will london flood

[tinybill]

Watching sky news there grave concern that large parts of the Thames valley could be under water by the end of the week

[kippure]

Watching sky news there grave concern that large parts of the Thames valley could be under water by the end of the week

Was watching one of them weather shows back ages. And it said london was at threat of flooding from a high tide and so we have the thames barrier. It also said that flooding from run off could flood london aswell. Either way its not good,is it?

Edited July 23, 2007 by kippure

[tinybill]

Was watching one of them weather shows back ages. And it said london was at threat of flooding from a high tide and so we have the thames barrier. It also said that flooding from run off could flood london aswell. Either way its not good,is it?

no its not its at it highesat level for 100+ years i cant see barrier helping

[Turnedoutniceagain]

The Agencies that deal with floods, rivers etc will never be properly funded until London floods.

Or is the cynic in me just speaking out of turn ??? (bad dog )

[kippure]

no its not its at it highesat level for 100+ years i cant see barrier helping

THe barrier will help from a high tide. Especially in spring. But with the present situation its how fast the water gets away and out into the sea. Certainly at high tide theres a increased chance of flooding but if it peaks at low tide there should be no real problems i hope.

[johnholmes]

the last post is about right in my view although it does depend how much water falls on the Thames catchment area over the next 12 hours. Also it needs the major flow to go through London at low tide with the barrier down.

[OneOffDave]

the last post is about right in my view although it does depend how much water falls on the Thames catchment area over the next 12 hours. Also it needs the major flow to go through London at low tide with the barrier down.

The real danger for London would be rainfall like we've just had and a low pressure system tracking down the North Sea, adding storm surge residuals to the standard astronomical tides, creating tide-locking as is quite common on the Broads.

Ring fencing the EA's funding and not making it pay for the mistakes of other bits of DEFRA would be a good start. Stopping our over relaince on local authority provided sandbags would also be good.

[HighPressure]

If anyone is near the weirs at Hampton Court or Teddington, I would be interested to know their positions. The EA have a choice as to hold the water back by keeping the weirs high thus allowing areas upstream to flood in favour of letting the water flow down into central London??

[Rustynailer]

Stopping our over relaince on local authority provided sandbags would also be good.

I am a pro'-de-centralization person. I believe that the problems of sand bags and barriers the logistics of, in time of emergency are dealt with on a local Laval by people who know the area.

I agree that general supply of sand and Hessian or plastic sacks should and has been put in place to supply these authority's on demand.

The problem is that one of the faults of a "just in time society", is out of habit, necessity and funding restrictions these stockpiles are fewer in number than say in the 60s.

Another problem is that people do not have a job they have for life and love that job anymore.

So people who know all the roads, ditches, aquifers and culverts, like the back of there hand are fewer in number and in some places nonexistent.

Will London flood? It better not flood Central London or its Pooh Pooh time and I am not joking. Its the one of the worlds most influential financial centers as if we didn't know. We will all be considerably less well off if it does.

The lowland floodplains recently flooded are now, the perfect breeding grounds for some pretty bad diseases. This could become a serious problem quite suddenly especially if it gets warmer whilst remaining wet.

Russ

Edited July 23, 2007 by Rustynailer

[OneOffDave]

Apologies for going a bit OT

I am a pro'-de-centralization person. I believe that the problems of sand bags and barriers the logistics of, in time of emergency are dealt with on a local Laval by people who know the area.

I agree that general supply of sand and Hessian or plastic sacks should and has been put in place to supply these authority's on demand.

The problem is that one of the faults of a "just in time society", is out of habit, necessity and funding restrictions these stockpiles are fewer in number than say in the 60s.

Probelms with sandbags are they need to be kept somewhere dry and dark or they fail within 6-8 months so if you stockpile a reasonable number, you are replacing them frequently. Another problem with them is the distribution. A full wet sandbag weighs about 25kg, a pallet full of then weighs a tonne. You need vehicles, and more importantly, people to load, unload and distribute these in the critical times.

We knew this rain event was going to happen, but not the exact scale or location. Would have been very expensive and politically damaging for us (as an unaffected area) to have say, cancelled all our street cleaning and bin collection to have staff on standby to dish out the bags. Local 'dumps' create even more problems with wasteage, costs for premises, maintaining access etc.

And to top all that off, provision of flood protection equipment to individual households isn't a statutory duty of local authorities, with the focus being on protecting the infrastructure.

I'm also not keen on sandbags as a measure when proper flood defences are much better as long as they are stored locally, not like those that didn't make it to Upton on Severn.

I agree totally about the local knowledge about dykes, drains, ditches etc. Lose that knowledge and it's gone forever.

As for central London Flooding, I daren't begin to estimate the financial impact.

Dave

Sandbag Guru

[Calrissian]

London flood ?

oh god, more media hype. We've had a few inches of rains in most areas, and people are freaking out like its the end of modern society.

Its utter societal hysteria. I've got little sympathy for people who are whining in those areas on the flood plains. They're idiots, and should have been prepared for such events. After all, they are FLOOD PLAINS.

But no, lets blame the govt. and expect Brown to rescue everyone by helicopter, and drop them bottled water because no one has the inclination to keep a small store of water for emergencies these days.

--

I'm watching the radar and it does look like more rain for the south, but really, if the rich southern UK really can't be bothered to prepare or design better defences, then people should just quit the whining.

Calrissian: watching the radar....and ISS

[Turnedoutniceagain]

Good news, big Gordon's visited the scene

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6911576.stm

With a quick shimmy of the hips he's managed to blame climate change, awesome

[justinflavin]

If anyone is near the weirs at Hampton Court or Teddington, I would be interested to know their positions. The EA have a choice as to hold the water back by keeping the weirs high thus allowing areas upstream to flood in favour of letting the water flow down into central London??

i've just heard on sky news that all the weirs have been fully opened upstream to allow the waters flow to the sea as quickly as possible.

Good news, big Gordon's visited the scene

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6911576.stm

With a quick shimmy of the hips he's managed to blame climate change, awesome

ah yes - the "climate change" get-out-of-jail-free card. very handy that.

trouble is - the met office warned the government about flooding months ago

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...2132232,00.html

[johnholmes]

thankfully no sign of this at the moment.

The real danger for London would be rainfall like we've just had and a low pressure system tracking down the North Sea, adding storm surge residuals to the standard astronomical tides, creating tide-locking as is quite common on the Broads.

[Timmytour]

The big problem must be the upcoming winter period.

How many times are concerns about potential water shortages expressed in terms of how low the water table is coming out of winter. That's how it was going into last summer. Well now it looks like within a year, the twinkling of an eye in terms of time in general, the concern might be how high the table is coming out of summer.

Would this be a justified concern. In other words that it might not take much more than a slightly wetter than average winter to push us over the top?

[charlton north-downs]

London flood ?

oh god, more media hype. We've had a few inches of rains in most areas, and people are freaking out like its the end of modern society.

Its utter societal hysteria. I've got little sympathy for people who are whining in those areas on the flood plains. They're idiots, and should have been prepared for such events. After all, they are FLOOD PLAINS.

But no, lets blame the govt. and expect Brown to rescue everyone by helicopter, and drop them bottled water because no one has the inclination to keep a small store of water for emergencies these days.

--

I'm watching the radar and it does look like more rain for the south, but really, if the rich southern UK really can't be bothered to prepare or design better defences, then people should just quit the whining.

Calrissian: watching the radar....and ISS

A bit harsh in my humble opinion. There is great a housing shortage in the South East and not all people are rich and affluent in the South. Some of the most deprived areas in the country are in Inner London. Most of London is built on flood plains including Downing Street many years ago. Since the building of council houses has almost ceased people who cannot afford a Mortgage are desperate for accommodation . Apparently 10% of buildings in the UK are built on Flood Plains going back 300 years. The rainfall that has fallen in the last three months has broken all records, so the accumulation of water is unprecedented. The trouble with the Thames is it is tidal and has a lot of contributories that add to the problem. London has flooded many times before with great loss of life.

[yamkin]

The latest radar is very dramatic indeed.

There has been a major jet stream shift where a massive low pressure has formed over France

and is heading North towards the SE / London bound.

If this massive low pressure carries on it's present course, there will be severe problems.

The government have ordered all weirs to be opened to allow the water to flow into the sea as quickly as possible, hence the latest severe warnings from news channels.

[Turnedoutniceagain]

The government have ordered all weirs to be opened to allow the water to flow into the sea as quickly as possible, hence the latest severe warnings from news channels.

I seem to recall that this was the problem in Hull 2 weeks ago. The weirs weren't allowed to be opened because of the protected colony of newts on the other side of it

Here's hoping that West London is newt free !!

[justinflavin]

The latest radar is very dramatic indeed.

There has been a major jet stream shift where a massive low pressure has formed over France

and is heading North towards the SE / London bound.

If this massive low pressure carries on it's present course, there will be severe problems.

The government have ordered all weirs to be opened to allow the water to flow into the sea as quickly as possible, hence the latest severe warnings from news channels.

the meteox radar certainly shows the northerly direction of that rain front from france...

http://www.meteox.com/

[tinybill]

I seem to recall that this was the problem in Hull 2 weeks ago. The weirs weren't allowed to be opened because of the protected colony of newts on the other side of it

Here's hoping that West London is newt free !!

http://www.thamesff.org.uk/

BRECKING NEWS

from sky news thames is height is going up 0.44 an hour and its only 1 foot from flooding

Edited July 23, 2007 by tinybill

[Just Before Dawn]

I seem to recall that this was the problem in Hull 2 weeks ago. The weirs weren't allowed to be opened because of the protected colony of newts on the other side of it

Here's hoping that West London is newt free !!

Sounds like rubbish to me - no species is protected to the extent that the protection over-rides human safety concerns.

[Calrissian]

lol, looks pretty impressive on the radar.

*re: harsh.

Yes, in some respects, but then, the fact that people are not preparing for anything, even 'simple things', its just a total lack of responsibility on the part of the masses.

Q. How many residents in the flood plain area of London, are today taking the precaution of forming a reserve of drinking water, enough to last say 1-2 weeks?

Probably no one.

---

Meanwhile, the HEAVY rain advances northward from the fine nation of France.

Calrissian: having a spicy lunch

[Turnedoutniceagain]

Sounds like rubbish to me - no species is protected to the extent that the protection over-rides human safety concerns.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/di...te=4&page=0

Great quote "I hope those newts are happy in my living room" !!

Edited July 23, 2007 by Turnedoutniceagain

[justinflavin]

lol, looks pretty impressive on the radar.

*re: harsh.

Yes, in some respects, but then, the fact that people are not preparing for anything, even 'simple things', its just a total lack of responsibility on the part of the masses.

Q. How many residents in the flood plain area of London, are today taking the precaution of forming a reserve of drinking water, enough to last say 1-2 weeks?Probably no one.

cant blame them really - i dont hear any warnings on the radio being issued about stocking up.

if the thames overflows , then i presume that'll have knock on effects on the water supply in the thames valley?

Meanwhile, the HEAVY rain advances northward from the fine nation of France.

Calrissian: having a spicy lunch

i'm no radar expert,but is that rain radar really *that* heavy or will it burn itself out before reaching us?

Edited July 23, 2007 by justinflavin

[Calrissian]

That be HEAVY rain ! If it kinda lurks for more than 2 or 3 hours, those areas already affected will be really screwed for the rest of this week. If you look at the satellite pics, if that low kinda just pivots whilst over the UK, then we might be talking about 2-3 inches for many places.

As for Thames Water, I'd expect the directors at that boardroom table right now are freaking out. For once, they might actually have to deal with a real issue on their hands.

---

Its certainly becoming an interesting situation, one that merits extra attention.

Calrissian: time for more tea ?