Should Spring start on 1st Feb ?

[stewfox]

Even by sub tropical Cornish standards this Winter has been a shocker for cold. Even if we don't see snow down here on the coast, Bodmin Moor tends to get 2 or 3 coverings per season, but this year not one to date!

As I said in a different Fred Winters are really not taken seriously down here any more. The amount of people on the beach this weekend was incredible, with even January and February consided sunbathing and paddling months nowadays - it's crazy and more than a tad frustrating as a cold lover... :lol:

I read somewhere recently that we should start changing the season definitions. To reflect the weather/plant growth etc

My idea

Winter Dec-Jan

Spring Feb - Apr

Summer May-Sept

Autumn Oct-Nov

Any other ideas

[Kiwi]

I read somewhere recently that we should start changing the season definitions. To reflect the weather/plant growth etc

My idea

Winter Dec-Jan

Spring Feb - Apr

Summer May-Sept

Autumn Oct-Nov

Any other ideas

How about simplifying things

- given last summer and winter perhaps we should just keep to two seasons Spring and Autumn :lol:

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

Call me simple, but I'd like to keep things as they are. Otherwise we could theoretically just keep changing seasonsal dates around.

[Stratos Ferric]

How about simplifying things

- given last summer and winter perhaps we should just keep to two seasons Spring and Autumn :lol:

This one comes around every year, in fact it is more reliable than proper winter weather.

Accepting that the seasons have an astronomical definition, and another convenient definition for the purposes of statistical bookkeeping, I would offer.

Spring, Mar 1 - May 15: Summer, May 16 - Aug 31: Autumn, Sept 1 - Dec 31: Winter Jan 1 - Feb 28. There's a case for renaming winter "deep autumn" or for splitting the period into two halves: 'deep autumn' and 'early or pre-spring'.

All of that said, I will persist with the two starting definitions. The renaming is reflection of change in actuality c.f. expectation; there is no saying that winter must be wintry, even though in an adjectival sense it becomes a misnomer.

[Thundery wintry showers]

One problem with redefining winter, spring et al. is that the daylight doesn't get any longer at the same time of year. Warmer doesn't always mean sunnier, and it certainly doesn't mean that the longer days arrive more quickly.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

How about "The Season Formerly Known As Winter"?

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

How about "The Season Formerly Known As Winter"?

Yeah...like when it was 1999.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

The year the rain was purple?

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

The year the rain was purple?

Indeed. The year of the big Diamond and Pearl heist.

[stewfox]

This one comes around every year, in fact it is more reliable than proper winter weather.

Accepting that the seasons have an astronomical definition, and another convenient definition for the purposes of statistical bookkeeping, I would offer.

Spring, Mar 1 - May 15: Summer, May 16 - Aug 31: Autumn, Sept 1 - Dec 31: Winter Jan 1 - Feb 28. There's a case for renaming winter "deep autumn" or for splitting the period into two halves: 'deep autumn' and 'early or pre-spring'.

All of that said, I will persist with the two starting definitions. The renaming is reflection of change in actuality c.f. expectation; there is no saying that winter must be wintry, even though in an adjectival sense it becomes a misnomer.

I don’t think you could just go by temp but day light is a factor

To have mid December when its dark by cira 4pm and not light till 8am as a Autumn month makes no sense to me

If 1^st feb was the new start to spring you could switch to BST then

[Duncan McAlister]

It doesn't work meteorologically though - February is on average colder than December and is about level pegging with January. We're having a few warm days just now, but it won't always be the case - not even this week! It's worth remembering that many plants were late in winter 2005/6 because of the very cold first 3 weeks of March, so a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of mild winters I think. I'd stick with the Met Office definitions of:

Winter: Dec-Feb

Spring: Mar-May

Summer: Jun-Aug

Autumn: Sep-Nov

[stewfox]

It doesn't work meteorologically though - February is on average colder than December and is about level pegging with January. We're having a few warm days just now, but it won't always be the case - not even this week! It's worth remembering that many plants were late in winter 2005/6 because of the very cold first 3 weeks of March, so a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of mild winters I think. I'd stick with the Met Office definitions of:

Winter: Dec-Feb

Spring: Mar-May

Summer: Jun-Aug

Autumn: Sep-Nov

I dont think its a good idea as well at present but if for the next 50yrs the daffs or what ever comes up 4 weeks early its a bit silly to keep saying spring starts says 21st March when nature doesnt (How do you define Spring ?)

I think the easiest one is Summer

You can have a warm spring day late May or warm Autumn day early September much of that transition is governed by daylight particulary as you enter September

[flagpole]

No.

Does that help?

[Cat 5]

Lets jkust leave it as follows!

