Ice age on the way (merged threads)

[Essan]

Can any moderator tell me if its going to snow january 21 2030 please? :blush:

I'm not a Moderator. But I can assure you there is a guaranteed 100% chance of it snowing quite heavily on January 21st 2030.

I just can't tell you where yet. Probably somewhere in Greenland. Or maybe Alaska ...... :blush:

[Guest Daniel]

If only the stooges at iceagenow understood geology and plate tectonics??? There simply hasn't been any sufficiently-discernable increase in undersea vulcanism on the required scale...iceagenow notwithstanding, where are these vast plumes of hot air coming from? The boiling oceans? :blush: There's as much evidence in favour of alien deathrays or Tesla Coils being responsible!

Never mind, peeps - as GW is not allowed be in-any-way down to anthropogenic ghgs, let's all make-up as many extraodinary alternative hypotheses as we can. Science is only a social cconstruct anyway, so it's all relative really? Must keep an open mind, blah blah blah??? :blush:

That said: I am quite aware of natural cycles...

Iceage now is going from strenth to strenth and another artical in it called water nice but not as ice is sugesting that under water volcanos is pumping vast amounts of moisture in the skies and that will cause brutal cold and massive snow. I got an open mind on that and so far we not seen any effects on the U.K from this under water volcanos. Howvere there no reason why we cant have bitter cold again in winter. Just think of what would happen to modern England if deep snow was to lye on the ground for weeks on end and rivers and coasts freeze over. Such events were quite common from the 16 to the 19th centuries and even occured in the 20th as well. but not in modern times. In the past most of us lived and worked in the same Area and the last true great freeze happened before most of us had cars or traveled long distances to work and was still in the age of the steam railway. that was 1963. If such a winter was to happen again or even a less cold winter but with long periods of deep lying snow. Indeed there has been many less cold winters than 1963 that gave weeks of deep snow. If this was to happen again life in modern England would be very difficult. Today even a few inches is enough to close roads schools Ext. just think of what would happen if we have a massive blizzard or snow storm over all of England that left well over a foot of snow for weeks and day time temps remained at or below freezing. such events will happen again and we would be brought to our knees.

[VillagePlank]

What worries me about a website called 'iceagenow' is the very title.

I don't think I should even read it's content simply because of it's name. If it was renamed 'isthereaniceageontheway' or something else conditional then I might make something that could be considered, in some arbitrary context, to be an effort.

The name itself implies that the reading held thereof is only ever going to point to articles, and 'evidence', that procures the namesakes belief. Which, in my opinion, makes it worthless as it will never ever hold a balanced opinion, or heaven-forbid a scientifically evaluated, validated, and peer verified prose.

[Joneseye]

Today even a few inches is enough to close roads schools Ext. just think of what would happen if we have a massive blizzard or snow storm over all of England that left well over a foot of snow for weeks and day time temps remained at or below freezing. such events will happen again and we would be brought to our knees.

Oh dear Daniel. Large areas of North America experience these very conditions every winter and cope admirably with them. Likewise much of Northern Europe does as well and they also cope with such conditions.

The fact is that us humans are quite an adaptable bunch, believe it or not even us poor people living on Blighty are too. The fact is that if you get used to something then you cope with it. If we did start to experience such conditions I am sure that someone would make a fortune selling various cold weather paraphernalia on EBay...

[I can't believe it's not better]

It's truely scary how nobody's falling for this cold guff anymore. Not in our life anyway. Bit worried about my exotics going out with these clear nights though. Uh oh!!! Bit worried about insolence during the day too - wonder if I even want to eat my lettuce sometimes.?!

[SNOW-MAN2006]

well the only answer i can give is just to wait and see. If we get a freezing cold winter with blizzards and frozen river then god help us as heating would be out ,as most of us have not got a fireplace so if the water pipes where to freeze then heating wouldnt work etc. but i think that the cold is retreating back to the arctic poles and then it will expand again over the northern hemisphere and retreat again. There may be another cold winter on the way this year but only time will tell...

