to do a U-turn, we know that. I just hope that they take on board people's comments and make some changes to make things more acceptable. A start would be get rid of the 3D rubbish and to make Britain green again...even better, bring back the old graphics!

Its plain daft..."improve" the graphics, but have even less time to show them off and for people to try and understand them.

In the meantime, I shall continue to stick with ITV local weather, which is very good in East Anglia IMO.

[Bottesford]

Yeah I agree- hating this dumbing down lark. But that's how things seem to have gone on television generally. I think the people who used to watch long forecasts/good documentaries/science stuff generally have migrated to the internet, away from television. Whether this was the cause or the effect of the general dumbing down I'm not sure...

[Anti-Mild]

I noticed a distinct 'dumbing down' of the forecasts around 2000 and, like you TWS, I used to watch the weather religiously, particularly the late night weatherview which was almost always in depth and informative.

Nowadays if I want to know the upcoming weather I come on here and make my own forecast, at least that way I can assimilate all the information available. I now only watch a BBC forecast if I happen to be watching the tv at that particular time, I wont turn over especially.

With regard to the dumbing down, I remember before it happened that the forecast contained a lot of isobar charts, something I was very interested to know about. Up until the recent change, there was usually only 1 or 2 charts, sometimes none and since the new graphics I don't think I have seen a single one.

I posted earlier saying that it surely wouldn't hurt to have even one forecast a day, in the Weatherview timeslot for example, that went into the weather in more depth, with isobar charts, sattelite images, etc, something, in short, more akin to the forecasts we used to have.

My own local BBC forecast on Look North seem more interested in showing Bob Smiths photograph of bluebells in a forest or Rita Browns snap of a cloud behind the Angel of the North. Who cares ?!?!

[johnholmes]

I sent the BBC a fairly lengthy e-mail concerning not only the shortcomings, or otherwise, of the new graphics but also ranging across topics such as the lack of time allocated to weather forecasts both on t.v and radio, the prioritising of programme advertising over the weather forecast and the lack of meteorological knowledge of weather presenters, as opposed to qualified forecasters.

The BBC replied with exactly the same e-mail as everyone else on here received.

The fundamental problem with the forecasts is not so much the new graphics but the lack of time allocated to the bulletin.

If the time devoted to programme advertising before and after the forecast were to be re-allocated to the forecast, it would enable the graphics to be used in conjunction with a synoptic chart and the rainfall radar. The forecaster would have enough time to explain the weather clearly and concisely for each area of the British Isles and there would also be enough time to a reasonable outlook to be included.

As the situation stands at present the new graphics are nothing more than glossy window dressing which cannot disguise the fact that the BBC place more emphasis on programme trailers than they do on the weather forecast.

We would expect this of the commercial channels, indeed we have become used to it.

The weather forecast is important public information and the BBC, as purveyors of public information, should be head and shoulders above the competition when presenting it. This is patently not the case and the situation is lamentable.

T.M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi TM

My point exactly but neither the BBC officially not Microburst on here seem willing to engage in a contstructive discussion about it. See m's comment about my request. If you make a positive remark, albeit negative to what the BBC want then you are just 'fobbed off'. Its a little difficult to understand when we all pay the BBC licence fee.

I think I'm just going to give up with BBC, a shame as I did have preofessional dealings with them for around 5 years. We now have access to systems like GFS and maybe we should rely on that and banish BBC from our list.

yours, not in anger, just sadness at how this issue is being dealt with.

John

[PB22]

hi TM

My point exactly but neither the BBC officially not Microburst on here seem willing to engage in a contstructive discussion about it. See m's comment about my request. If you make a positive remark, albeit negative to what the BBC want then you are just 'fobbed off'. Its a little difficult to understand when we all pay the BBC licence fee.

I think I'm just going to give up with BBC, a shame as I did have preofessional dealings with them for around 5 years. We now have access to systems like GFS and maybe we should rely on that and banish BBC from our list.

yours, not in anger, just sadness at how this issue is being dealt with.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree 100% John. The BBC are not conducting themselves at all well in this matter. Which is why they have lost me as a viewer of their forecasts. My complaint and constructive criticism to them has fallen on deaf ears and was met with an automated email response. How dumbed down can they get now?!

GFS and the internet is the way forward...I pity those who do not have this luxuary (sp.?).

[Nath]

I have now watched the BBC weather for 3 days and I hate it so much its ITV from now on. Although I take a keen interest in the weather the one thing that sticks in my mind for the next day's weather is what symbol is over london

9 times out of 10 a simple symbol will do the trick ie: a Sun=Sunny, A Rain drop and a half sun=showers and a Rain cloud=rain.

With the new forecasts I forget what the forecast actually is as soon as its over!!!

