Synoptic Patterns

[Rollo]

It seems to me that certain situations we used to get in my area never seem to occur now,for instance it was quite normal some years ago in winter for a Cold front to move south through the area to be followed by a drop in temperature with a frost following,the front would slow down across central Northern England and a wave would then develop which then moved slowly ENE with Newcastle always to the north of the front,rain or sleet would then set in ,turn to snow and gives us a good covering.I accept are winters are less cold than in the 60's,70's and 80's but the picture in my minds eye is of heavy snow falling softly with next to no wind. Perhaps some posters can remember other situations in there paticular area.

[summer blizzard]

That is what caused the November snow event, the wave must cause dynamic cooling in the upper atmosphere.

[Methuselah]

I also seem to remember those synoptics Rollo, back in the sixties? Didn't something along those lines, cause 1967's white Christmas?

I seem to recall rain falling on a very light SW wind at about 4C...Over a period of a few hours, rain turned to sleet and the to snow - whilst the wind remained light...It was only later on Christmas Day - gee, this is going back a while - that a north wind picked-up and turned all the slush into ice?

Whatever happened to Bert Foord's 'wave depressions'?

[summer blizzard]

How much snow did they usually bring??????????????

[Rollo]

How much snow did they usually bring??????????????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that depended on how slowly the wave was moving but I recall from 4 to 10 inches.

[summer blizzard]

Could you give me the date one of these wave depressions came, so that i can veiw a synoptic chart of one??????????????????????

Edited August 1, 2005 by summer blizzard

[Methuselah]

Have a butcher's at December 24th & 25th 1967...We can all see if that's the type of thing Rollo means...

Can you pu it up as an attachment, SB?

[J10]

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119671225.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119671224.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00219671224.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00219671225.gif

Seems a little too warm.

[Rollo]

Have a butcher's at December 24th & 25th 1967...We can all see if that's the type of thing Rollo means...

Can you pu it up as an attachment, SB?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peter I think you are referring to those dates in 1968 when the Midlands and Wales were affected by a small slow moving depression which gave considerable snowfall in those areas.

[J10]

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119681225.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119681224.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00219681224.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00219681225.gif

Try again for 1968.

[Methuselah]

Peter I think you are referring to those dates in 1968 when the Midlands and Wales were affected by a small slow moving depression which gave considerable snowfall in those areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rollo,

Is there a record somewhere of white Christmases? I'm certain we had one in MK in 1967...Don't say that my memory's playing up!

[Rollo]

Hi Rollo,

Is there a record somewhere of white Christmases? I'm certain we had one in MK in 1967...Don't say that my memory's playing up!    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peter,I have the charts for that period and am just going to check....... nope temperatures were too high and no frozen precipitation is shown at all-must have been 68'--- sorry.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I find that this setup is often forecast to happen, then the front just doesn't get as far north as expected. Either that, or a large depression (<960mbar) forms west of Ireland and forces it all north, bringing southerly gales and 10-13C behind it.

Chances are that you were talking about 1968, my parents remember that White Christmas in the North East, and the fact that it wasn't even forecast. There was an article in the Telegraph by Philip Eden about the 1968 White Christmas, but I can't remember what he said about the specifics, unfortunately, other than that it wasn't forecast.

[Rollo]

I find that this setup is often forecast to happen, then the front just doesn't get as far north as expected.  Either that, or a large depression (<960mbar) forms west of Ireland and forces it all north, bringing southerly gales and 10-13C behind it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That must be the case,I know it seems a very long time since it occured but it would be nice if it did happen again.

[Methuselah]

Peter,I have the charts for that period and am just going to check....... nope temperatures were too high and no frozen precipitation is shown at all-must have been 68'--- sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye, you're right-enough Rollo... I was obviously getting confused with that other once-in-a-lifetime event - Spurs winning the FA Cup!!!

[summer blizzard]

Here are the charts for the christmas of 1968.

[Rollo]

Aye, you're right-enough Rollo...   I was obviously getting confused with that other once-in-a-lifetime event - Spurs winning the FA Cup!!!    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peter, looking at December 67' there was an interesting pattern from 6th to 10th December when a Polar low moved SSE from just west of Scotland to be over central southern england and that seemed to give a fairly substantial snowfall-could that be what you remember.

[Methuselah]

Peter, looking at December 67' there was an interesting pattern from 6th to 10th December when a Polar low moved SSE from just west of Scotland to be over central southern england and that seemed to give a fairly substantial snowfall-could that be what you remember.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye, I do remember that too, strangely enough...I just got the years mixed-up!!

[reef]

Frontal snow in winter itself is actually quite rare now, we usually seem to get showers and the odd troughs but that is all. Polar lows are also quite rare too, though we did have one one January 28th 2004:

http://www.wetterzentraleforum.de/archive/...cka20040128.gif

A recent lack of these events are mainly why we havent had countrywide snowfall for many years. The polar low in 2004 dissipated and swerved south-eastwards so many areas of the south only recieved a dusting.

Edited August 1, 2005 by reef

[summer blizzard]

Mnay areas of the south actually did better off from this event than the north, because by the time the frontal system had reached the south, there was no warm sector which meant that while i got two one centimetre falls of snow, London got five centimetres.

I do think it is pathetic that five centimetres of snow brought London to a standstill.

[Optimus Prime]

I do think it is pathetic that five centimetres of snow brought London to a standstill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it is one of the busiest cities in the world

That snow even on 2004, polor low was quite impressive. Here I got 3cm in just 15 minutes with thunder and strong winds.

The temperature drop was something like from 5c to 1c in 5 minutes..ended up at -4c hat night.

[reef]

Mnay areas of the south actually did better off from this event than the north, because by the time the frontal system had reached the south, there was no warm sector which meant that while i got two one centimetre falls of snow, London got five centimetres.

I do think it is pathetic that five centimetres of snow brought London to a standstill.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The north did much better. We had a good 6 inches here that day. The satellite image shows it perfectly. What is odd though is how Sheffield and the surrounding area totally missed out. It also shows how the west coast and devon missed out.

[summer blizzard]

Great photograph, i only got one inch from that event, and i cannot be more than fifty miles east of you, which just goes to show how the west missed out on the significant accumulations.

Was there not a ice day the next day?????????????????????

[reef]

Great photograph, i only got one inch from that event, and i cannot be more than fifty miles east of you, which just goes to show how the west missed out on the significant accumulations.

Was there not a ice day the next day?????????????????????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 30th was here, the one and only ice-day Ive ever recorded! The maxima that day was -0.2°C.

I guess ice-days are another rarity nowadays, mainly as our cold spells are so short lived or happen too late in thw winter when the sun is stronger. Take the Kent event in late February 2005, despite -15°C 850hPa air, most areas still managed to reach above freezing due to the strength of the sun.

[summer blizzard]

I believe that i only reached a temperature of -0.6C that day, it was freezing however i still liked it.

In the end of Feburary event, the temperature managed to reach 1.6C for a hour before dropping below freezing again, because i am fairly young, that is the best cold spell i am able to remember.