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noggin

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Posted
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

    This is the sort of thing that actually quite frightens me. Why interfere with our food in this way?

    It smacks of hysteria to me. Of course we must respect our planet and it's resources, but to start interfering with our food in this way is just barmy. IMVHO, this sort of thing does nothing for the AGW "bandwagon" (for want of a better word and no offence intended :cold: )

    It is looking at things from a totally wrong perspective....we should be putting our energy into finding better sources of energy (!) rather than messing around with our food like this.

    ....and I hate UHT milk anyway!

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    Posted
  • Location: Raunds - Northants
  • Location: Raunds - Northants

    Bandwagon is the right word. Someone in that government dept. needs a reality check and the boot perhaps.

    But hey, lets just get rid of all refrigeration and eat rotten meat and fish just in case AGW is true. Lets not wait - ruin the economy and folks health now before warming does it.

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

    Don't do that Roo! I thought he was back!!!!

    Panic over.

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    Posted
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion

    While we're at it, lets ban frozen food and central heating as well ........ This is just the sort of announcement that makes a mockery of all attempts to get folk to reduce their energy consumption: unnecessary and impractical.

    Although I would support any efforts to get supermarkets to switch their lights off at night ...... (which'd save them millions a year as well - just shows how too much money makes businesses and well as individual stupid and lazy)

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    Posted
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
    Daily Mail scare stories?

    This is a proposal put forward by officials at DEFRA.

    My knowledge of the dairy industry is limited, but even UHT milk requires energy to preserve it, so what is the point in making us drink horrible tasting stuff for what would probably be a small saving in energy?

    The bigger picture of alternative energy sources should be looked at.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

    This is the sort of thing that actually quite frightens me. Why interfere with our food in this way?

    It smacks of hysteria to me.

    ...

    It smacks of scaremongering to me.

    Besides, when you go to the supermarket, milk is in racks simply wheeled into a open fronted refridgeration units. Cold air floods out of them cooling a whole part of the supermarket it's a total waste of energy.

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    Posted
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
  • Location: Evesham, Worcs, Albion
    This is a proposal put forward by officials at DEFRA.

    That explains it then. The Department for the Elimination of Farming and Rural Affairs probably wants to introduce this as a further step in banning diary farming in the UK (UHT milk can be imported from Australia or Argentina or somewhere else on the other side of the world).

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    Posted
  • Location: St. Albans, Herts
  • Location: St. Albans, Herts
    This is a proposal put forward by officials at DEFRA.

    Almost certainly, but I bet they put out hundreds of proposals and working papers every day: in fact I know they do. Almost all never make it past the suggestion stage.

    This is another good old Daily Mail terror-piece. Grrrrrrrrr....

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    Posted
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
    Almost certainly, but I bet they put out hundreds of proposals and working papers every day: in fact I know they do. Almost all never make it past the suggestion stage.

    This is another good old Daily Mail terror-piece. Grrrrrrrrr....

    But don't you feel that the fact that they are even considering it is scary?

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
    But don't you feel that the fact that they are even considering it is scary?

    I don't find UHT milk scary, the Daily Mail is another matter :cold:

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    Posted
  • Location: St. Albans, Herts
  • Location: St. Albans, Herts
    But don't you feel that the fact that they are even considering it is scary?

    But, if it's in the Mail, who knows whether it's even real or not: I was being very generous to them........

    Oooooo look:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7044693.stm

    Funny that....

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
    But, if it's in the Mail, who knows whether it's even real or not: I was being very generous to them........

    Oooooo look:

    <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7044693.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7044693.stm</a>

    Funny that....

    So DEFRA have to spend time and public money denying some scare story in the Mail - a paper that is always complaining about tax and the waste of said :cold:

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    Posted
  • Location: Nr Appleby in Westmorland
  • Location: Nr Appleby in Westmorland

    I really do think this will have been made-up by some hack at the mail putting two and two together to make a story which, if you're so inclined, sounds believable.

    I have no proof of this and await the solicitor's phone call.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire

    :( Pah!

    If this is the case, then what is the point of the paper? Why is a DEFRA paper required to point out the fact that shops do not need to refrigerate long-life milk?

    I reckon that the proposal has met with such ridicule and derision that they are backtracking because it has made them look like a lot of nincompoops.

    :cold:

    further reading of the article in the Mail indicates that the leak was to the Times. Does that change anyone's opinion? (smiley thing)

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    Posted
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)
  • Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex (work in Mid Sussex)

    Not a slow news day then?

    I think we should all go back to tins of Carnation and Spam, in fact bring back rationing, National Service and 3 day weeks. I'll get Gordon on the phone and suggest it as a vote winner to raise morale. :cold:

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
    :cold: Pah!

    If this is the case, then what is the point of the paper? Why is a DEFRA paper required to point out the fact that shops do not need to refrigerate long-life milk?

    I reckon that the proposal has met with such ridicule and derision that they are backtracking because it has made them look like a lot of nincompoops.

    I get it. Press hacks from the Mail or Times are always on the look out for something to ridicule the govt (or better civil servants) with - such stuff has a 'tut tut' factor, a 'I don't believe it' saleability. They find something deep in a paper they can work with, spin it for all they're worth, and then (on that basis) people feel able to use words like nincompoops. I don't find it a particularly edifying sight.

    further reading of the article in the Mail indicates that the leak was to the Times. Does that change anyone's opinion? (smiley thing)

    Yep, it's scaremongering but with a more serious tone!

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    Posted
  • Location: Rossland BC Canada
  • Location: Rossland BC Canada

    If they didn't chop down trees to make paper for these tabloids, then how much would that help?

    Many of the arguments being advanced about technological change to prevent global warming fail to connect with the sixth decimal point reality involved. But there are more obvious problems.

    Locally, we have a big debate going on about twinning a major highway bridge across the Fraser River. This was built in the 1960s when the regional population was 300,000. Now it is 2 million and of course this bridge, at the best of times, is a vast sea of human misery in the morning and afternoon commuting periods, known rather imprecisely as rush hour.

    The rest of the highway is now 6-8 lanes but the bridge was built for four lanes. And of course, in rainy or snowy weather, accidents near the bridge, even minor ones, can create gridlock over wide areas for three or four hours at a go.

    Most are in favour of twinning the bridge, and there is even a payoff for public transit in that the regional service provider can see their way clear to resuming scheduled bus service across the bridge. Mass transit is fairly well utilized in this region but the one big hole in the system is the bridge in question, it became so unreliable for service times that they abandoned the routes twenty years ago.

    Meanwhile, some are saying, it only encourages more cars on the road, and we should spend the money on more buses and a better train service. Seeing as how we have no train service, that would not be difficult, but the economic geography here is such that trains would not work like they do in the U.K. to move people to their work places on a regular basis.

    The part of the argument that gets lost, I believe, is this. How much greenhouse gas production is there from millions of idling or slow-moving vehicles on the road for three hours, as opposed to 120% of the same number driving at normal speed for thirty minutes? And what's the real reduction in global temperature from having everyone here on a train or in a bus? Half a millionth of a degree? That's just going to reduce the distance a polar bear has to swim to catch a seal by four inches.

    Since the seal is fatter from the more nutrients in the warming polar sea, he is four inches closer to the polar bear anyway.

    Seems like too much bother to this old codger. Sorry, I have misled 748,326 young people with that one. I must do hard time in the Gore-Suzuki re-education camp.

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    Posted
  • Location: Putney, SW London. A miserable 14m asl....but nevertheless the lucky recipient of c 20cm of snow in 12 hours 1-2 Feb 2009!
  • Location: Putney, SW London. A miserable 14m asl....but nevertheless the lucky recipient of c 20cm of snow in 12 hours 1-2 Feb 2009!
    ......And what's the real reduction in global temperature from having everyone here on a train or in a bus? Half a millionth of a degree? That's just going to reduce the distance a polar bear has to swim to catch a seal by four inches.

    Some of your points about the bridge arguments are good, Roger, but this bit is silly. It's like saying my single vote in an election will never make a significant difference, so I might as well never vote. What price democracy if everyone did that?

    Of course no single measure to reduce CO2 emissions in a single place will make much difference on its own, but lots and lots of different measures in lots and lots of different places just might.

    Back to the thread topic: as Roo says, in even good government hundreds of people spend their lives and our money suggesting and discussing hundreds of often daft ideas with each other. It's always happened and it always will, and occasionally good ideas come out of the process. Journalists - especially Mail ones - earn a living digging out silly things for impressionable readers to get het up about. But they're of no more importance than Newton's alchemical ramblings or Picasso's pornographic doodles.

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    Posted
  • Location: Thame, Oxfordshire
  • Location: Thame, Oxfordshire
    Some of your points about the bridge arguments are good, Roger, but this bit is silly. It's like saying my single vote in an election will never make a significant difference, so I might as well never vote. What price democracy if everyone did that?

    Of course no single measure to reduce CO2 emissions in a single place will make much difference on its own, but lots and lots of different measures in lots and lots of different places just might.

    Back to the thread topic: as Roo says, in even good government hundreds of people spend their lives and our money suggesting and discussing hundreds of often daft ideas with each other. It's always happened and it always will, and occasionally good ideas come out of the process. Journalists - especially Mail ones - earn a living digging out silly things for impressionable readers to get het up about. But they're of no more importance than Newton's alchemical ramblings or Picasso's pornographic doodles.

    OSM

    In my opinion something this Government pioneered was the unofficial leaking of potential policy to some friendly journalist so that the government could test the publics reaction, and /or numb or wear them down for the inevitable that happens a few years down the line. This , like so many other seemingly far fetched Government initiatives , will be back sooner or later, probably later, but it will be back. Road pricing is a good example. Electronic chips in your wheelie bin another. some people may think that these are good ideas.

    Another thought - presumably they will be using green energy ( CO2 neutral) to heat treat the milk.

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