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Is it possible to discuss Climate Change?


Paul

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Posted
  • Location: A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Guildford, Surrey
  • Location: A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Guildford, Surrey

Why is it unrealistic to expect people to be polite to one another?

Why is it unrealistic to expect people to say, "I disagree," as opposed to, "that's a load of rubbish"?

Why is it unrealistic to expect people to proofread their posts before posting so as to avoid unpleasantries?

I think it was Snowbear who said earlier (apologies to the relevant parties if it wasn't!) that things can't "just slip out" on a message board - in everyday conversation perhaps, but not on a message board where every word has to be thought about and then typed. Message boards are not spontaneous, by their very nature, and to suggest that a little bit of due deference will ruin the supposed spontaneity is ridiculous.

CB

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

C-Bob, on the whole we are ALL naturally polite to one another. We are focusing in on so few posts that we are in danger of dismissing the drifts of posts that are just what everyone is hankering for.

I do not recognise an enviro section that is full of disrespect,insult,impoliteness. Yes, occasionally these 'lesser attributes' of humanity slip in and all I am trying (and failing it would seem) to put across is that it is human to err.

I know that you ,yourself, have left the section because you felt things were becoming less 'enjoyable' for you C-Bob. We all need a break from time to time. But just how many posts have you placed in science and enviro without anything distasteful resulting?

As always the few spoil it for the many where the 'few' are the posts you did not enjoy and the 'many' are all the rest that you enjoyed.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater eh?

EDIT: C-Bob, this is not the 'real' world but ,at times, folk treat it exactly the same.

They do act in haste ,they do take umbridge, they do get cross, they do say and do things that ,when 'cool', they would not. Though we all strive (in both the real world and here) to be the best 'us' that we can we ARE only human.

If it is only me then I am deeply sorry that I am so flawed, I hope the board supports disability and deformity with tollerance.

Edited by Gray-Wolf
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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

Politeness costs nothing, expecting courtesy isn't being unrealistic nor is it displaying a tendency to be a goody two shoes; it's just how a civilised world gets along with one another. Familiar banter like response is fine, but does it have to be derogatory in anyway? Sorry, don't think so.

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
Politeness costs nothing, expecting courtesy isn't being unrealistic nor is it displaying a tendency to be a goody two shoes; it's just how a civilised world gets along with one another. Familiar banter like response is fine, but does it have to be derogatory in anyway? Sorry, don't think so.

Hi Jethro!

and soap is cheap too! We ALL know how we ought to behave, we all (surely?) do our best to be these things but, and I say again, is it not human to err?

I think that , just like the threads ,we may be at crossed purposes here.

I am in no way defending intolerant,insulting,intimidating,down right rude behaviours (if anyone thinks so then ask yourself 'why' I would seek to do that?) I am just trying to get everyone off their tall equines so we can realistically talk about the issues the thread seeks to address.

Once again, we all know (or should know) how to behave. On the whole we all do behave. Occasionally, as in life, things get ugly (bad morning,PMS,wife left) and things get displaced onto the threads. Though not admirable behaviour it happens.

We do not tolerate 'baddies' and they seem to disappear very quickly through the measures already in place to deal with that kinda' thing.

I do not think that we want to move towards greater intolerance of human frailties and seek to sanction punishments for those already in torment.

If you've done any psychology (even at A Level) then you'll be aware of how critters in pain lash out at that closet too them. It is an innate response. Can we not just be tolerant of the 'slips' we all make instead of insisting that it isn't too much to ask never to err?

Edited by Gray-Wolf
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Posted
  • Location: Cambridgeshire Fens. 3m ASL
  • Location: Cambridgeshire Fens. 3m ASL

Some people will post, not just on this thread to cause arguments intentionally or as a wind up. Being polite about someone else's opinion costs nothing.

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Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
I think the trouble is that we are looking at different groups of debaters....

Group 1 : There are accepted, peer reviewed, methods of investigation and evidence which are used within academic/educated circles to show/critique/investigate current thought and methods.

Group 2 : There are hunches based on logic which the group 1s need to investigate to see whether there is any basis in the hunch

Group 3 : There are websites/thoughts/newspaper articles, etc, etc which are nothing more than gut reaction/opinion and are not related to evidence or either of the above groups and which, to be honest, have no place in debate.

To be absolutely honest, what I would really like to see is less opinion and more evidence: A lot less group 3 and loads more 1 & 2.

In truth, when talking about science, not every opinion is valid. Debate is also not about opinion, it is about showing why you can demonstrate something to be true/likely, using evidence. If we do not do that then we are not debating but are having nothing more than an unregulated conversation of nonsense, which does nothing to help/educate/enlighten anyone. It should be moved into the cafe, if that is the case.

Unfortunately its group 3 that will decide what we as a race will do with regard to climate change

Im also afraid debate is often about opinion (informed or not) ,wether that comes from group 1,2 or 3 largely depends on the persons back ground

People are allowed to vote without a law degree and Government and Politics wether their 'debate' on issues of government is less worthy is of course a 'mute point'. They are however not 'excluded'

Im surprised that people are 'surprised' that the arguement re climate change is circular.

If we 'debated' who would win re Germany v Turkey match in the European cup we could have a circular 'debate' until the result is known.

Edited by stewfox
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Posted
  • Location: Colchester, Essex, UK (33m ASL)
  • Location: Colchester, Essex, UK (33m ASL)

GW, who exactly are you referring to as a goody two shoes?

I do not see why respect and manners cannot be part of the section. How many folks have stopped posting here because of the insults, disrespect etc? Doesn't that say something about how the forum is not running right? Isn't it a good thing that we wish to make all welcome into the discussions without fear of being ridiculed, intimidated, bad mouthed etc?

Oh, btw, this isn't coming from me because I am a "goody two shoes" as you put it, I just see no place for a pub style brawl and childish behaviour when we are talking about what is probably the most important subject that the human population is going to encounter in the next 100 years bar a catastrophe such as a meteor strike. It is important we have facts, good discussion, clear discussion and not a ream of insults, intimidation and name calling that has appeared here in the past. We also do not want to put new folk off, nor intimidate regulars into leaving the forum because they are looking into topics which may not be the main stream.

In the last ten years I have seen this world degenerate into bad attitude, nastiness, and disgusting disrespect, guess you would like that to be on here too GW, perhaps I am getting you wrong? If I am I am sorry, I would have though it would be obvious that on past record we have to have an almost zero toleration due to people not being able to control themselves. Is there at least one place where we are going to be mature enough and polite enough to be able to hold a serious discussion and debate about Climate Change? I don't give a crap about forums elsewhere, if they want to run their forum in a bar room brawl style then so be it. When truth comes along they will miss the boat.

It has been established on this thread that we cannot have a serious climate change area without strict rules which unfortunately possibly mean your "entertaining" style of debate cannot be allowed. If any lee way is given people take the stick and run a mile with it. So what do you do in the "real world" of moderation? You make sure there are strict rules and as we have seen elsewhere on NetWeather a specific place for banter...the banter thread, and all other threads are clear of it, why is it different for here? Why do the rules have to be different for this section GW?

I will never accept that insults, abuse, swearing or otherwise just "slip out" in the world of forums and chat, each letter is typed, in all my years now of chat moderation, chat hosting, and forum admin and moderation not once have I found a person who can convince me otherwise nor convince any other admin or mod I know. There is no excuse.

Edited by SnowBear
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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
Some people will post, not just on this thread to cause arguments intentionally or as a wind up.

And those ,I suspect, are the 'baddies' who mysteriously disappear after a short while.

This whole subject is far more complex than some are trying to make out and whether they (the posters who are being 'black and white') realise it or not they are oversimplifying things to the point of seeming unrealistic (IMHO).

Other discussions, apart from the odd one on the 'serious discussion' thread, are not dealing with subjects that could spell the premature death for many of both us and our children. When the stakes are truely that high (and ,as things currently stand, it would appear that this is not outlining the 'doomsday scenario' but the accepted wisdom of the moment) then things are truely charged (in a very human and understandable way).

Those who either have no knowledge of ,or dismiss the science of, global warming and it's forecast impacts may feel that everyone should act with grace and decorum at every step of the debate (how very 'British' What?). