Flood damage reports.

[Theddlethorpe Snow]

How Doo TS - do you work for East Lindsey by any chance?

How did you guess?

Has been a busy few days for us especially with the Wainfleet situation last night.

[johnholmes]

Hi there all. I don't post much, but thought tonight would be a good time.

Best wishes to all those affected in Gloucester and the surrounding areas and I really hope everything calms down. As an ex Cotswolder, born and bred I know the areas really well and can only sympathise. We have been hit here in Lincolnshire again for the second time in as many weeks and I have been heavily involved with sandbagging those affected. Thankfully it seems to have calmed down here and I am hoping Wednesday's rain doesn't drop to much on us as the land is so saturated and the dykes and rivers cannot take much more. If anyone can give me a heads up for the amount of rain expected I would be most grateful as it will help me plan the shift patterns for the lads.

Take care all.

I try and post as needed to help, but if its not included your area by all means pm me I'm happy to try and help

[Just Before Dawn]

How did you guess?

Has been a busy few days for us especially with the Wainfleet situation last night.

Your lads did a hell of a job, not just this weekend, but last month as well. I sit on the Lindsey Marsh Drainage Board, so I'll pop in tomorrow and find out what they've been told.

[monkeyuk]

no Trickey/Jane/and no monkey uk since friday

maybe Janes lost power....now

Hi Dogs32 - i'm back online now. Took 4.5 hours to travel along the golden valley on friday night. House almost flooded and lost my broadband (hence only back now). Hope everyone else on here from the area is ok.

Water has dried up in Abbeydale/Abbeymead in Gloucester apparently. Water Tanks already seen in area. I'm ok still in Longlevens but worried about the potential loss of power!

[turna]

sorry to be slightly off topic but going to a campsite at Hurley Lock Near Henley on Thames next sunday and was wondering if it has been badly affected or is due to be? . A flood warning has been issued, but we were under a severe warning last time and had nothing..any help gratefully rec'd..

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

I am very worried about some of the advice on here regarding water. I'm not a water expert, but I would dispute the idea that rainwater is sterile, and I would strongly urge people not to drink from water butts (not saying that anyone on here would, but it's worth mentioning) as stagnant water can be bacteriologically nasty. With the amount of sewage in the water, allied to the warm temperatures, care must be taken not to allow any floodwater to enter the body via nose or mouth, as many bacteria that cause very severe gastric illnesses like nothing better than sewage-ridden water in which to multiply.

The sheer scale of this seems rather overwhelming to see in the papers and on TV news - why the Government haven't declared a national emergency I don't know. This seems to be exacerbated by the lack of troops at home to render assistance. Regrettably, Mr Cameron seems to be using this dreadful situation as a means of scoring political points - why he thinks that he should hamper rescue efforts by visiting affected areas to be photographed striding through flood water in his wellies when even the PM realised that the situation required him to be in Westminster and that sending Hilary Benn was probably better is also beyond my comprehension. What good is the guy doing asking for an enquiry this early? That should be left for much, much later, after the floods have receded and people are safe and rehoused.

[Just Before Dawn]

The sheer scale of this seems rather overwhelming to see in the papers and on TV news - why the Government haven't declared a national emergency I don't know. This seems to be exacerbated by the lack of troops at home to render assistance. Regrettably, Mr Cameron seems to be using this dreadful situation as a means of scoring political points - why he thinks that he should hamper rescue efforts by visiting affected areas to be photographed striding through flood water in his wellies when even the PM realised that the situation required him to be in Westminster and that sending Hilary Benn was probably better is also beyond my comprehension. What good is the guy doing asking for an enquiry this early? That should be left for much, much later, after the floods have receded and people are safe and rehoused.

To be honest, we don't work that way anymore. The Government placed disaster relief in the hands of Local Authorities, Angencies and the Voluntary sector and I don't think anyone is really complaining about the performances of those bodies I've mentioned - there's no equivalent in the UK to FEMA in the US, therefore there's not Government Dept to lead on matters of national civil emergencies. Perhaps there should be. As for politics, well, were it ever thus.

