Have we actually Forgotten what cold is

[Marduk]

Speaking of temps here is my interpretation of max temps during winter.

6-8C Average, 5-3C cool, 2-0C cold, -1 - 3C very cold, -4 - -7 bitterly cold, -8 -11 extreme cold.

Here were i live would 6-8'c be extremely mild during winter! But everything is relative as some one wrote here in the forum... when it gets from summer to autumn with a tmax of 10'c people say it is bitterly cold, the same when the first tmax around zero in november comes up... But now in january when tmax avg should be at -2'c to -1'c with snow outside with some cold days and mild days a 2-3'c is something that people hate, wet snow, too warm etc, but when the first two digit day with sunshine comes in the end of march, beginning of april, people start to go in t-shirts :wacko:

Edited January 6, 2008 by Sillkalven

[PersianPaladin]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you! Last Dec( just gone), was the coldest over most of England & Wales since 1981. Here in Manchester, there were 12 days of constantly below normal temps, up to the 22nd. Hardly normal, & by the way, the muppet on here said Dec. would be dry, sunny & mild on his monthly f/cast, Chris, somebody or other....... It wasnt dry, 5" + of rain in Manchester, sunshine was at a premium only about 50 hours, & only 1 day reached double figures & that was only a miserable 10C. If our climate was really getting milder than every day would see temps of 7C+, with at least 10 days into double figures. It's my opinion that our wretched climate is getting worse & worse.....ie. more rain, wind & dullness every year.

What would be wrong with a decent high over Biscay, English Channel & N.France of 1050+ millibars lasting for 3 months or so. Some people might not like it, but the death rate for hypothermia would be neglible, & I bet the NHS would be in heaven. As it is, we have so many viruses in winter, cos it NEVER stops raining, which makes our atmosphere extremely unhealthy. |As for our summers, forget it. 2007 was a travesty, & this year will be even worse. It will only be a matter of time before we have years where it rains every day :wacko: Nowhere else in the world has to put up with this.....

Are you forgetting the mild start we had as well as the fact that the CET was almost bang on average? Hardly the coldest since 1981.

Wrt climate....the general trend is a warming one; but climate patterns oscillate as is such in nature. You will notice such oscillations on graphs where we have peaks and troughs but with the general trend being that of warming. Last summer was very unfortunate; for us to be under the influence of low pressure for so long...but then I see that as a balancing out\response to the massive warm anamolies of the previous summer\autumn\winter.

Rain does NOT make atmosphere unhealthy. There are other factors involved such as wind direction which determine air quality...high pressure systems with a south-easterly are FAR FAR worse pollution wise. Viruses are caused by a weakness in the immune system and this is not caused by cold or rain but exarcebated by sudden changes in temperature over short periods of time. You get this in all winters....people need to toughen up. Its a fact of life and WILL get worse as our population grows and ages.

Thank God you don't live in sub-saharan Africa!

[Snowly does it]

Better not read this SM - it'll make you cry. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3085085.ece I agree with you, it is very sad.

Moose

Poor Santa :wacko:

I realise something else I miss is when the whole country is blanketed; its the quiet, the muffling of all Earthly noises and the hope that when the snow finally recedes then maybe, just maybe everything will be renewed underneath, it really does have a magical quality to it.

I can remember being in bed with my knees drawn up literally shivering, with cold ears etc and yet all I could do was giggle to myself at the fun I had all day and hope the next day would be as fun - of course it was, this was the early 80s, snow was not some fly by night event.

The saddest thing of all is I just cannot imagine it any more - I cannot see it coming, I cannot believe we will see spells of weather like that. It was a cool summer and an average Autumn, December was below average but I have 2 roses out and 8 buds waiting to bloom - crazy.

[Nick F]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you! Last Dec( just gone), was the coldest over most of England & Wales since 1981. Here in Manchester, there were 12 days of constantly below normal temps, up to the 22nd. Hardly normal, & by the way, the muppet on here said Dec. would be dry, sunny & mild on his monthly f/cast, Chris, somebody or other....... :wacko: It wasnt dry, 5" + of rain in Manchester, sunshine was at a premium only about 50 hours, & only 1 day reached double figures & that was only a miserable 10C. If our climate was really getting milder than every day would see temps of 7C+, with at least 10 days into double figures. It's my opinion that our wretched climate is getting worse & worse.....ie. more rain, wind & dullness every year.

Best you get your facts right before name calling people on here. There's no way Dec 2007 was the coldest over England and Wales since 1981, England and Wales was 0.5 °C above the 1961-1990 average ... coldest since ... december 2005 with

4.3 °C, which is equal to the 1961-1990 average for E&W.

