North Sea Fog ( Haar)

[Rollo]

Living approximately 12 miles from the North sea we have for many years been plagued by the above phenonema, I have noticed in more recent times an apparent reduction in it's frequency during easterly spells in spring. Is this due to higher North sea temperatures or just a cyclical occurrence ?

[Bottesford]

Being 100+ miles (I think) from the coast we don't get the fog but we do get North Sea Low Cloud. I haven't noticed a reduction in that generally although it has been absent for most of this spring which has made for a good spring! Isn't it the difference between the air & sea temps that creates the fog/low cloud?

[reef]

We had it quite a lot during the first half of June 2007, since then however, there has been a definite lack of it. Whether we are looking at a reduction (permanent or not) or if it is to do with warmer SSTs remains to be seen, but its something I have definitely noticed.

The theme now seems to be quite clear air, but supressed temperatures. Essentially what we'd expect when winds are south of east. However, even in this spell when then wind has been straight easterly, it has remained clear and sunny.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I don't really know why, but some easterly flows do seem to provide rather more sea fog and/or low cloud than others.

For instance in Cleadon, the easterlies during the middle part of May 1998 brought sea fog overnight, which would then burn off during the day to leave sunshine. A similar synoptic setup in May 2000 brought almost a fortnight of low stratocumulus (which in my experience is far harder to burn off than sea fog, as was demonstrated by the dullness of that period). On the other hand, winds were predominantly easterly during the first half of May 2001, and the weather was much like it is now- sunny but with suppressed temperatures.

I don't remember a great deal of sea fog during the famous August 1995 either, there was some of it around during the first few days, but otherwise the east coast stayed largely in the clear despite frequent easterly winds (e.g. Sunderland had 261 hours of sunshine for the month, and Tynemouth 268 hours, both some 60% above the average). But during the hot August 1997, sea fog was a regular occurrence.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

NSMLC a spoiler to summer mornings or even whole days as has been known here, think id rather have the fog of haar than just grey nothingness

[Thundery wintry showers]

Looks like a classic case of it here:

http://www.southshields-weather.co.uk/Toda...9;s_weather.htm

Apparently it's still sunny and decently warm in Cleadon though- such are the localised differences with sea fog!

Edited May 10, 2008 by Thundery wintry showers

[SP1986]

I imagine some of our eastern counterparts will find out tomorrow onwards.

[PersianPaladin]

The microclimatic variations along the north-east coast and differentials between that and 10+ miles further inland....can be very notable.

An example of this was on the last day of August 2005; it was very warm inland and reached the high twenties here on the edge of Durham City. However, we were in Warkworth, Northumberland that day and during the early afternoon there would be occasional incursions of mist and low-cloud that would linger and we actually got our coats on eventually! I didnt have a thermometer on me; but it felt worryingly chilly given how warm it was back inland when we got home. Then the thunderstorms arrived.......

I do have a pet-theory about why there is such microclimatic variation along this coastal region; despite a consistent prevailing wind at both the lower and intermediate hpa levels. It of course does depend on the orientation of the anticyclone; but sea temperatures further out at sea in the North Sea are somewhat warmer than further towards the coastal regions; although there is STILL variation here in terms of actual temperatures in a cross-section of local coastline. As a result of this; at some point we get sea-breeze frontogenesis where the resulting local gradient is most steep; the front can also be enhanced by localised lower level wind-convergence which can help development of stratus. Such enchancing eddies are as transient as the localised haar in which they manifest, however.

Edited May 10, 2008 by PersianPaladin

[shuggee]

The haar is common here. Living only 3 miles from the Firth of Forth, we've already had mornings of it in the last week - clearing around 11am. Whilst the city centre sits in fog at 10ºC, the airport inland by only another 5 or 6 miles reports sunshine and 19ºC. I have even seen the east end of Princes Street around Waverley station stuck in 50m visibility fog - whilst the West End, around half a mile away behind the castle is in strong sunshine - such is the local nature of the effect of the haar - quite stunning B)

As for its annual appearances, I noticed it was hardly a feature last year at all - but apart from that I can't remember a year when May/June hasn't been blighted by it in some way. And this year seems to be back to business as usual. Without any statistical analysis - but based on my own observations of the sea anomaly temps every couple of weeks - I don't think there has been a trend at all for the north sea to be sufficiently warmer than average to affect the weather in this way. Indeed it's bang on average atm. LINK

(Interesting to hear northern English folk using the Scottish name 'Haar' - it was always called a 'sea fret' when I was young and growing up in Sheffield, holidaying in Cleethorpes and Skeggy B) )

[PersianPaladin]

The haar is common here. Living only 3 miles from the Firth of Forth, we've already had mornings of it in the last week - clearing around 11am. Whilst the city centre sits in fog at 10ºC, the airport inland by only another 5 or 6 miles reports sunshine and 19ºC. I have even seen the east end of Princes Street around Waverley station stuck in 50m visibility fog - whilst the West End, around half a mile away behind the castle is in strong sunshine - such is the local nature of the effect of the haar - quite stunning B)

As for its annual appearances, I noticed it was hardly a feature last year at all - but apart from that I can't remember a year when May/June hasn't been blighted by it in some way. And this year seems to be back to business as usual. Without any statistical analysis - but based on my own observations of the sea anomaly temps every couple of weeks - I don't think there has been a trend at all for the north sea to be sufficiently warmer than average to affect the weather in this way. Indeed it's bang on average atm. LINK

(Interesting to hear northern English folk using the Scottish name 'Haar' - it was always called a 'sea fret' when I was young and growing up in Sheffield, holidaying in Cleethorpes and Skeggy B) )

Now that is pretty damn cool and partly why I love local variation and meteorology in general!