SNOW-MAN2006

[drgl]

Oh dear Daniel. Large areas of North America experience these very conditions every winter and cope admirably with them. Likewise much of Northern Europe does as well and they also cope with such conditions.

The fact is that us humans are quite an adaptable bunch, believe it or not even us poor people living on Blighty are too. The fact is that if you get used to something then you cope with it. If we did start to experience such conditions I am sure that someone would make a fortune selling various cold weather paraphernalia on EBay...

Couldn't agree more-it truly is embarrassing how an inch of snow makes this country grind to a halt-they managed in the 60's too you know!!

[Dawlish]

What worries me about a website called 'iceagenow' is the very title.

I don't think I should even read it's content simply because of it's name. If it was renamed 'isthereaniceageontheway' or something else conditional then I might make something that could be considered, in some arbitrary context, to be an effort.

The name itself implies that the reading held thereof is only ever going to point to articles, and 'evidence', that procures the namesakes belief. Which, in my opinion, makes it worthless as it will never ever hold a balanced opinion, or heaven-forbid a scientifically evaluated, validated, and peer verified prose.

I love it when someone talks sense to me! Ice age now is a site where people that want a cold catastrophe gather to glean as much peripheral evidence as possible and post it as true science to support their, frankly, crackpot theories.

Thanks Wilson!

Paul

[noggin]

I love it when someone talks sense to me! Ice age now is a site where people that want a cold catastrophe gather to glean as much peripheral evidence as possible and post it as true science to support their, frankly, crackpot theories.

Thanks Wilson!

Paul

Give it a rest, please. If you don't like the subject, then don't post about it.

Thank you.

[Mondy]

Apologies for this one being a little off topic....

weatherbitez and Mondy, would it be possible to get skip like that when we had that MCS pushing in from France?

I know when we used to mess about on the cb's we used to love storms pushing up from France, use the skip through the storm and talk to folks all over the place, North Spain, Italy, Southern France, and once it passed, Scotland, etc. Admittedly often it would only be one way, but at times, a two way convo could be held.

Never used ham, so just wondered how a storm system like that would effect skip and how far it would allow you to make contact?

Just noticed this. Apologies too. Weatherbitez was taking the urine, SB!

CB is in the 27mhz band grouping. Nothing else. The skip you talk of is actually quite local (compared to the globe) and is actually fairly easy to contact a fellow CB enthusiast using a wet piece of string over a few thousands miles...

What i was talking about was the sunspot ratio of now and the past. (and how they apparently/alledgedly affect our climate) as well as radio propagation. Different, but linked.

A storm system like what you say will do nothing to enhance your coverage on CB or ham (as you should by this stage have unplugged aerials, turned transmitters off and generally stopped power outage as the static build up from a vast storm approaching) ! You naughty boy!

On the other hand, the skip is probably more to do with season (sporadic E etc) than a MCS, and more than likely coincidence..i know of no skip caused by storms, except VHF frequencies..CB isn't VHF

Edited July 12, 2006 by Mondy the clumsy

[Dawlish]

Give it a rest, please. If you don't like the subject, then don't post about it.

Thank you.

On the contrary, noggin, I'm fascinated by the subject. I have been arguing that the crackpots on Iceagenow should be ignored for a long time. It is not just me, in the scientific community, that thinks very little of the site and there is no wonder!

Paul

[VillagePlank]

If you don't like the subject, then don't post about it.

I don't think that a post, related to weather phenomena, posted on a weather devoted forum is likely to catch the interest of those who do not like the subject matter.

I merely posited that the frame of reference for a website that presumes some future catastrophe, regardless of the quality or quantity of material available, is likely to contain a proportionally high bias towards such a terrible event occuring. From this stance, I believe, my opinion is quite appropriate without deviating to a subjective aspect as 'like' or 'don't like' which, as I'm sure you are aware, is irrelevant in the context of any scientific discipline, anyway.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Wilson

[Methuselah]

I love it when someone talks sense to me! Ice age now is a site where people that want a cold catastrophe gather to glean as much peripheral evidence as possible and post it as true science to support their, frankly, crackpot theories.

