BBC Weather Forecasts and Graphics Discussion

[rob-lancs]

Just making sure that my comments on the previous page weren't a load of crap. Please let me know if they were.

[Microburst]

Just making sure that my comments on the previous page weren't a load of crap. Please let me know if they were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rob,

No, to the contrary, it was a very interesting post, so much so that I have e mailed it on to Andy Lane in weather.

Thank you

MB

[rob-lancs]

I tend to ramble on about nothing so I was hoping that some of the ramble was of some use. I'm glad it was.

[Microburst]

yes, thank you MB, will await the reply

regards

John

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It will take a few days John, remind me on Friday if I have not replied

MB

[shuggee]

Having just been on holiday - I have had the pleasure of 24hour rolling news and weather on BBC World in the hotel.

A whole host of presenters and a differnt regional focus with every forecast at xx27 past each hour.

Other channels available in the hotel included a couple of German news channels, Euronews, and Bulgarian news. All of which use the traditional symbols and maps. This brought me back to earth with a wider-view perspective now that I have got used to the graphics here at home.

Needless to say the BBC World forecast looks cheap, unprofessional, less easy to understand and much less detailed than all the other competing channels. Only the professionalism of the forecasters/presenters describing the weather, both verbally and with physcial movement saves the day. The BBC World forecast's graphics are quite simply an embarrasment compared to the other channels.

[J10]

Fair enough, but all you quote are wind arrows and UV levels ( obvious anyway at this time of year , surely).Apart from the wind arrows , very little has changed from day one.

I fear that what is happening is that you are getting used to it , as the memory of the old style fades.This is exactly what the BBC are counting on.

I do agree with JH though that the time allowed is derisory and not helping a broader look at the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I quite liked the new forecasts from day 1, the changes made have addressed the main complaints, and also the reintroduction of temperatures contours also helps. the regional forecasts are now longer than they used to be and are considerably better than ever before. IMO the next 24 hours are also presented better with more detail of the weather and when it is likely to happen. After the 24 hours though, the outlook charts are not brilliant.

Countryfile is starting to improve, and to be honest shows what can be done if the forecast length was suitable.

One final point the BBC Weather website is far better than before and gives much more information than before.

[Microburst]

Having just been on holiday - I have had the pleasure of 24hour rolling news and weather on BBC World in the hotel.

A whole host of presenters and a differnt regional focus with every forecast at xx27 past each hour.

Other channels available in the hotel included a couple of German news channels, Euronews, and Bulgarian news.  All of which use the traditional symbols and maps.  This brought me back to earth with a wider-view perspective now that I have got used to the graphics here at home.

Needless to say the BBC World forecast looks cheap, unprofessional, less easy to understand and much less detailed than all the other competing channels.  Only the professionalism of the forecasters/presenters describing the weather, both verbally and with physcial movement saves the day.  The BBC World forecast's graphics are quite simply an embarrasment compared to the other channels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have just looked at the latest BBC World forecast feed we have here in the office Shuggee and I can't say I can honestly go as far as you in your criticism. Whilst there are some differences from the old, granted, the information portrayed is the same. Strangely enough there have been very few inbound complaints worldwide from the new global forecast graphics.

[shuggee]

Fair enough mb - the viewers' comments are king.

It was just very interesting getting a pan-European perspective on different weather-forecasting styles. IMHO the BBC's style was the least good. And having got used to it at home, and even quite like it - it was back down to earth with a bump.

Having said that of course, it might just be that the BBC are the bravest risk-takers and well ahead of the pack...

But euronews weather (a French owned media company) was easily the best to follow and most detailed graphically.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I still feel that the National forecasts on weekdays are more devoid of detail than they were with the old system.

For those people who only want to know whether it will be warm or cold, rain or no rain at their location it may be better, but for anyone wanting more info, there still seems to be a lack of it. No pressure charts, often no wind information, and it is usually unclear as to where is dry and sunny (as opposed to cloudy), and whether rain is persistent or showery.

In 2000 I wouldn't have even considered going to the internet to find weather information because the BBC's was more than sufficient. I used to make up my own forecasts based on (a) the information on the BBC forecasts and ( experience of where they tend to go wrong. Now, after seeing a BBC National forecast, I feel a need to check the internet for more info, and I couldn't provide any sort of forecast based on the info provided by one.

Let's be blunt here- my interest in weather developed between 1995 and 2000, largely because of the excellent standards of the BBC forecasts. The way they are now, with the exception of Countryfile, this wouldn't have happened.

There have been discernable improvements, but it is still, IMO, less informative than forecasts under the old system.

[Nick H]

Did anyone see Peter Gibbs' interview with the NY Times? Apologies if this has already been mentioned on here.

[J10]

Sometimes I watch the new forecasts and I think the detail is far better particularly on sunshine, rainfall, particularly in showery situation where prone spots are shown in more detail. More time in the forecast is given to Northern Ireland and Scoltand, which didn't happen often before the change.

All in all the following day is much easier to follow.

But after the first 24 hours, the lack of charts and sometimes the detail is very sketchy and generally the information given is not as precise as before.

For those wishing to learn from the forecasts, the new forecasts are much worse, and often I think when watching the forecasts, why exactly is there rain on Friday, as there is no explanation given.

Sometimes I think the new forecasts are better, sometimes worse, on the whole I think they are slightly better but hopefully with more improvements to come.

Message to MB - Is there any way there can be a detailed forecast done each day even on BBC3/4, which is at least 3-4 minutes long. Please.

[Microburst]

I still feel that the National forecasts on weekdays are more devoid of detail than they were with the old system.

For those people who only want to know whether it will be warm or cold, rain or no rain at their location it may be better, but for anyone wanting more info, there still seems to be a lack of it.  No pressure charts, often no wind information, and it is usually unclear as to where is dry and sunny (as opposed to cloudy), and whether rain is persistent or showery.

In 2000 I wouldn't have even considered going to the internet to find weather information because the BBC's was more than sufficient.  I used to make up my own forecasts based on (a) the information on the BBC forecasts and ( experience of where they tend to go wrong.  Now, after seeing a BBC National forecast, I feel a need to check the internet for more info, and I couldn't provide any sort of forecast based on the info provided by one.

Let's be blunt here- my interest in weather developed between 1995 and 2000, largely because of the excellent standards of the BBC forecasts.  The way they are now, with the exception of Countryfile, this wouldn't have happened.

There have been discernable improvements, but it is still, IMO, less informative than forecasts under the old system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TWS, Pressure charts are now used frequently on the CF forecast on Sundays and used to give a synopsis for the coming week. Wind directional speed arrows are now included on most daily tv forecasts on the BBC. Showery rain and continuous rain are depicted and the light and dark shadings for sun and cloud.

Bear in mind too that the light and dark shading is also useful for (believe it or not) 18% of the UK population who have black and white tv! Remember those days!!

Just be patient TWS. As the new digital infrastructure takes hold and more and more analogue is discarded things will improve. Rome wasn't built in a day and they have only just started building the BBC again!

MB

[Microburst]

Sometimes I watch the new forecasts and I think the detail is far better particularly on sunshine, rainfall, particularly in showery situation where prone spots are shown in more detail. More time in the forecast is given to Northern Ireland and Scoltand, which didn't happen often before the change.

All in all the following day is much easier to follow.

But after the first 24 hours, the lack of charts and sometimes the detail is very sketchy and generally the information given is not as precise as before.

For those wishing to learn from the forecasts, the new forecasts are much worse, and often I think when watching the forecasts, why exactly is there rain on Friday, as there is no explanation given.

Sometimes I think the new forecasts are better, sometimes worse, on the whole I think they are slightly better but hopefully with more improvements to come.

Message to MB - Is there any way there can be a detailed forecast done each day even on BBC3/4, which is at least 3-4 minutes long. Please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair comment Jackone I will pass this on in the duty log.

As for your message the answer is probably not. Never say never but it is more unlikely on BBC3 and 4 than BBC 1. The reason here being audience share.

MB

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Why can't the BBC produce 2 formats? The new flashy graphic one for prime time, and perhaps an old-style one late into the night, for nerds like us? They could if they wanted to...they already provide forecasts in a multitude of styles, and everyone would be happy.