[Stratos Ferric]

After the PR media hype I'm staggered by the poor quality of the "upgraded" graphics: a fine example of the triumph of presentation over content - perhaps New Labour should adopt the supplier for the next election?

The official response to complaints, including the asseertion that TV data will match "on line" data just about sums it up by entirely missing the irony of the frequent moans about inconsistent, and sometimes outlandish, on line summary data.

For sure the graphics are very clever, but I feel like I've gone from being the pilot of a helicopter, with good all round vision and control of what I registered, to a passenger on a plane with no windows passing through significant turbulence, wondering what on earth is going on and what is happening next.

The other muge mistake that this form of presentation makes is in suggesting precision in the forecast where this really doesn't exist. I was having a wry smile this evening when the projection showed a puddle over OONland tomorrow afternoon. I'm bright enough to know that this is an indication of showery activity, but the masses for whom this dumbed-down nonsense is presumably designed to cater may well assume that it is going to rain near Appleby but not in, say, Sedbergh or Cartmel: plain silly.

The old forecast worked because it was structured well and presented simply. It went from the big picture to an appropriate level of detail and combined summary symbols with an additional value-adding commentary from the forecaster. It included today and a forward view, and it made the link between satellite pictures, radar, forecast charts and pressure charts in a logical way in a single plane that was easy for the brain to take in.

For sure, I might well get used to it, just as I would get used to riding in a windowless 'plane, but the fact that I might get used to it doesn't make it better!

[Guest Phil_Uk]

The graphics are very clever.

Scotland when panning South in your Lear Jet looks so tiny.

Massive puddles up there, no wonder I had to fly 36,00ft! (And that was South of Brum too last October!

Be honest. Microsoft Flight Simulator was less dizzy than this latest version provided by the BBC. At least there was a BIRMINGHAM ON IT

But landed the plane!

Bouncy but! There ya go!

Would I make it as a pilot?

Phil.

[Microburst]

hi TM

My point exactly but neither the BBC officially not Microburst on here seem willing to engage in a contstructive discussion about it. See m's comment about my request. If you make a positive remark, albeit negative to what the BBC want then you are just 'fobbed off'. Its a little difficult to understand when we all pay the BBC licence fee.

I think I'm just going to give up with BBC, a shame as I did have preofessional dealings with them for around 5 years. We now have access to systems like GFS and maybe we should rely on that and banish BBC from our list.

yours, not in anger, just sadness at how this issue is being dealt with.

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stop trying to provoke me John. You do nothing for your cause. There maybe safety in numbers with people here all agreeing with each other and slating the BBC beyond recognition but then people do that all the time. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown!

I suggest you phone BBC Information to obtain an answer from those who schedule programmes 0870 010 0222 as to the timings allocated for weather. BBC Scheduling should help you - failing that write to the new controller of BBC1 Peter Fincham.

You say I dont seem willing to engage in constructive discussion. RubbiDoh a dumb swear filter got the better of me It's what I have been trying to do amidst the barrage attack from you lot. However I am told BBC Information is there for you to ask so maybe it would be better if you go down this route as I don't seem to be able to help you. MB

[The PIT]

I think they're are changing the map now seems more zoomed in or I'm getting used too it.

Other problems I noticed is that the time period goes past too quickly. One second you're looking at 8 O'clock next is 10 but you're looking at one corner and missing the detail on the screen.

The forecasters now seem content to whiz round the coast. Sorry I live the central part of the country and cannot get a good enougth look at the Weather.

Winds were mentioned but not shown today just that it was going to breezy. sorry not good enougth.

Todays forecast like Yesterdays is already wrong. Misplaced graphics I'm beginning to think so.

Overall this the new forecasts aren't really worth the money and the time used to present them.

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

Quite true Mrs M. The BBC at el, will always change there graphics, but I would point out this to all their criticiser.

To have appointed these new graphics (whether we individually like them or not), would have been researched and public tested to see whether, us, the public, prefer them to their previous ones (otherwise, it would have been a waste of money). If they had not recieved a positive feedback, they wouldnt have done them.

I've only seen them a few times, and I find them quite useful (I actually think they show more detail than before, which is surely a good thing )

[johnholmes]

Stop trying to provoke me John. You do nothing for your cause. There maybe safety in numbers with people here all agreeing with each other and slating the BBC beyond recognition but then people do that all the time. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown!

I suggest you phone BBC Information to obtain an answer from those who schedule programmes 0870 010 0222 as to the timings allocated for weather. BBC Scheduling should help you - failing that write to the new controller of BBC1 Peter Fincham.

You say I dont seem willing to engage in constructive discussion. RubbiDoh a dumb swear filter got the better of me It's what I have been trying to do amidst the barrage attack from you lot. However I am told BBC Information is there for you to ask so maybe it would be better if you go down this route as I don't seem to be able to help you. MB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi M

I am certainly not trying to provoke. I regret you feel that is the case. Thank you for the telephone number I will most certainly use it.

I rang that number, pleasant Scots lady listened to my comments, asked a couple of questions, took name and tel number after I made my constructive comments. I have now finished making comments on here. Please give your comments to the number M quoted and lets get on with life!

j

regards

John

[Great Plum]

Good post there by SF - how are people meant to tell that it is sunshine and showers - it looks like there are areas with rain all day and sunshine next door to them - it really isn't very clear at all.

Also, having watched the 10.30 forecast last night, the poor weather presenter ( I can't remember who it was) was speaking so quickly that it was hard to keep up with him - I never noticed that as being a problem before...

[SizzlingHeat]

As already said in the other thread (now locked), please remember that Net-Weather cannot actually 'do' anything about the BBC, or the graphics it chooses to use, or whether or not any particular city or town is included in their forecasts.

If you have a gripe with or against the BBC please direct it to them and do not use Net-Weather as a platform to launch an attack at them (or each other).

Many thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

were not griping etc we just like to have a good chat about what we all think, theres nothing wrong with that. TWO have been going for 40 pages, they havent locked their topic so i dont understand why we all cant talk about something that is new and what we all want to talk about.

[Andy Bown]

I had a problem deciphering today's weather from the 2230 (note 24 hour timing given ) forecast last night.

In my best deciphering I thought there would be a dry morning with showers building by midday and then a huge blob of heavy rain pulsing up from the SW early afternoon.

So I decided I'd do my outdoor work this morning. Nothing had changed by the 0815 forecast so I definitely decided to go out this morning.

What happened so far today - drizzle all morning and now a fine warm afternoon with sunny spells. No showers around let alone a sniff of heavy rain!

Perhaps what has happened today was what was actually shown and I interpreted wrong? Therefore of course the old symbols system could have had dark cloud and one rain spot for the morning, then a half sunshine for this afternoon. And if showers were likely then that old favourite sun and rain togather would have sufficed!

I'd have been better off doing the work now, but it's done and I got wet

I don't believe the forecast was wrong last night/this morning.

I believe that I mis interpreted what it was showing.

[Microburst]

hi M

I am certainly not trying to provoke. I regret you feel that is the case. Thank you for the telephone number I will most certainly use it.

I rang that number, pleasant Scots lady listened to my comments, asked a couple of questions, took name and tel number after I made my constructive comments. I have now finished making comments on here. Please give your comments to the number M quoted and lets get on with life!

j

regards

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi John,

I am pleased that the pleasant Scots lady was able to help. Most Scots ladies are as I am married to one!!

As and when I find any further information about the trials and tribulations of these graphics and the ongoing drama unfolding around them, I will let everyone know. Weather forecasts on Monday look like being unaffected by the 24 hour strike at the BBC at this stage.

Best wishes to all MB

[SizzlingHeat]

hi microburst, off topic here but i couldnt but notic that you live in cheam! Im in worcester park, literally about half a mile from you. strange!!

[i luv snow]

im not being offensive here but whats strange about two people who use the forum who happen to live half a mile near each other? hardly strange

[Microburst]

hi microburst, off topic here but i couldnt but notic that you live in cheam! Im in worcester park, literally about half a mile from you. strange!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Worcester Park strange? never!..... quickest way to the A3 I know! Spent many a daily half hour queueing in traffic at the numerous sets of traffic lights in Central Road and yes, sometimes in Sizzling Heat! if we get a Summer this year!

[SizzlingHeat]

i find it strange, dont know why i just do.

[Microburst]

UPDATE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION - (press release) 1530 19/05/05

The BBC has been forced onto the defensive over its new £1m weather forecasts after an avalanche of complaints from viewers, politicians, disability groups and even its own former weather presenters.

Hundreds of people have complained about the 3D bulletins, in which "virtual reality" clouds and rain are animated over a beige-coloured British Isles.

Viewers complained the new forecasts were confusing, induced motion sickness, and under-represented Scotland and the north of England. Bill Giles, the BBC's former chief weatherman, branded them "very confusing".

Andrew Lane, the manager of the BBC Weather Centre, admitted it would "take a little time for people to get used to the new system".

But he said the 3D forecasts, which have even been the subject of an early day motion in parliament, will give viewers "the extra clarity and detail they have told us they want from our forecasts".

"We have introduced a new system because our old graphics were criticised as 'staid', 'flat' and 'boring' in the audience research we carried out. Central to the new look, therefore, is a 3D perspective of the UK," he said in a lengthy statement published on the BBC's website.

