Novembers : 62 78 81 86 95

[moses]

This is very depressing for Nov 62

Any thoughts

[Nick F]

Not sure what your getting at ... but looking at that chart it has an Easterly flow over the UK, though not a particuarly cold one, it would have brought cool sunny days with overnight frosts if it was from a dry source - or may have brought low cloud to the East if there was moisture caught in the flow. Can think of far more depressing charts than that.

[Yellowbelly]

Perhaps the point is that a week later we had the first cold plunge. Try the archived chart on Wetterzenrale for 19th November 1962, which would cause at least mild hysteria now. Not the proper start of that legendary winter, but an early taste of what was to come.

[Weather-history]

If you look back at the severe winters from 1890-91 (sub 2C), nearly all were preceded by mild Novembers with the exception of 1962-63 and in some cases very mild ones such as 1939-40, 1946-47, 1978-79

The northerly that followed that easterly on that 1962 chart was colder than that and it brought snowfalls

[moses]

Not sure what your getting at ... but looking at that chart it has an Easterly flow over the UK, though not a particuarly cold one, it would have brought cool sunny days with overnight frosts if it was from a dry source - or may have brought low cloud to the East if there was moisture caught in the flow. Can think of far more depressing charts than that.

Looks like it was the 500 instead of the 850

[mushymanrob]

If you look back at the severe winters from 1890-91 (sub 2C), nearly all were preceded by mild Novembers with the exception of 1962-63 and in some cases very mild ones such as 1939-40, 1946-47, 1978-79

but can very mild novembers be found preceding mild winters too?

[Weather-history]

but can very mild novembers be found preceding mild winters too?

Yes, just look at 1994 and 1997

[Lord of the clouds]

but can very mild novembers be found preceding mild winters too?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that temperature was as important as the wya the pressure was set up [highs and lows].

And is it always the case that the weather patterns will always follow on from previous years set up??

[Snowyowl9]

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119621119.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119781125.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119811128.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119861130.gif

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/19...00119951130.gif

Was there much snow in1978/1981/1986 I can`t remember any myself?

There was severe flooding in Wales nov 1986.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Snowyowl9

[Thundery wintry showers]

1962/63: exceptionally cold (coldest since 1739/40 in CET zone), snowy in east. Spring was near-normal.

1978/79: cold and exceptionally snowy in most parts, with prolonged cold spells and only brief mild interludes, featuring almost every known synoptic setup for snow. Spring 1979 was also cold, with frequent snow in March and again in early May.

1981/82: cold snowy December mainly from N and NE winds, some frontal battleground events, then a very potent easterly in January with snow, severe in places, affecting most of the country. A mild February followed, and the following spring was generally sunny and warm with just occasional brief cold snaps.

1986/87: mostly mild and windy December, just a brief cold snap with snow showers for the north and east before Christmas (which melted in time for Christmas Day in the affected areas). January 1987 contained arguably the coldest easterly of the century, with maxima below -5C in many areas; the strong contrast between cold air and warm sea led to prolonged snow showers, and severe snowstorms in the east. February was quite normal, then spring featured a cold snowy March, a very warm April, and then a wintry start to May.

[West is Best]

If you look back at the severe winters from 1890-91 (sub 2C), nearly all were preceded by mild Novembers with the exception of 1962-63 and in some cases very mild ones such as 1939-40, 1946-47, 1978-79

The northerly that followed that easterly on that 1962 chart was colder than that and it brought snowfalls

But the coldest November of the last 100 years (1985) was followed by a mild December, cold January and extremely cold February (-1.1C). Not only was that November the coldest of the past 100 years, but February 1986 was the coldest February since 1947: even colder than 1963.

It's very surprising to me that no-one ever seems to post about that winter. Nov 1985 was perishing. January 1986 was cold, and then February was just horrific. But bone dry as I recall.

[Nick F]

It's very surprising to me that no-one ever seems to post about that winter. Nov 1985 was perishing. January 1986 was cold, and then February was just horrific. But bone dry as I recall.

Was a notable cold spell in Feb 86 for it's duration and low temps, but brought little snow away from Eastern coasts due to the dry East wind, so probably forgotten in many peoples' minds - as snow tends to bring winter memories rather than record cold and sunny days. Remember pipes freezing up and huge icicles during that spell.

[Weather-history]

It's very surprising to me that no-one ever seems to post about that winter. Nov 1985 was perishing. January 1986 was cold, and then February was just horrific. But bone dry as I recall.