[turna]

I am very worried about some of the advice on here regarding water. I'm not a water expert, but I would dispute the idea that rainwater is sterile, and I would strongly urge people not to drink from water butts (not saying that anyone on here would, but it's worth mentioning) as stagnant water can be bacteriologically nasty. With the amount of sewage in the water, allied to the warm temperatures, care must be taken not to allow any floodwater to enter the body via nose or mouth, as many bacteria that cause very severe gastric illnesses like nothing better than sewage-ridden water in which to multiply.

The sheer scale of this seems rather overwhelming to see in the papers and on TV news - why the Government haven't declared a national emergency I don't know. This seems to be exacerbated by the lack of troops at home to render assistance. Regrettably, Mr Cameron seems to be using this dreadful situation as a means of scoring political points - why he thinks that he should hamper rescue efforts by visiting affected areas to be photographed striding through flood water in his wellies when even the PM realised that the situation required him to be in Westminster and that sending Hilary Benn was probably better is also beyond my comprehension. What good is the guy doing asking for an enquiry this early? That should be left for much, much later, after the floods have receded and people are safe and rehoused.

This is not a political forum, however to set the record straight gordy is visiting the affected areas tommorrow. I am sure he will make a great difference to those poor people.

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

To be honest, we don't work that way anymore. The Government placed disaster relief in the hands of Local Authorities, Angencies and the Voluntary sector and I don't think anyone is really complaining about the performances of those bodies I've mentioned - there's no equivalent in the UK to FEMA in the US, therefore there's not Government Dept to lead on matters of national civil emergencies. Perhaps there should be. As for politics, well, were it ever thus.

Well, as I'm a Brit like you, I don't know who FEMA are! I agree that it's all been decentralised, but surely common sense must show that this is exceptional and that national Government must do more than to ask Benn to say a few words and the PM to say that the Local Authorities are getting the money they need. There needs to be more coordinated action. As you say, when it comes to the political stuff, nothing's new, but IMO to turn this into a PR opportunity by demanding a public enquiry whilst people are still being rescued and whilst many thousands face dangers from enteric diseases such as typhoid and possibly even cholera if the water situation isn't sorted quickly with regards to a clean supply is tasteless, tactless and a poor reflection on Cameron. I hoped that he might have been a halfway decent man, but this, unfortunately, would suggest otherwise.

Let us just hope that the potential effects of this are not as great as they could potentially be. Best of British luck to those in difficulty, and let's hope that we are more prepared next time.

[SnowBear]

I am very worried about some of the advice on here regarding water. I'm not a water expert, but I would dispute the idea that rainwater is sterile, and I would strongly urge people not to drink from water butts (not saying that anyone on here would, but it's worth mentioning) as stagnant water can be bacteriologically nasty. With the amount of sewage in the water, allied to the warm temperatures, care must be taken not to allow any floodwater to enter the body via nose or mouth, as many bacteria that cause very severe gastric illnesses like nothing better than sewage-ridden water in which to multiply.

The sheer scale of this seems rather overwhelming to see in the papers and on TV news - why the Government haven't declared a national emergency I don't know. This seems to be exacerbated by the lack of troops at home to render assistance. Regrettably, Mr Cameron seems to be using this dreadful situation as a means of scoring political points - why he thinks that he should hamper rescue efforts by visiting affected areas to be photographed striding through flood water in his wellies when even the PM realised that the situation required him to be in Westminster and that sending Hilary Benn was probably better is also beyond my comprehension. What good is the guy doing asking for an enquiry this early? That should be left for much, much later, after the floods have receded and people are safe and rehoused.

I gave the advice to drink rainwater, if you read my post properly, I said to collect rainwater in CLEAN pots and pans, with more rain forecast, this would seem sensible and a way to be able to cook and wash with that water. You CAN drink rainwater, as long as it is fresh, in no place in my post did I say go lapping it up from a water butt though, although in extreme emergencies you can providing it is boiled or chemically sterilised properly before hand (see attached word document to my initial post). Rainwater is pretty much sterile, it is evaporated, then condensed in the atmosphere, it only becomes contaminated once it reaches the ground etc.

If you were living off the land, or in the army on the move, or in an emergency situation (which this is yes?) how would you make or get clean water?? Basic survival techniques, and rainwater is one of the most important things to collect but must be done properly.