Dec/Jan/Feb = Winter

Mar/Apr/May = Spring

Jun/Jul/Aug = Summer

Sep/Oct/Nov = Autumn

[I remember Atlantic 252]

yeah possibly in the christmas pudding, but not for Scotland, for my area feb is a spring month warm sun, January an autumn month, the snow i had was really Spring snow so yeah february should be spring for S england

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

the snow i had was really Spring snow

Sorry Mark. But seriously, i've never heard snow described in terms of a season.

[Stratos Ferric]

Sorry Mark. But seriously, i've never heard snow described in terms of a season.

...then you don't ski. On piste "spring snow" has a very definite meaning and refers to the tendency for an icy crust to form as daytime temperatures first climb above freezing, inducing a thaw, which refreezes overnight (or used to). First thing in the morning the off-piste is like corrugated iron, and hard to ski; later in the day it is too soft and wet, like porridge; but there is an hour or so, depending on aspect as well, during which the surface is velvety with just enough give to make it one of the most forgiving of pistes.

I don't think you could just go by temp but day light is a factor

To have mid December when its dark by cira 4pm and not light till 8am as a Autumn month makes no sense to me

If 1^st feb was the new start to spring you could switch to BST then

All of which simply proves that before designing the detail one should start with design principles. If you decide what the factors are that determine a season, then one can start plotting the precise solution.

[The PIT]

Winter = Jan

Spring = Feb March April May

Summer = June July August September

Autumn = October November December.

[MAF]

No, the seasons should remain with the dates they have. or should we also change the eqiunoxes and what happens if the next 5 winters start early or finish late?? if it ain't broke, why fix it??

[Optimus Prime]

You can't base changing the seasons on 10 years of relative warming. Ask again in 2,000 years.

For the time being the weather can get cold enough to call it winter weather.

[Shiny_Bottom_1]

...then you don't ski.

Actually...well...no. Hence why I guess i've never heard of it. I like a bit of Kabuddi though.

[stewfox]

No, the seasons should remain with the dates they have. or should we also change the eqiunoxes and what happens if the next 5 winters start early or finish late?? if it ain't broke, why fix it??

It is broke thats the whole point

[MAF]

It is broke thats the whole point

please explain how it is broke, and the last few decades is just not a cycle of weather that the planet is going through in its very long existence. a decade of time is merely a tiny speck in the age of the planet. surely we cant judge how to classify our seasons on a few years of records? oh and talking of which, who is to say we have not been here before? records and data only go back a short time you know

[Thundery wintry showers]

I sometimes see posts as if earlier springs in the sense of it getting warmer, somehow means that the longer daylight sets in more quickly. Unfortunately, it doesn't. Even if we end up in a January with a CET of 10C and frequent maxima into the high teens (would require a very worrying amount of GW to happen for that!), there would still only be 8 hours' daylight.

It might be that the weather becomes less traditionally seasonal (as has, in my view, been the trend over the past 20 years and especially since the mid 1990s), but we still retain the same issue of summer having long warm days, winter having short, colder days, and spring and autumn having a transition between the two.

I can understand people talking about the 1st February cold snap as featuring 'spring snow' as temperature wise, it was similar to many recent March polar bursts including the one last year, and even a few recent April ones. It's not a technically accurate phrase but I understand its meaning, it's a bit like talking about "the remnants of Hurricane X" when really, it means "the depression containing the remnants of what was Hurricane X".

There is no official way to name the seasons, either. Meteorologically winter is Dec/Jan/Feb etc, and as a meteorologist that's the definition I stick with, but there are others like the astronomical ones, Professor Lamb's more in-depth classification etc, that also have their points.

[Gray-Wolf]

I sometimes see posts as if earlier springs in the sense of it getting warmer, somehow means that the longer daylight sets in more quickly. Unfortunately, it doesn't. Even if we end up in a January with a CET of 10C and frequent maxima into the high teens (would require a very worrying amount of GW to happen for that!), there would still only be 8 hours' daylight.

It might be that the weather becomes less traditionally seasonal (as has, in my view, been the trend over the past 20 years and especially since the mid 1990s), but we still retain the same issue of summer having long warm days, winter having short, colder days, and spring and autumn having a transition between the two.

I can understand people talking about the 1st February cold snap as featuring 'spring snow' as temperature wise, it was similar to many recent March polar bursts including the one last year, and even a few recent April ones. It's not a technically accurate phrase but I understand its meaning, it's a bit like talking about "the remnants of Hurricane X" when really, it means "the depression containing the remnants of what was Hurricane X".

There is no official way to name the seasons, either. Meteorologic ally winter is Dec/Jan/Feb etc, and as a meteorologist that's the definition I stick with, but there are others like the astronomical ones, Professor Lamb's more in-depth classification etc, that also have their points.

If we end up with a winter min of 13c then no matter how long it's dark it doesn't hinder 'outside activities' (which 'winter certainly does!) so maybe we should be reflecting our 'habits' in our seasonal nomenclature?