[Microburst]

Why can't the BBC produce 2 formats? The new flashy graphic one for prime time, and perhaps an old-style one late into the night, for nerds like us? They could if they wanted to...they already provide forecasts in a multitude of styles, and everyone would be happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many factors and Cost OON, in a word, also they no longer have access to the software for the old graphics now, time is another and since the new graphics were designed to work alongside the BBC's new investment into the new digital broadcasting transmission hardware, problems for running 2 systems would send the BBC into more chaos

In the BBC, although it may seem strange without explanation, everything is done for numerous reasons not just one! It is a very complex organisation and none more so than digital television. To the public changes seem reckless and strange at times but I can assure you the changes that have and are continuing to be ma de will make for a better BBC :o

MB

[Mr Sleet]

I quite liked the new forecasts from day 1, the changes made have addressed the main complaints, and also the reintroduction of temperatures contours also helps. the regional forecasts are now longer than they used to be and are considerably better than ever before. IMO the next 24 hours are also presented better with more detail of the weather and when it is likely to happen. After the 24 hours though, the outlook charts are not brilliant.

Countryfile is starting to improve, and to be honest shows what can be done if the forecast length was suitable.

One final point the BBC Weather website is far better than before and gives much more information than before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jackone.At the risk of being dubbed the " Victor Meldrew of Net-weather" ,I have to say that personally I think the website is worse too.

Poorly drawn and labelled synoptic charts, low res rain radar that is usually well out of date, summaries that are often wrong ( last friday a good case in point; full sun symbols over Thame when it had been cloudy all morning and we were in the throes of a violent thunderstorm).

No sorry, whoever has got hold of the weather service has buggered it up big time.

PS The classic one this morning was Helen Willets showing the cloud/rain moving through last night and this morning. The caption : "EARLIER" in massive letters in a box.The dumbing down knows no bounds.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Mr Sleet

[J10]

Mr Sleet - I think we'll agree to disagree on this, I find the information given on the BBC Website much better than before, much more information particularly on regional weather, symbols which weren't there before (ironic I know B) ), 5 day summaries on weather maps and generally I use the BBC website far more than previously.

The bigger maps also helps with the radar as well, IMO as well the cloud detail which is at least reasonably accurate helps to gauge the likely weather.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Having seen a recent BBC Regional forecast, I go along with the general consensus- the new graphics appear to have led to a marked improvement in regional forecasts. Before, I thought BBC regional forecasts were a letdown and not much better than those of ITV, but now they seem to be very good.

Again the pressing issue is time allocation- they have at least as much time to cover about one-fifth of the country, so they do forecasts that are five times better than the national forecasts.

[Paul]

Ok, I'd be interested in some opinions here - assuming that the BBC is highly unlikely to increase time allocations to forecasts in the near future, what is the alternative?

Personally I think the alternative is the internet, as I said on the previous thread, so what can net-weather do to fill the void that in many of your opinions the lack of time etc on the BBC is leaving?

[johnholmes]

will PM you tomorrow Paul about this

regards

John

[Nath]

Ok, I'd be interested in some opinions here - assuming that the BBC is highly unlikely to increase time allocations to forecasts in the near future, what is the alternative?

Personally I think the alternative is the internet, as I said on the previous thread, so what can net-weather do to fill the void that in many of your opinions the lack of time etc on the BBC is leaving?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about a daily net-weather web cast

[Mr Sleet]

Ok, I'd be interested in some opinions here - assuming that the BBC is highly unlikely to increase time allocations to forecasts in the near future, what is the alternative?

Personally I think the alternative is the internet, as I said on the previous thread, so what can net-weather do to fill the void that in many of your opinions the lack of time etc on the BBC is leaving?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK- How about tilting the Home page a bit and having a brown background. Oh and remove all synoptic charts.

Seriously, Net-Weather provides all the info I need, and I am not going to criticise a free service which people put a lot of their spare time into.

As a constructive suggestion, it can be a bit untidy;after a year of visiting I just about know where everything is, but newbies may not, and they may be coming on here because they are nonplussed by the Beebs latest offering. How about a medium term look at a more user friendly layout, easier to find things.

It's what Metcheck have done, quite successfully ( when the server is up)

Mr Sleet

[Paul]

Cheers Mr Sleet - a redesign is in the offing - current (very rough) target is the autumn as a release of the new look, but thats subject to change! You are right, it can be a bit cluttered at times, to put it simply we have outgrown our current layout :blink:

[shuggee]

How about a daily net-weather web cast :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not such a bad idea Nath! Difficult to organise I would imagine - but worth looking into?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the addition of wind speed arrows into the mainstream graphic presentations is very welcome :-)

Edited June 30, 2005 by shuggee

[johnholmes]

excellent idea!

who is going to do it?