[Jane Louise]

Hi Dogs32 - i'm back online now. Took 4.5 hours to travel along the golden valley on friday night. House almost flooded and lost my broadband (hence only back now). Hope everyone else on here from the area is ok.

Water has dried up in Abbeydale/Abbeymead in Gloucester apparently. Water Tanks already seen in area. I'm ok still in Longlevens but worried about the potential loss of power!

Hi monkeyuk

Sorry to hear of your troubles hope everything works out ok for you.I haven't heard from dogs or the others yet,so not sure if dogs or anyone else has lost power.I have been trying to ring and text my daughter in Cheltenham to see if she is okay but I can't get any answer from her,so i'm a bit worried .I am not sure who has lost power yet.I have my candles at the ready and we still have water here.

[03jtrickey]

Hi Dogs,

I'm still here, just been away more today... we fortunately still have water running and power for the moment. Sympathy to the worst affected areas of Gloucester and Tewkesbury without power and soon to be without water! It's never just one thing lol!

[Just Before Dawn]

Well, as I'm a Brit like you, I don't know who FEMA are! I agree that it's all been decentralised, but surely common sense must show that this is exceptional and that national Government must do more than to ask Benn to say a few words and the PM to say that the Local Authorities are getting the money they need. There needs to be more coordinated action. As you say, when it comes to the political stuff, nothing's new, but IMO to turn this into a PR opportunity by demanding a public enquiry whilst people are still being rescued and whilst many thousands face dangers from enteric diseases such as typhoid and possibly even cholera if the water situation isn't sorted quickly with regards to a clean supply is tasteless, tactless and a poor reflection on Cameron. I hoped that he might have been a halfway decent man, but this, unfortunately, would suggest otherwise.

Let us just hope that the potential effects of this are not as great as they could potentially be. Best of British luck to those in difficulty, and let's hope that we are more prepared next time.

Sorry, I should have been clearer - FEMA is the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the US Government Agency which co-ordinates the Government response in National Emergencies.

I'm not sure what 'declaring a national emergency' would achieve - The Police, Fire and Rescue, Health Protection Agency are all regional agencies and Local Authorities have the Kit - other than providing money, the Government doesn't actually have much more to offer at this point. I noted that the Gloucestershire, Hereford & Worcester Emergency Planning Teams had activated their 'Gold Command', so they've declared an area wide state of emergency anyway and that gives them the power to co-opt whatever Military assistance they need or can be spared. They've also asked for, and received outside assistance -I know colleagues in Lincolnshire are providing extra sandbags and sand to Oxfordshire, and no doubt others are doing the same. They seem to be co-ordinating necessary relief with a great deal of skill, which is probably all the National Government would do.

As it happens, I think there is the need to consider a National Emergency Planning Agency. We used to have one (The Civil Defence Corps) but it was pensioned off under Callaghan's government and wound up by Thatcher for being too critical of her Governments civil defence plans in the early 80's. Perhaps it's time to re-consider.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Just Before Dawn

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

I gave the advice to drink rainwater, if you read my post properly, I said to collect rainwater in CLEAN pots and pans, with more rain forecast, this would seem sensible and a way to be able to cook and wash with that water. You CAN drink rainwater, as long as it is fresh, in no place in my post did I say go lapping it up from a water butt though, although in extreme emergencies you can providing it is boiled or chemically sterilised properly before hand (see attached word document to my initial post). Rainwater is pretty much sterile, it is evaporated, then condensed in the atmosphere, it only becomes contaminated once it reaches the ground etc.

If you were living off the land, or in the army on the move, or in an emergency situation (which this is yes?) how would you make or get clean water?? Basic survival techniques, and rainwater is one of the most important things to collect but must be done properly.

Sorry, I didn't mean to contradict what you said, other than the fact that I'm not certain that rainwater is sterile - how can it be when it can contain debris as large as frogs (has been recorded)? My mention of water butts was in response to someone who mentioned that they had plenty of rainwater in their water butt: I know I'm badly overreacting, but I was worried that someone geting worried by the lack of drinking water might put two and two together and make five. Just to re-iterate, I know you didn't say anything about using water collected in a butt.

As for the survival situation argument, I agree that one can purify, filter and provide clean drinking water; however, when we watch a Ray Mears-type doing it, we must remember that he and his fellow survival experts are just that: they are experts and they also have survival kit with them. One poster here mentioned that they were unable to boil water as their kettle was their only means of doing so, and, with the impending loss of electricity, that will become as useful as the proverbial chocolate fireguard.

As for chemical sterilisation; how are an average family supposed to acheive this whilst not contaminating their drinking water from a chemical point of view? I see the article you linked-to suggests many things, (how many first-aiders have Tincture of Iodine?) the only one of which I can imagine the average household would have would be bleach, and that is so potentially dangerous if a mistake is made with the amount added that, unless people are extremely careful to measure both bleach and water accurately, it could well do more harm than good. Like it or not, most of us do not have such equipment or chemicals as we (not unreasonably IMO) assume that we will have a safe drinking-water supply - even if the mains becomes contaminated, the water company involved normally provide bowsers or large containers of clean water. The fact that they have so far been unable to do so (although it appears that my local water company, Anglian Water will soon, along with others, be providing an emergency supply) is yet another sign of how exceptional and unprecedented this situation is. All I'm saying is that it's better to go thirsty for 12-18 hours (which is possible, though most unpleasant) until emergency supplies arrive, rather than to panic and start drinking water that may be bacteriologically contaminated, or pouring bleach into water haphazardly and risk poisoning oneself.

Edited July 22, 2007 by w0033944

[pottyprof]

Can we please leave the politics out of this please. What's been done has been done but now there's a future to build.

What exactly should the local response be? What exactly are local agencies doing? I'd be interested to know what has been learned from the trial run in Yorkshire and are things being put into practice?

It's a huge task and only people power will put it right.

[chrisbell-nottheweatherman]

Sorry, I should have been clearer - FEMA is the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the US Government Agency which co-ordinates the Government response in National Emergencies.

I'm not sure what 'declaring a national emergency' would achieve - The Police, Fire and Rescue, Health Protection Agency are all regional agencies and Local Authorities have the Kit - other than providing money, the Government doesn't actually have much more to offer at this point. I noted that the Gloucestershire, Hereford & Worcester Emergency Planning Teams had activated their 'Gold Command', so they've declared an area wide state of emergency anyway and that gives them the power to co-opt whatever Military assistance they need or can be spared. They've also asked for, and received outside assistance -I know colleagues in Lincolnshire are providing extra sandbags and sand to Oxfordshire, and no doubt others are doing the same. They seem to be co-ordinating necessary relief with a great deal of skill, which is probably all the National Government would do.

As it happens, I think there is the need to consider a National Emergency Planning Agency. We used to have one (The Civil Defence Corps) but it was pensioned off under Callaghan's government and wound up by Thatcher for being too critical of her Governments civil defence plans in the early 80's. Perhaps it's time to re-consider.

Hmmm, good point regarding declaring a state of emergency; my thought assumed that this would be much more than a purely symbolic act. How many times do we see Governments scrapping agencies or bodies that later are proven to be missed badly when the chips are down?

Can we please leave the politics out of this please. What's been done has been done but now there's a future to build.

What exactly should the local response be? What exactly are local agencies doing? I'd be interested to know what has been learned from the trial run in Yorkshire and are things being put into practice?

It's a huge task and only people power will put it right.

Sorry, will withdraw from this thread forthwith.

Edited July 22, 2007 by w0033944

[SnowBear]

Sorry, I didn't mean to contradict what you said, other than the fact that I'm not certain that rainwater is sterile - how can it be when it can contain debris as large as frogs (has been recorded)? My mention of water butts was in response to someone who mentioned that they had plenty of rainwater in their water butt: I know I'm badly overreacting, but I as worried that someone geting worried by the lack of drinking water might put two and two together and make five. Just to re-iterate, I know you didn't say anything about using water collected in a butt.

As for the survival situation argument, I agree that one can purify, filter and provide clean drinking water; however, when we watch a Ray Mears-type doing it, we must remember that he and his fellow survival experts are just that: they are experts and they also have survival kit with them. One poster here mentioned that they were unable to boil water as their kettle was their only means of doing so, and, with the impending loss of electricity, that will become as useful as the proverbial chocolate fireguard.

As for chemical sterilisation; how are an average family supposed to acheive this whilst not contaminating their drinking water from a chemical point of view? I see the article you linked-to suggests many things, (how many first-aiders have Tincture of Iodine?) the only one of which I can imagine the average household would have would be bleach, and that is so potentially dangerous if a mistake is made with the amount added that, unless people are extremely careful to measure both bleach and water accurately, it could well do more harm than good. Like it or not, most of us do not have such equipment or chemicals as we (not unreasonably IMO) assume that we will have a safe drinking-water supply - even if the mains becomes contaminated, the water company involved normally provide bowsers or large containers of clean water. The fact that they have so far been unable to do so (although it appears that my local water company, Anglian Water will soon, along with others, be providing an emergency supply) is yet another sign of how exceptional and unprecedented this situation is. All I'm saying is that it's better to go thirsty for 12-18 hours (which is possible, though most unpleasant) until emergency supplies arrive, rather than to panic and start drinking water that may be bacteriologically contaminated, or pouring bleach into water haphazardly and risk poisoning oneself.

Ok, so the advice that was given to millions of survivors in Asia, and also millions of those effected by Katrina, and all Army survival techniques, are good enough for them, but not good enough for us at home. God help us if we ever get a really bad national disaster where we have to fend for ourselves for a few weeks.

I ain't gonna argue on it though.

[Just Before Dawn]

Can we please leave the politics out of this please. What's been done has been done but now there's a future to build.

What exactly should the local response be? What exactly are local agencies doing? I'd be interested to know what has been learned from the trial run in Yorkshire and are things being put into practice?

It's a huge task and only people power will put it right.

Fair enough.

The local response will be being lead by a committee called 'Gold Command' - which will probably consist of the County Emergency Planning Unit, the Police, the Health Protection Agency, The Environment Agency, Severn Trent Water, the district councils affected, probably one or more of the Voluntary services - The Red Cross most likely and possibly the military as it appears they've been involved in rescues. There are three levels of 'command' - Bronze Command is established for potentially hazardous situations affecting a small geographical area - a classic example would be something like the Firework factory fire in East Sussex earlier in the year. Silver command is established for larger scale events needing greater multi-agency co-operation. In the June floods here in Lincolnshire, silver command was established because of the complexity of the operation, though outside help was not considered necessary. When an event is of such a scale that outside assistance is necessary, then Gold Command is established. The idea of Gold Command is that the huge numbers of Agencies will have a single place to co-ordinate action.

As for the individual Agencies, it's difficult to say. The Environment Agency will be dealing with warnings and infrastructure, Severn Trent will be trying to secure water supplies, the Police, Local Authorities, The Military will be primarily responsible for public safety and humanitarian issues. Other agencies (such as the Health Protection Agency, Natural England, the Government Office) will be advising on a range of issues.

The whole response will have been subject to both desktop and practical exercises and plans would have been prepared well in advance and revised on the back of experiences elsewhere. The fact that, at the moment no-one appears to have lost their life is good evidence of how well-rehearsed the emergency plans for circumstances like these are. It feels like anarchy when you're actually involved, but actually it isn't.

Edited July 22, 2007 by Just Before Dawn

[dogs32]

Glad Janes was or still is around.been told Brockworth power out +150,000 without power

#brother says his power as been flickering...4 miles away

so far Ive been lucky with the floods around me friday....power going down....water running out.....but I think I will run out of water....been told food in some places as run out...Im getting this info second hand so I dont know how good it is....petrol station busy more than normal(panick people I take it0

Edited July 22, 2007 by dogs32

[Paul]

Major search operation in the flood water nearby has been going on over the past hour involving a search and rescue sea king and rescue teams from the fire brigade.

[Just Before Dawn]

Major search operation in the flood water nearby has been going on over the past hour involving a search and rescue sea king and rescue teams from the fire brigade.

That's not good. Fingers crossed they find whoever they're looking for safe and well, or it's a false alarm.

[pottyprof]

Hope it's nothing serious Paul. Must be like looking for the proverbial needle....

[dogs32]

sea kings helecopters just flew over going tewksbury direction

just heard more helecopters again

Edited July 22, 2007 by dogs32

[PersianPaladin]

Anyone know if Evesham has power 2nite?

[Pickles]

Anyone know if Evesham has power 2nite?

Yes it does