"This change enables us to take viewers on 'tours' of the nations and regions, and to show in clearer detail than before what the weather is doing. Scotland, for instance, is actually no smaller than on the old 2D maps, but with the new 3D forecast, the bottom part of the map is closer to the viewer."

But the Scottish National party, whose MP Angus MacNeil tabled an early day motion in the Commons in protest at the new forecasts, today stood by its claim that Scotland had been shrunk by the BBC's weather map.

Mr MacNeil called on viewers to "flood the BBC with complaints".

"There would be outcry in London if the map was angled from the north, because it would have Barra bigger than London and Lewis twice the size of the south-west," he said.

"We are well used to changeable weather, but this map is a change too far."

An SNP party official said today it was "just not true" that Scotland had not shrunk in the new forecasts.

"It is quite clear that if the map was viewed from the other way round then you would have to squint to see London. It is all about perspective."

The new weather forecasts were unveiled on Monday. Although the BBC's in-house magazine, Ariel, claimed it had "gone down a storm with all but the most nostalgic of viewers", hundreds of complaints have poured in.

The BBC's former weather chief, Bill Giles, who retired five years ago, said the new forecasts were "too much, too quickly. The new technology is very clever, but I don't think they've thought it through carefully enough."

His comments were echoed by the Daily Telegraph's Philip Eden, who said the BBC had "got too excited about its new box of tricks. I judge a forecast on three criteria: is it simple? Is it clear? And does it provide information? The first two certainly aren't ticked, and there seems to be less information about the temperature and wind."

But the BBC said viewers were often confused by the amount of information given to them.

"Many people do not understand pressure charts and feel disenfranchised when they are shown," said Mr Lane.

"However, we will continue to use them when they help to tell the weather story.

"We decided to use a plain background for the maps and the colour chosen was the one that enables us to show the weather details over it in greatest clarity."

The Disability Rights Commission and the Royal National Institute for the Blind warned that visually impaired people may struggle to decipher the symbols.

ITV revealed this week it had been offered the same graphics software but turned it down because they thought the "excessive use of 3D graphics would just leave the viewer confused".

[Great Plum]

I had a problem deciphering today's weather from the 2230 (note 24 hour timing given ) forecast last night.

In my best deciphering I thought there would be a dry morning with showers building by midday and then a huge blob of heavy rain pulsing up from the SW early afternoon.

*snip*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too have misinterpreted today's weather - I didn't realise it rain all day as it has done so far since 9.30am!

Interesting article there Microburst - it seems the BBC aren't taking notice of these complaints yet...

[Guest Phil_Uk]

UPDATE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION - (press release) 1530 19/05/05

The BBC has been forced onto the defensive over its new £1m weather forecasts after an avalanche of complaints from viewers, politicians, disability groups and even its own former weather presenters.

Microburst posts this at 15:29

Like I said, automated! :

Phil.

[Thundery wintry showers]

For sure, I might well get used to it, just as I would get used to riding in a windowless 'plane, but the fact that I might get used to it doesn't make it better!

Excellent analogy IMO- I like it!

To be honest, reading over the posts, I think most of them have been perfectly constructive and mostly voicing opinions on what people like and don't like about the new system. Only a small minority of the comments have been aggressive, launching attacks on the BBC and unconstructive slating.

The main constructive points are very clear, and have been made many times over, along with the odd bit of non-constructive stuff. I also find Bill Giles's and Philip Eden's comments to be pretty near the mark with respect to popular opinion.

I still wonder where this research that showed that people don't want pressure charts etc. came from. Was it representative, etc, is the sort of question, for wherever this came from, it appears that it was at odds with general public opinion. Sometimes what the media tells us is the 'average' person is not necessarily really the 'average' person. And even if this public outcry is only done by the vocal minority and the majority are happy and staying quiet- isn't it equally possible that the people who complained about aspects of the old system could have been a vocal minority? Added to that, there are many people out there who are unhappy and not speaking out.

[J10]

I've now seen a few forecasts now and a clear pattern is emerging.

The regional forecasts are far superior to what they were on the old graphics, there if a greater use of synoptic charts and pressure charts, and you get a much better overall picture. You can also get a better timing of the proposed rainfall.

On this lunchtime's forecast, Derek Brockway said "You can tell where the sunshine is, it's the lighter shade of beige on the chart."

I agree with the sentiments though, you cannot do a short forecast with the new technology.

I personally along with many who have commented are not anti BBC, the BBC has produced the best most reliable weather forecasts for decades, and we just want that to continue. If they are prepared to adapt the new technology which undoubtedly has major potential, then we can continue to have the best weather forecasts on this channel.