Thanks Wilson!

Paul

Seconded!

[West is Best]

This post is no differnt from the global warming lobby who keeps telling us week on week that we are warming and trying to feed us with the rubbish

But it is different Daniel. The ice age cometh lobby are wish-casting. The GW community are at least based in fact, however those facts are interpreted.

Edited July 13, 2006 by West is Best

[Osbourne One-Nil]

I don't care what anyone's view is, but how can people deny the world is warming? I really don't get it. Please don't answer....just had to say it.

[Dawlish]

I don't care what anyone's view is, but how can people deny the world is warming? I really don't get it. Please don't answer....just had to say it.

Please don't tell me not to answer. I'm bound to answer if anyone says that.

People still deny that the world is round (Ok, an oblate spheroid). People deny that Elvis is dead (they do, honest, look at the websites!!). People deny they just headbutted somebody with 2 billion witnesses and still protest that they shouldn't get sent off. People deny......Oh I don't know. Somebody would deny any fact that you present them with and continue to believe the exact opposite even though they are so wrong, they could live facing the wrong way, in the wrong house, in the wrong street in a town called Wrongville.

I don't get it either.

Paul

Edited July 13, 2006 by Dawlish

[Mondy]

Do you deny you're from Guess?

[snowsure]

On the contrary, noggin, I'm fascinated by the subject. I have been arguing that the crackpots on Iceagenow should be ignored for a long time. It is not just me, in the scientific community, that thinks very little of the site and there is no wonder!

Paul

Just playing devils advocate here.

Imagine that it is the 1970's and the internet is alive and well. The consesus is that the ice-man cometh. You see, tucked away in the deepest recesses of the world wide web, a site called globalwarmingnow.com

On it, people speak of an impending run away warming cycle due to greenhouse gases, perhaps as a throw-back to the industrial revolution.

Someone then dares to call them crackpots and suggests that it is a site for people who just want to see warming events because they enjoy summer.

Does it sound ridiculous?

Boot, other foot, etc, etc.

PS this type of historical consideration is called "Counterfactual history" so do not discredit the technique please.

[johnholmes]

lovely thought provoking post snowsure

[Dawlish]

Just playing devils advocate here.

Imagine that it is the 1970's and the internet is alive and well. The consesus is that the ice-man cometh. You see, tucked away in the deepest recesses of the world wide web, a site called globalwarmingnow.com

On it, people speak of an impending run away warming cycle due to greenhouse gases, perhaps as a throw-back to the industrial revolution.

Someone then dares to call them crackpots and suggests that it is a site for people who just want to see warming events because they enjoy summer.

Does it sound ridiculous?

Boot, other foot, etc, etc.

PS this type of historical consideration is called "Counterfactual history" so do not discredit the technique please.

Hi Snowsure,

Never would discredit the technique, unless I thought it was wrong. Then I would ignore your request completely and put my reasons why I thought it was wrong! (always my perogative and all that!)

I like hypothetical ideas. They make us think. It doesn't sound ridiculous at all. I've applied it (though I've never heard it called counterfactual history, I just used to call it an alternative scenario, or even, "what if"), when looking at the causes of the WW2 many times and in many other ways. Only troubles are: in 1970, the science of climatology was still in its infancy and nowhere near as many scientists were working in the field; we were in an age without computers and numerical modelling: there wasn't the information that was available at a few touches of a keypad; satellites weren't sending the info we have today...I could go on. My students used to come up with the same ideas in the end, but it did make them think, as it did me.

In 2006, Iceagenow remains a crackpot site; way out in left field as regards mainstream science, despite the interesting approach of asking us to think differently! I know you are playing devil's advocate, but there is nothing wrong with that either! I appreciate the mind game! I would offer long, long, odds on the iceagenow ideas ever coming to fruition in our lifetimes. Their ideas belong in Hollywood and I'll bet that damn film had a part to play in their development and popularity!