Since temps were just above average in Dec for E&W, and around average for the CET, then I'd say it was rather normal temp wise.

[Optimus Prime]

I don't think it was the coldest December day since 1981 but the 24 hour temperatures at one day in December was the lowest this century. Perhaps the lowest since December 1981 because Decembers since then haven't seen any notable cold days in England.

More likely the lowest December 24 hour temperature since 1996 or 1995.

[The PIT]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you! Last Dec( just gone), was the coldest over most of England & Wales since 1981. Here in Manchester, there were 12 days of constantly below normal temps, up to the 22nd. Hardly normal, & by the way, the muppet on here said Dec. would be dry, sunny & mild on his monthly f/cast, Chris, somebody or other....... It wasnt dry, 5" + of rain in Manchester, sunshine was at a premium only about 50 hours, & only 1 day reached double figures & that was only a miserable 10C. If our climate was really getting milder than every day would see temps of 7C+, with at least 10 days into double figures. It's my opinion that our wretched climate is getting worse & worse.....ie. more rain, wind & dullness every year.

What would be wrong with a decent high over Biscay, English Channel & N.France of 1050+ millibars lasting for 3 months or so. Some people might not like it, but the death rate for hypothermia would be neglible, & I bet the NHS would be in heaven. As it is, we have so many viruses in winter, cos it NEVER stops raining, which makes our atmosphere extremely unhealthy. |As for our summers, forget it. 2007 was a travesty, & this year will be even worse. It will only be a matter of time before we have years where it rains every day :wacko: Nowhere else in the world has to put up with this.....

Makes me laugh this post. December was dry with 81% of rainfall less in Sheffield. At least we just sneaked below average while CET was average. Temps miles above what we had in Dec 81. The cold snap in the middle doesn't even compare.

[PersianPaladin]

This was 29th December 2005 if I remember correctly. Bloody cold it was too.

I'd like to see more instances of those large icicles...sadly they are getting rare and more shortlived up here.

Edited January 6, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

This was 29th December 2005 if I remember correctly. Bloody cold it was too.

I'd like to see more instances of those...sadly they are getting rare and more shortlived up here.

Could you shrink it a bit?

[PersianPaladin]

Could you shrink it a bit?

It auto-adjusts....just give it a sec.

[Schnee]

I have some pics of Feb 1991 and the late Jan 1995 Leeds storm.

Fantastic pictures of frozen snow hanging a foot from the gutter covered in icicles. There's also one of a huge icicle 4ft long hanging from a join in the gutter on a house up the road.

Also near to my church there's a row of terraced houses and the sheer amount of icicles hanging from the gutter was scary.

Sadly they are buried in a cupboard in the dining room under literally a ton of junk and clutter. Been waiting for a day off when the parents are out so I can go and excavate them, scan them and return them.

[earsnow]

Went Badger watching around the 1987 snowy period! It was a nightime magical winter wonderland

The temp was -13. The Badger holes had columns of steam coming out of them,just like chimneys :o (called Huffing)

Two hours later came back home Didn't see a single Badger! They were all snug underground

[Jack Wales]

Yes I believe we have forgotten what proper cold realy is, we had tasters in 1995/96 and 2005/06 but the very cold spells were relatively short lived and followed by mild. It would be interesting to see how the country coped with a zero CET month.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Jack Wales

[snowsure]

All this talk of specific cold events prove that it was remarkable to get a large snow event. If it was the norm then you would not remember it because it would be, well, normal.

I propose that we do not remember the normal stuff; ergo it was not always as cold as we think it was.

Count how many severe winters we have had since 1947. In 60 years we have had less than 10. Therefore we are chasing a golden age of winter that never existed.

[masheeuk]

The winter of 79 certainly sticks in my mind. Working on the fruit and veg stall at my local market and whoever annoyed the boss most had to was the soot off the celery. First job was to find some running water.

[Duncan McAlister]

All this talk of specific cold events prove that it was remarkable to get a large snow event. If it was the norm then you would not remember it because it would be, well, normal.

I propose that we do not remember the normal stuff; ergo it was not always as cold as we think it was.

Count how many severe winters we have had since 1947. In 60 years we have had less than 10. Therefore we are chasing a golden age of winter that never existed.

Good points, and worth remembering that during the cold 1961-90 period the average maximum in January was 5-7C and the average minimum above freezing.

