'Earth Energies' What, if at all, are they?

[Gray-Wolf]

So Good folk of NetWeather land what is it all about?

I first heard of Ley lines from some 'Hippy Dippy' tales of Stonehenge.

I then heard of Ley lines (lines of power) from some Wiccans.

I then heard 'Van Daniken' say they were 'propulsion lines' that spacecraft utilised.

I then read about 'Earthlights' and there supposed association with 'Ley Lines'.

I then read reasearch into fault line stresses that proposed that when Quartz chrystals were under considerable pressure (compression or tension) emited both energy and 'light' and that 'Earthlights were commonly sighted near Earthquake zones/fault lines just before an 'event' in the region (i.e. whilst the rock are under tension/compression).

I then heard of 'Feng Shui' which also propposed 'Earth energy' flowing through the land making some places 'good' to live over and some places 'Bad' to live over.

Which made me think again about 'Ley Lines' ,about Good/White Leys and Blackleys and whether 'Earth Energies' are quantifiable in effect on the human condition in the ways Living near a Substation/Microwave mast/Overhead Pylon are.

So what do you make of it all?

Is it Hokum or is it Science fact?

Is it the earths electromagnetic lines of force penetrating/emiting from the crust ,along the 'course of least resistance', as they head to the planets core or just so much 'Hogwash'?

Is it a benign 'flow' or has it the potential for short-term disruptive phases?

Edited March 1, 2007 by Gray-Wolf

[Methuselah]

In a word, GW - hokum!

[Gray-Wolf]

Morning Pete!,

you intermittent poster you!!! Have you got a life or something these days???

I can't be so dismissive so swiftly (though I'm sure you've had opportunity to mull the subject over at your leisure).

When I do the 'magnet, paper ,iron filings thing the 'lines of force 'stop' at the magnet but they don't do they? If we could plot them into the magnet (and its core) we would see the 'external lines' run through into the magnet.

The same must occur with the Earths magnetic field don'tcha think? If so then surely, if there are 'easy ways' through the crust and into the mantle/core the force lines will 'focus' on these weaknesses. If the rock is Fe rich then maybe the magnetic anomaly produced will also 'concentrate' the lines of our magnetic field through them better.

If modern science, with the help of modified helmets, can 'force' effects on a subject by putting various frequencies/intensities of electromagnetic energy through the helmet (from 'visions' to hallucinations) then surely 'wild' energies can produce the same?

All Stone Circles/Ring Dyke features are within 1km of a 'fault line'. Was the fault ,and its possible 'concentration of electromagnetic energy' part of the reason for the sighting of the structure? can weird $hit happen to humans whilst in the region if our magnetic field is being 'energized' by solar activity?

The other thing that strikes me is my basic understanding of electricity. If you have a current flow, unless superconductors are the medium, resistance produces heat. Most of our 'field lines' re-enter the planet around the Poles. Where is global warming at it's greatest?

[jethro]

At the risk of sounding like a complete loon, I truely believe there is something in the theory, quite how or why it works is another matter. I read The Old Straight Track years ago when it was first published, my interest in energy paths, particularly magnectics was prompted by my strange quirk of breaking watches; ever since I can remember, wrist watches, whatever type always, always stop working within a few days of my wearing them-I gave up trying to find one which didn't years ago.

Anyway, ley lines etc. About ten years ago me and my family moved from North Yorks down to Somerset, bought a beautiful Grade II 17thc cottage with about an acre of land, chocolate box perfect, we were in heaven. We're all outdoorsie, hale and hearty types yet within a few weeks we all began to suffer from a complete lack of energy, blinding headaches, aching, swollen joints, skin conditions, stomach bugs; a long list of ailments. Friends and family who came, would within a few hours be complaining of the same things-providing they hadn't already fallen asleep. We had the new boiler checked thinking it might be carbon monoxide, the entire brand new heating system taken apart and checked. We had a Radon survey-the area is known to have high levels. Everything we could think of, we had checked by experts and it turned up nothing. Then the real fun began. Light bulbs would blow within days, never lasting more than a month. Appliances just stopped working, even though they were all new with the move as our last ones had been fitting. The electric board checked the system even though it had been completely re-wired a couple of years previously, they checked for power spikes&surges-nothing. A long list of personal losses followed on from this, until it reached the point that I truely thought either we or the house was jinxed or going mad, or both. Being just down the road from Glastonbury I started trawling around for every alternative therapy going, spoke to many "healers" of one sort or another who instead of taking my money and solving nothing, all shook their heads and referred me elsewhere. Eventually, I was referred by a practising Wiccan in Glastonbury, to The Wells Diocese who instead of laughing or shrugging their shoulders, sent a Vicar to the house. His role within the church is to deal with this type of problem and although they don't advertise the fact, it is apparently quite common. He explained that the house sat upon a ley line, something I hadn't even thought of; in the intervening years since reading about them I had completely forgotten about them. He also added that some people are more susceptible to their influence and can magnify their intensity, me being one hence the watch problem and sometimes extensive work above and below the ground may interrupt or disturb the energy and can create the type of problems we had been having-the house had been derelict for years and had been completely renovated shortly before we moved in. His remedy was to cleanse and bless every room and person, a rite more akin to a Wican/Pagan rite than C of E. Did it work? Kind of, in as much as it lifted the burden of "are we going mad" but other than that, I'm not sure it made any difference. We sold up and moved, all the ailments and problems stopped when we moved out. As we only moved a couple of miles away it is easy to keep an ear open for who lives where and since we moved out 7 years ago, no one has stayed more than about 18 months. Since then I've heard of other very similar tales from many others who live in that village, some have given up as we did, others have stayed and apparently after a few years things settle down.

Is it all Hokum? Prior to this experience, I'd have said it was whatever anyone wanted to believe it was, now...I'd say just because you can't see it, touch it, smell it, explain it, bottle it and sell it, even though science has no theory for it, there really is something in it.

[Bobby]

Complete nonsense me thinks. Apart from the Earthlights thing perhaps, I've heard about that before as a possible explanation for some UFO sightings. Sounds plausible to me.

There's no doubt that strong magnetic fields can affect our bodies and minds, but they have to be much more intense than what the Earth gives off. Don't see any reason to believe in Ley Lines. There definitely is a lot of 'confusion' over magnetism and other forms of radiation, because it seems ethereal and mysterious, but they are actually very well understood phenonomen. Nothing mysterious about them at all in the eyes of science.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Magpie

[parmenides3]

Ley lines & the like might be an example of people observing patterns (or perceiving that they may exist) in the world around them and trying to find an explanation which fits. This raises some questions; are the patterns really there, or are they accidents which we have picked up on? If there are such patterns, is there a social, geological or topological explanation which can explain them? If there are patterns and there is no clear explanation for them in the obvious, what alternative explanations are credible or reasonable?

It is a long-standing human tradition to try and make sense of the world, and to offer possible explanations for apparent phenomena. Sometimes the phenomena are imagined or exaggerated by our perception/psychological inclinations. Sometimes the phenomena exist, but the pattern they form is a human superimposition rather than a real, independent 'shape'. Sometimes, rarely, there appear to be patterns which are real, which don't appear to have a causal agency. Responses can vary from the magical/mystical (or religious), to the pseudo-scientific, to the rational/scientific. Which sort of answer you prefer to respond to depends very much on your pre-existing ideas about how the world is constructed, and you attitude to the three 'ways of seeing' mentioned above.

Is there a 'best' way to make sense of such phenomena? For each prejudice, there is a value judgment; we place the most value on the explanation which best suits us. To others, who have a different viewpoint, our decision will always be 'irrational', or 'wrong', or 'misguided'.

This isn't an answer, sorry, G-W.

:)P

[Methuselah]

I saw a fancy diagram once, that purported to show the layout of leylines...To me it looked strikingly as if someone had drawn geometricallly straight lines between a variety of ancient monuments.

Can one not draw a straight line between any two points on a map - or am I missing something?

The "wisdon of the ancients", perhaps? A canny bunch, those ancients, eh??

[jethro]

Ley lines & the like might be an example of people observing patterns (or perceiving that they may exist) in the world around them and trying to find an explanation which fits. This raises some questions; are the patterns really there, or are they accidents which we have picked up on? If there are such patterns, is there a social, geological or topological explanation which can explain them? If there are patterns and there is no clear explanation for them in the obvious, what alternative explanations are credible or reasonable?

Agreed P3 to a certain extent. The problems/events I described were very much real, not perceived; it wasn't a frame of mind or that any of us were inclined to believe in unexplained phenomena, not a dippy hippy thing. It happened. The Ley line theory proposed by the Vicar was one of many ideas mooted by numerous people, all of which were considered but all could be applied to any house/site/person/time, only the Ley Line theory tied the phenomena to the problem to that house, that time and everyone who spent any time there. As we'd never experienced anything like this before, it seemed the most likely, however implausible explaination if one were to be found. Absolutely, we were seeking an answer, it was a dream house. Do you or anyone else have any other ideas why we experienced the problems we did? Incidentally, the same appliances when moved to our current house have had no problems since. I'm open to any ideas. Ditto the watch problem, why do they stop when I wear them? Analogue, digital, battery and wind up all do the same, always have. Any clues?

[pottyprof]

Hi Pete.. nice to see you here..

Most ley lines, especially ancient leys, do have important monuments along their length. These could be hill forts, stone circles, burial grounds and lakes. The way I see then is as a mapping system. In most cases they show a line of sight between at least 2 of the markers. They appear to be in straight lines for one reason and that is the shortest distance between 2 points. There is some evidence that dowsers can pick up energies from ley lines but depending on your opinion of dowsing, this could be a psychological effect..

Great subject GW..

[parmenides3]

Jethro, the simple answer is no. No theories. But the Lay line hypothesis is only one potential answer. At the moment, it's the only one you have, and you're happy to accept it in the absence of an alternative, but that doesn't mean there isn't (or won't come to be) a different explanation. A Feng Shui master might tell you that the house is sighted on the head of a dragon, by which we'll understand that it's a sh*t location, 'energy'-wise (and we won't assume that it is literally a dragon the master refers to, but a metaphor for the force that the Chinese perceive flowing throughout all of nature).

Clearly, you've tried to find a rational explanation and so far it hasn't worked, so there's no suggestion that you're a fruitcake, but, in both directions, I'd still say keep an open mind.

Side note. (some of you won't be surprised). For many years I studied the supernatural, magic & the occult, as well as Eastern mysticism & philosophy. I am happy to admit that not all phenomena have a rational explanation, and also happy to work with the idea of invisible energy/forces, even though this is anti-rational and potentially animistic, but my 'take' on each of these is probably not a simple one. Let's say for the time being that I am convinced in the real (affective) power of the beliefs that people have. One consequence of this may be to admit that our minds, and their capacities, are underestimated, and that there might be something to the Jungian conception of the collective unconscious (though not as Jung describes it).

It's interesting that the vicar was so happy to go with the ley line theory - I'm wondering how he squared that with the Christian worldview?

:)P

[Gray-Wolf]

I saw a fancy diagram once, that purported to show the layout of leylines...To me it looked strikingly as if someone had drawn geometrically straight lines between a variety of ancient monuments.

Can one not draw a straight line between any two points on a map - or am I missing something?

The "wisdom of the ancients", perhaps? A canny bunch, those ancients, eh??

I find it very hard to find 'straight lines ' in nature. Chrystal Faces/Facets are one (but not on the atomic level and polygonal Mud cracks/permafrost structures are the best I can do. Even Watkins 'straight tracks ' aren't straight to my eyes so I don't personally believe in 'Ley lines' in the sense of the 'old straight track' but 'linear features' are not necessarily 'straight' (take any 'line of best fit' on a graph, it is a human construct to help us 'recognise' trends. Fault lines 'trend' in a direction but are not 'straight')

EDIT; Right ,caught up with you all! P3 funny that Feng Shui takes a more sepentine view of energy allowing us to move away from 'Straight lines'. Our own culture goes in for 'dragons/worms' which are more curvy in nature!

I do believe in the Earths electro-magnetic field and I do believe that this is an energy which both varies and affects us (to greater and lesser degrees). We all carry our own 'energy' in the form of measurable 'electrical energy'. Iain McCaskill used to do his forcasts 'barefoot' as his own level of 'electro-magnetic energy' messed up the computer graphics and so 'earthing' himself (by removing rubber soles) solved the problem......I can see him now 'panting' out a forcast in his socks!!

Edited March 2, 2007 by Gray-Wolf

[jethro]

It's interesting that the vicar was so happy to go with the ley line theory - I'm wondering how he squared that with the Christian worldview?

:)P

[Azores Hi]

What a great subject.

Just to throw my two penniies worth in. Is it true that some animals use the earth's magnetic field to navigate? I'm thinking bird migration and marine mammals here. I'm certain that it has at least been proposed as a hypothesis.

If true then is it not then plausable that lay lines have been detected and used as means for navigation by ancient man and that we have lost this knowledge, just like most of us have lost the knowledge of hunting and lighting fires? Could it be that the modern theories of lay lines have just been romanticised over time to the point of folklore when all they ever were, was a practical use of a skill long lost. Maybe Ray Mears will find the answers?lol

Sorry more questions than answers but food for thought.

Edited March 2, 2007 by azores hi

[Gray-Wolf]

What a great subject.

Just to throw my two pennies worth in. Is it true that some animals use the earth's magnetic field to navigate? I'm thinking bird migration and marine mammals here. I'm certain that it has at least been proposed as a hypothesis.

If true then is it not then plausible that lay lines have been detected and used as means for navigation by ancient man and that we have lost this knowledge, just like most of us have lost the knowledge of hunting and lighting fires? Could it be that the modern theories of lay lines have just been romanticized over time to the point of folklore when all they ever were, was a practical use of a skill long lost. Maybe Ray Mears will find the answers?lol

Sorry more questions than answers but food for thought.

I there is such an 'energy' we haven't 'lost the knowledge' but it has been 'drowned out' by all the other things that now impact our senses (if whales can become lost/confused because of the 'noise' we have created in the oceans what chance do we have?).

That said ,it doesn't necessarily follow that the 'energy' doesn't affect our 'being' on a day to day level (or the other 'man made 'fields' we contend with!!)

We also have grains of magnetite deep within our brains and one of the 'northern universities' (UMIST I think) ran tests by blindfolding folk, driving them around , and asking them to point North, most did.

EDIT; I don't wear watches because they 'don't work' right well on me either! I think it does have something to do with your own personal levels of 'static' that you carry (folk working on P.C.'s wear 'earthing strips' to stop any interference with 'sensitive' components)

EDIT,EDIT; Don't forget we are as much 'electrical' driven as we are 'chemical' driven. Just because we've messed around with chemical manipulation of our bodies for Eons doesn't mean we can't do the same with Electricity/electromagnetic fields!

Edited March 2, 2007 by Gray-Wolf

[Rustynailer]

Hi,

I think we interact with these electromagnetic fields/lines without actually realising.

Once perhaps this interaction would have been noticeable. Maybe our ancestors interacting with these electromagnetic fields/lines changed things directly related to their lives, like the weather for crops and animals, or as been suggested locally, even the sea state, with the invocation of storms, the chalk ridge across the middle of the Isle of Wight is known to some as the Dragons back, when an enemy appeared on the sea the dragon was invoked and the sea went into a rough state pretty quick.

For some reason somebody a long time ago decided that they didn't like it so basically gave up the study of it. Or destroyed the controls.

So now we hardly know a thing about it and what we do know we only think we know. That's my speculative view anyway

Sarcen stones are a great interest to me, i have with friends found several large ones of many tons in weight on the IOW b/w

Regards

[Gray-Wolf]

I do believe the developed world lives in a very 'confused' version of normality both in the way the materially live but also the way modern technology 'impacts/mimics' natural phenomena that used to form a 'background ' to our life.

In another 10 or so generations we may begin to realise the costs ,to each of us, of living in a world surrounded by strong electromagnetic fields.

In our 'primitive' past lightning and Aurora's were are only 'experiences' of such things (and maybe the 'effects' of the electromagnetic field as it passed into the earth). Today the air is full of Radio/microwave energy, our homes are filled with electromagnetic fields surrounding each 'live' cable or working appliance (imagine the field from a washing machine on a spin cycle or in front of the old cathode Ray tube).

In our home we use S.C.E.N.A.R. machines to manage both Luke's conditions and my own challenges and have found it incredibly effective in it's working allowing our own bodies to 'order' any 'disorders' we have.

S.C.E.N.A.R. is a device which 'monitors', reproduces, modulates and re-sends the tiny electrical impulses that help 'drive' the bodies 'systems'.

If we find such impact and influence on our health and sense of wellbeing from 'guided use' of electro-magnetic energy then what the heck is the 'unguided' electro-magnetism doing to us on this micro scale???

[Gray-Wolf]

In Hebden Bridge and the surrounding area there have been a lot of UFO sightings (remember the copper that was 'abducted' in Todmorden?) but we are in a 'Millstone Grit' area (lots of Quartz) that is heavily faulted by the Caledonian Orogeny. The rivers (Hebden water and Colden water feeding the Calder) pick out the major 'fault lines' but many smaller ones (trending in line or at 90 degrees) riddle the area. Maybe the various gravitational 'pulls' (sun and moon being the major ones) put stresses and strains across the fault surfaces leading to the Quartz releasing light and energy leading to the 'phenomina'.

How would folk from the stone age view these effects? The 'Bride stones' (uplifted millstone grit 'bluff') are named after 'Brid', the Celtic Goddess, I wonder if the witnessing of earthlights from this faulted area (2 or 3 miles from where plod was 'nicked' from) led to these rocks being marked out as special?

[BARRY]

I'm open to any ideas. Ditto the watch problem, why do they stop when I wear them? Analogue, digital, battery and wind up all do the same, always have. Any clues?

my watches do the same except for the plastic one's, could be to much static electricity in the body,

which might i say might, make people more susceptible to electromagnetic Fields

[Gray-Wolf]

my watches do the same except for the plastic one's, could be to much static electricity in the body,

which might i say might, make people more susceptible to electromagnetic Fields

You would think so wouldn't you? If you already have quite a well developed 'E.M.F.' around you then any competing field would 'drive' current flows in you.

We could also involve positive and negative 'ionic' charging of the environment here (-ve ionic anomaly by the sea side/waterfalls rising moon etc., +ve before storms).

We already know from research the the speed of electrical exchange across a synapse is faster in a +ve ionic environment and slower in a -ve ionic environment but how does that effect us?

Folk moan about headaches prior to the onset of a storm so do faster exchanges 'overload' the 'circuitry' in our brains?

People are more 'chill' in a -ve ionic environment, could this reflect the slower rates of information exchange in our heads???

The 'energies ' within our environment (naturally produced) must be both measurable and of impact to the human systems so why don't folk wish to consider them more 'scientifically' rather than lumping them in on the 'parapsychology' side of things?

[Rustynailer]

In Hebden Bridge and the surrounding area there have been a lot of UFO sightings (remember the copper that was 'abducted' in Todmorden?) but we are in a 'Millstone Grit' area (lots of Quartz) that is heavily faulted by the Caledonian Orogeny. The rivers (Hebden water and Colden water feeding the Calder) pick out the major 'fault lines' but many smaller ones (trending in line or at 90 degrees) riddle the area. Maybe the various gravitational 'pulls' (sun and moon being the major ones) put stresses and strains across the fault surfaces leading to the Quartz releasing light and energy leading to the 'phenomina'.

How would folk from the stone age view these effects? The 'Bride stones' (uplifted millstone grit 'bluff') are named after 'Brid', the Celtic Goddess, I wonder if the witnessing of earthlights from this faulted area (2 or 3 miles from where plod was 'nicked' from) led to these rocks being marked out as special?

Perhaps the Policeman was "sensitive" when in this area at the time, when everything appeared normal to most people passing through the same area. The policeman however, probably underwent some kind of electromagnetically stimulated hallucination....Leading to him thinking he was abducted by aliens.

Russ

[Gray-Wolf]

Perhaps the Policeman was "sensitive" when in this area at the time, when everything appeared normal to most people passing through the same area. The policeman however, probably underwent some kind of electromagnetically stimulated hallucination....Leading to him thinking he was abducted by aliens.

Russ

Sadly his 'abduction tale' was recounted under hypnosis and so I must discount it. He had a 'time loss' and was 250m up the road from the sighting when he 'came too' so it could've been some brain 'short circuiting' if his car was 'hit' with a ball of 'earth light' emanating from the fault below (he was traveling off the A646 heading towards Burley). It finished his career (laughing stock) so it had a negative effect on his 'being'!

Strangely cattle get moved, overnight, from one side of this valley to the other much to the bemusement of the farmers. Anyone who has 'driven cattle' will know that, overnight, this is no mean feat!!!

[Rustynailer]

There is a church in Godshill about 5 miles from here, it has an interesting tale about it from "long ago"

The parishioners decided to build the church at the bottom of the hill, so started building there, the next day they were shocked to find all their work transferred to the top of the hill. This went on for a few times each morning all the stones were moved back up to the top of the hill. In the end they gave up and built the church on top of the hill. The town has been called Godshill ever since.

Regards,

Russ

Edited March 4, 2007 by Rustynailer

[BARRY]

this is an interesting site

ley lines

Edited March 4, 2007 by BARRY

[Gray-Wolf]

this is an interesting site

ley lines

Thanks Barry. the section on 'geophysical stresses' looks interesting. Of course it is 'glitzed up' with new age terminology but somewhere at it's core is what I've been trying to delve into.

My use of scenar has alerted me to the miniscule 'drivers' that can have a large manifest impact on the body and it's 'functioning'. If there is a 'positive' then, seeing as nature likes balence, there must be a negative. People complain about lukemia clusters associated with high voltage sub-stations against properties so why not the long term exposure (especially during our 7hrs of inactivity whilst sleeping) to low intensity fields?.

The other thing scenar has shown me is how quickly the body (and memory) habitulalises to it's current state. The first 'high' I got from Scenar made me feel like a teen again, sadly I got used to it (habitualised to my 'new' settings) and it was only it's close proximity to the 'me' beforehand that made the 'change' so dramatic to experience.

A slow onset of negative impacts would only 'declare' itself when the person 'crashed' from their overall disfunction allowing in disease.

There is a church in Godshill about 5 miles from here, it has an interesting tale about it from "long ago"

The parishioners decided to build the church at the bottom of the hill, so started building there, the next day they were shocked to find all their work transferred to the top of the hill. This went on for a few times each morning all the stones were moved back up to the top of the hill. In the end they gave up and built the church on top of the hill. The town has been called Godshill ever since.

Regards,

Russ

There are a few 'folk tales' about the devil moving stones/demolishing buildings that were destined for churches . Many 'old' churches are atop of old pagan sites of worship (on instruction from Pope Gregory III?) so many 'old' traditions remain 'interwoven' with the christian tales. In such tales 'the devil' is generally the old religion and its powers.

[jethro]

As an aside but vaguely connected, I used to get quite a lot of lower back pain, made worse by heavy work and digging (I'm a gardener by trade), the most effective thing I've ever found to alieviate it, other than taking pain killers all the time, are magnets. I've got a couple of velcro backed pads which contain magnets, they slip inside your clothes over the tender spot and strangely enough, they really work for me. I'd recommend them to anyone who would rather not take pain killers regularly.