Haaar haar!

[shuggee]

It's fantastic PP - sat on a bus heading west going from murkyness and fog to clear blue skies in literally 3 or 4 minutes. Watching the whispyness of the edge of the fog bank - and all in the centre of a city.

[J07]

Being 100+ miles (I think) from the coast

Slight exaggeration there! There is nowhere in the UK more than 80 miles from a coast of some description, and Nottingham certainly isn't 100 miles from the North Sea.

[PersianPaladin]

Haar has its origins in lowland Scottish I believe; and I do think that some words in this part of north-east England are also shared with that origin.

[shuggee]

lol J07. If you ever used Central Trains to get from Skeggy back to Nottingham - you'd be forgiven for thinking it was 150 miles!

[J07]

lol J07. If you ever used Central Trains to get from Skeggy back to Nottingham - you'd be forgiven for thinking it was 150 miles!

That would require me to visit Skegness in the first place

[PersianPaladin]

That would require me to visit Skegness in the first place

Heh..why would you want to. New Zealand has its own beauty.

I'm sure you have your own interesting coastal microclimates too btw.

[J07]

Heh..why would you want to. New Zealand has its own beauty.

I'm sure you have your own interesting coastal microclimates too btw.

Well I've no reason or intention of ever returning to the UK, but if I do....maybe I should pop to Bognor and Skeggie

I think most of the interesting coastal microclimates here result from rapid orographic ascent. The fjords are pretty wierd (never get fog) but few people live there. The whole West Coast goes from sea level to 2000m in 20 miles.

Christchurch has a prevailing NE breeze, inland areas don't get this so don't get the winter fog.

Wellington is susceptible to sea fog, but not radiation fog, whilst nearby valleys get the opposite.

[damianslaw]

I've had the delights of North Sea fret on many an occasion travelling to and from the centre of Newcastle and Sunderland every day.

Not many days last year, but in 2006 there were quite a few days during the summer when I would leave Newcastle in blazing sun at 8 in the morning only to be greeted by the fret in Sunderland half an hour later and a matter of 10 miles distant. Often the fret appears about 2 miles inland and on some of those days it persisted for much of the day again on return to Newcastle I was greeted by heat and sun.

[Thundery wintry showers]

South Shields webcam now full of the stuff:

http://www.southshields-weather.co.uk/Toda...9;s_weather.htm

[Rollo]

South Shields webcam now full of the stuff:

http://www.southshields-weather.co.uk/Toda...9;s_weather.htm

Its just about burnt off here TWS but remains very hazy. Thanks for the replies everyone.

[PersianPaladin]

No haar here, albeit the sunshine is hazy.

[Roger J Smith]

We get this effect here on the west coast of N America a lot. It is just called sea fog when it's thick and "the marine layer" when it's elevated a bit.

It tends to come in a lot during the late summer and autumn months and can be very thick fog at times, with very sharp edges that persist all day. Sometimes in the downtown core of Vancouver, you get this really strange lighting effect with the sea fog over parts close to the water and the taller high rise buildings emerging into the sun, so that you get weird interference patterns and the buildings seem to be floating like icebergs but with the light strobing on the windows.

Something very similar to the haar would be the fog that moves inland from the Great Lakes in the spring months, on any suitable direction of wind. The western end of Lake Ontario is particularly bad for it because that lake stays colder than the rest, other than Superior which is almost always shrouded in fog during the summer.

And also the coasts of Maine and Nova Scotia get plenty of dense fog in summer as the humid air masses move north from the east coast of the U.S. and encounter water that is even colder than the North Sea due to the Labrador Current.

The only haar I got on my visit to Rollo-land was on the golf course after various shots, but that's a different story.

[Nick H]

Slight exaggeration there! There is nowhere in the UK more than 80 miles from a coast of some description, and Nottingham certainly isn't 100 miles from the North Sea.

Yes, Cotton in the Elms near Tamworth in Derbyshire is an oft-cited claimant to the title of furthest in the UK from the sea, being 70 miles away from the Wash.

Nottingham is 55 miles from Boston. You must have been on the whacky stuff, Botty

Edited May 12, 2008 by Nick H

[Scorcher]

I noticed that the haar seemed to affect the Middlesbrough v Man City football match yesterday at the Riverside. The referee asked for the floodlights to be put on during the second half and in the words of the commentator it was 'absolutely freezing' while places further south and west were still enjoying temps in the low to mid twenties.

[NL]

Haar bloody haar, i hate the stuff, cold wet and damn right miserable, oh how i hate living on the

north sea coast......