Britain has never been a winter wonderland, except for isolated events. The synoptics have always had to be absolutely perfect. It's just that so far this decade they've been totally elusive.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

The Badger holes had columns of steam coming out of them

I'm afraid I'm going to have to report you to the RSPCA.

Sorry.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Good points, and worth remembering that during the cold 1961-90 period the average maximum in January was 5-7C and the average minimum above freezing.

Britain has never been a winter wonderland, except for isolated events. The synoptics have always had to be absolutely perfect. It's just that so far this decade they've been totally elusive.

I agree about 50% with that- certainly the synoptics have been elusive, but I think it's also highly likely that they'll have to be more perfect than before because the cold air sources and SSTs are that little bit warmer.

[Lord of the clouds]

Good points, and worth remembering that during the cold 1961-90 period the average maximum in January was 5-7C and the average minimum above freezing.

Britain has never been a winter wonderland, except for isolated events. The synoptics have always had to be absolutely perfect. It's just that so far this decade they've been totally elusive.

I think I'd have to agree with you there, Duncan. Exceptional weather doesn't happen everyday, but when it does it is always remembered. When I was growing up in the 80's it seemed every winter would produce severe snow, but looking back at records it wasn't that frequent after all just seemed so. I do think that we are still in the position to get a harsh winter maybe this winter maybe not, but we can't rule it out. It makes me laugh when people say " no more snow in Britain ever, ever, ever again. Maybe I'm wrong!!!

[Schnee]

I've just found this on Net Weather: http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=...r;type=winthist.

After reading it, I do think a bad winter is possible in this country again.

There will be a major volcanic eruption somewhere that kickstarts a series of cold, snowy winters in the future. When is another question.

[Zerouali lives]

I don't think people living in central Scotland will forget what cold is tomorrow morning. It's now -3° in Aberdeen but I'd image temperatures could plummet towards minus double figures across the snowfields further inland. Lying snow really encourages those nightime temperatures to plummet.

[Weather-history]

Thinking about it would there have there been a thread, say back in September 1988, saying have we forgotten what summer heat is, after the 4 consecutive indifferent summer?

[Turnedoutniceagain]

Judging by the 10+ pages of "It's snowing etc etc etc" on here yesterday, I'd say we have.

Predictably the papers are full of "Siberian" comparisons today :lol:

[Stratos Ferric]

All this talk of specific cold events prove that it was remarkable to get a large snow event. If it was the norm then you would not remember it because it would be, well, normal.

I propose that we do not remember the normal stuff; ergo it was not always as cold as we think it was.

Count how many severe winters we have had since 1947. In 60 years we have had less than 10. Therefore we are chasing a golden age of winter that never existed.

That's right, but at least they DID happen at least occasionally. Let's not delude ourselves. There hasn't been a snow event in my recent memory - and arguably right back to 1997 - that comes anywhere near the events recalled on here. Before 1988 more winters had decent events than did not, and some winters had more than one.

I've just found this on Net Weather: http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=...r;type=winthist.

After reading it, I do think a bad winter is possible in this country again.

There will be a major volcanic eruption somewhere that kickstarts a series of cold, snowy winters in the future. When is another question.

Something big enough to do that would probably take a continent out with it. The only event in the reliable record was probably Krakatoa; that had a demonstrable effect, but back then global temps were more than a degree lower than where they are now. We might be waiting tens of thousands of years for something big enough to overcome the current GW.

[cheeky_monkey]

Thinking about it would there have there been a thread, say back in September 1988, saying have we forgotten what summer heat is, after the 4 consecutive indifferent summer? :lol:

not quite the same as 20 indifferent winters?...

[TEITS]

That's right, but at least they DID happen at least occasionally. Let's not delude ourselves. There hasn't been a snow event in my recent memory - and arguably right back to 1997 - that comes anywhere near the events recalled on here. Before 1988 more winters had decent events than did not, and some winters had more than one.

Indeed SF and one particular forecast that used to be fairly common for my locaton back in the 80's was "frequent, prolonged snow showers merging into longer periods of snow".

Now the problem is we haven't see an E,ly since 91 that compares to the 80's hence the lack of prolonged snow showers and the Dec 05 E,ly only bought occasional, moderate snow showers.

The main problem is the lack of those bitter upper air temps because not only did they bring the widespread snow showers, the cold airmass used to deflect atlantic systems bringing frontal snowfall. Now what we see is a few hrs of sleet/wet snow before the atlantic comes marching in.

The video clips on the links below show what a true cold spell is really like in the UK and until I see a similiar cold spell then im afraid these scattered wintry flurries just don't do it for me anymore!