Paul

Edited July 13, 2006 by Dawlish

[snowsure]

lovely thought provoking post snowsure

Why thank you John!

I assume your image is of the Jungfrau. Beautiful area. They had some major snow at Mannlichen 2 years ago on the 11th July. Quite unusual and thought provoking!

Snowsure

[johnholmes]

Why thank you John!

I assume your image is of the Jungfrau. Beautiful area. They had some major snow at Mannlichen 2 years ago on the 11th July. Quite unusual and thought provoking!

Snowsure

yep its the Jungfrau.

It can snow above about 6000ft anytime of the year, quite common in June, the early part, less so in July or August but it does happen. Its a beautiful area, fell in love with about 40 years ago.

j

[Snowly does it]

For me, it seems that there are two factors playing in future climatology.

Firstly there is Global Warming. GW is a fact as of right now, temperatures are higher, the trend is obvious and all that needs to be argued about it is why it is happening.

On the other hand are counter factors, things that can/do or might happen to reverse the trend. This is to my mind where the difficulty lies. The scientific community have invested a great deal of effort in convincing governments and people of the GW issue that it is counter-productive for possible cooling influences to be on the table at the same time.

We are warming but there are a number of ways that could change. Are they going to happen? Who knows. But all theories deserve to be argued and considered and if proven to be wrong, then so be it. One person's crackpot is another's visionary. Some crackpots are just that, and others get vey very lucky.

[Dawlish]

For me, it seems that there are two factors playing in future climatology.

Firstly there is Global Warming. GW is a fact as of right now, temperatures are higher, the trend is obvious and all that needs to be argued about it is why it is happening.

On the other hand are counter factors, things that can/do or might happen to reverse the trend. This is to my mind where the difficulty lies. The scientific community have invested a great deal of effort in convincing governments and people of the GW issue that it is counter-productive for possible cooling influences to be on the table at the same time.

We are warming but there are a number of ways that could change. Are they going to happen? Who knows. But all theories deserve to be argued and considered and if proven to be wrong, then so be it. One person's crackpot is another's visionary. Some crackpots are just that, and others get vey very lucky.

Very true, snowmaiden. Well said. That's why, in offering long odds, it contains an element of possibility that the reverse of what I think could be true. Even 100/1 against holds a promise for the crackpots and Foinavon won the Grand National at exactly that price - unfortunately hardly anybody in the UK backed it. The horse just got lucky as every other horse in front of it fell at one fence! If the crackpots get lucky, good luck to them, but far out in left field is where they are at the moment. It is a long way from real science and, in my view, they deserve to be ignored.

Paul

yep its the Jungfrau.

It can snow above about 6000ft anytime of the year, quite common in June, the early part, less so in July or August but it does happen. Its a beautiful area, fell in love with about 40 years ago.

j

Hi john,

The only time I've ever skied was on the Jungfrau glacier on August 25th. We skied on fresh powder snow. What a place. I got so snowblind I had to negotiate the ice caves, on the way back to the train, by touch - being led by a sensibly sunglasses-shod friend!

Paul

Edited July 13, 2006 by Dawlish

[Snowly does it]

Very true, snowmaiden. Well said. That's why, in offering long odds, it contains an element of possibility that the reverse of what I think could be true. Even 100/1 against holds a promise for the crackpots and Foinavon won the Grand National at exactly that price - unfortunately hardly anybody in the UK backed it. The horse just got lucky as every other horse in front of it fell at one fence! If the crackpots get lucky, good luck to them, but far out in left field is where they are at the moment. It is a long way from real science and, in my view, they deserve to be ignored.

Paul

Foinavon was 66/1 wasn't he?

With a lot of these theories that come out against GW I try and look for kernels in the mix - not an expert or anything close, but its always nice to take things back to source and look at that for validity rather than the extrapolation. A few more years study and maybe I'll be able to make some sense of it all, if my Igloo holds up that is!!