Lol I've written an article about here Richard. Snow was far more frequent during Feb '86 than people seem to remember. It was just the intensity of the falls weren't there

http://www.netweather.tv/forum/index.php?showtopic=34090

Edited November 26, 2006 by Mr_Data

[West is Best]

Lol I've written an article about here Richard. Snow was far more frequent during Feb '86 than people seem to remember. It was just the intensity of the falls weren't there

http://www.netweather.tv/forum/index.php?showtopic=34090

Kevin - thanks for that: brilliant.

It really is the month that put me right off easterlies. I know you mention some snow, but conclude about how dry and cold it was. I can remember crossing to Bruges in Belgium and everything was frozen solid. It was stunning, like something out of an era we just don't see anymore. People talked of the Thames and Medway freezing over. It was as if an enormous can of freeze had been sprayed all over western Europe. It was bitterly bitterly cold.

I notice though that there were not many replies on that thread, and I do think it is one of the great forgotten winters. If you take the liberty of including November, which was also incredibly cold at times for the time of year, and then remember that April was also staggeringly cold: another easterly, it was 6 months of mostly grim cold. Just as November 1985 is the coldest for 100 years, I have a feeling that April 1986 is also the coldest for 100 years? I haven't checked this, but November 1985 to April 1986 must be one of the coldest Nov-Apr periods of modern times? I remember the unlrelenting horror of it, and my delirious delight at catching the flight to Africa on April 17th 2006 to escape the dreadful chill. Argh!

[Snowyowl9]

Was there much snow in Nov 1978/1981/1986 I can`t remember any myself?

I meant in November of those years

[Weather-history]

. Just as November 1985 is the coldest for 100 years, I have a feeling that April 1986 is also the coldest for 100 years? I haven't checked this, but November 1985 to April 1986 must be one of the coldest Nov-Apr periods of modern times?

November 1985 was the coldest November since 1925, and the 6th coldest of the 20th century

April 1986 was the coldest April since 1922 and was the 3rd coldest April of the 20th century

[johnholmes]

but can very mild novembers be found preceding mild winters too?

yes

I will post some data partly to do with this once I've done some checking. It is rather interesting what it seems to show.

John

Edited November 26, 2006 by johnholmes

[Lettucing Gutted]

Below are three types of unusual British winters from the 20th Century:-

1. There are two examples of a cold November proceeding an overall mild winter in respect of the 1960-1991 Central England Temperature (C.E.T) averages which include the following:-

-1919-1920 November 1919 3.3c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 6.0c), December 1919 5.5c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1920 5.2c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c), February 1920 6.0c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c)

-1993-1994 November 1993 4.6c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 6.0c), December 1993 5.5c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1994 5.3c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c). Interestingly February 1994 was slightly below average with a temperature of 3.2c below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c.

2. Below are two examples of a warm February ending an overall cool winter:-

-1981-1982 December 1981 0.3c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1982 2.6c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c), February 1982 4.8c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c)

-1996-1997 December 1996 2.9c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1997 2.5c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c), February 1997 6.7c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c)

3. Below are two examples of an overall cool winter that contained one mild month that was NOT February:-

-1984-1985 December 1984 5.2c (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1985 0.8c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c), Febuary 1985 2.1c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c)

-1995-1996 December 1995 2.3c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 4.3c), January 1996 4.3 (above the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.2c), Febuary 1996 2.5c (below the 1960-1991 C.E.T of 3.3c)

I determined this using the following websites:-

http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~taharley...av_temperat.htm

http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~taharley...ther_months.htm

Edited November 26, 2006 by Craig Evans

[West is Best]

November 1985 was the coldest November since 1925, and the 6th coldest of the 20th century

Yes you're absolutely right Kevin. I missed a key preposition: 'Nov 1985 was the coldest Nov of the last 100 years' i.e. counting back from 2006 to 1925.

[Summer of 95]

What I recall of November 1995 was a frosty, sunny first week with some fog, then a boring mild cloudy spell from about 7th-12th, a brief attempt at a cold snap around 16-18th that never quite came off, then a fortnight of tedious westerlies with showers and mild temps- in other words, almost exactly the same as this month!

The "cold November preceding a mild winter" posts have all omitted the best example I can remember- 1988/89 when November was the coldest month of the winter- the only time since 1919 this has happened. That one was even stranger as the following spring consisted of a very cold April stuck between a very warm March and May.

[Terminal Moraine]

November 1985 was certainly a cold month, here, but couldn't compete with Nov' 1996 for snowfall despite the fact that the latter was a warmer and much wetter month.

8 mornings with lying snow in Nov' 1985 with a max' fall of 5cm, 11 mornings with lying snow in 1996 with a max' fall of 30cm on the 19th.

T.M

[Thundery wintry showers]

I meant in November of those years

Oops, misunderstood that!

November 1978: generally very mild (indeed slightly milder even than November 1994 up to the 24th), then a northerly outbreak set in, bringing wintry showers to the north and west on the 24th-26th, transferring to the north and east on 27th-29th. I think Mr Data included a mention of it in the winter 1978/79 article; there was certainly snow for some.

November 1981: Don't think there was much snow in that month, just the odd transitionary NW'ly (two during the final third) with snow for high ground.

November 1986: another mild one, some snow in upland north-western areas 17th/18th.

November 1995: The cold snap on the 16th-18th delivered heavy thundery wintry showers to northern and eastern Scotland and north-east England, but most other parts stayed dry. Rapidly rising pressure and a more or less straight northerly stopped showers from getting far inland.

I empathise with WIB's points on easterlies; January (25th-27th apart) and March 1996 were the months that put me off them initially, though these days I see wintertime easterlies as a two-faced entity. If there is an inversion aloft they will be dull and dry with a little drizzle, but if the airmass is relatively unstable, sunshine and snow showers, the latter heavy and prolonged in the east, tends to be the result. Troughs moving west from the North Sea are every bit as capable of leaving Britain snowbound as polar lows.

It's worth checking out Kevin's thread on February 1986; some interesting points (including 21 days of falling snow in Manchester!). Looking at the station data on the Met Office site and also Kevin's stats, I get the impression that the easterlies were more unstable in the north than in the south, with 38mm precipitation at Durham and >20 days of lying snow, compared to 10-20mm and 8-15 days over most of south-east England. Sunshine also seemed to be further up to the average in the north-east than in the south-east, while NW England was outstandingly sunny.

[Lettucing Gutted]

November 1952 was also a cold one with a C.E.T of 4.2c. In fact that November together with a cool October 1952 C.E.T of 8.8c and the coldest September 1952 (C.E.T of 10.7c) of the 20th Century make autumn 1952 with a C.E.T of 7.90c the second coldest autumn of the 20th Century in Britain.

There was a 5.1c drop in C.E.T temperatures between the average of 15.8c in August 1952 to 10.7c in September 1952. The following December 1952 was also cold with a C.E.T of 2.8c together with the deadly London Smog.

[Snowyowl9]

November 1978: generally very mild (indeed slightly milder even than November 1994 up to the 24th), then a northerly outbreak set in, bringing wintry showers to the north and west on the 24th-26th, transferring to the north and east on 27th-29th. I think Mr Data included a mention of it in the winter 1978/79 article; there was certainly snow for some.

November 1981: Don't think there was much snow in that month, just the odd transitionary NW'ly (two during the final third) with snow for high ground.

November 1986: another mild one, some snow in upland north-western areas 17th/18th.

Thanks for those,I do remember november 1986 as being very wet indeed as floods happened on the river severn and we had to take a detour on the bus for 3 or 4 days to college,and it was a snowless month here.

[Weather-history]

November 1947 was a remarkable month

In a such memorable year with amazing weather, the November of 1947 is almost virtually overlooked but itself was a remarkable month with large temperature variations in a short space of time.

The month began very mild with tropical maritime air pumping up over the UK with maxima into the mid teens

The month became much colder with snowfalls and severe frosts mid-month

With a snow cover and slack gradients, the 19th was a very cold night over Scotland with a minimum of -17.2C recorded at Dalwhinnie but the following day, tropical maritime air flooded NEwards on the 20th and it became exceptionally mild with 17.2C recorded at Dunoon and Hawarden. The following 2 days were exceptionally mild as high as 18.3C due to the fohn effect at Hawarden and Llandudno

But on the 24th, the colder Arctic airflow was back and it became cold again with frosts and wintry showers and it remained cold to the end of the month

Data for November 1947

CET: 7.2 (+1.0)

Highest CET daily maximum: 15.3C (1st)

Lowest CET daily maximum: 1.9C (30th)

Highest CET daily minimum: 13.5C (22nd)

Lowest CET daily minimum: -3.2C (27th, 28th)

9th-12th: 12.1C

17th-19th: 1.9C

21st-23rd: 13.8C

26th-30th: 0.7C

19th November lowest min: -17.2C

20th November highest max: 17.2C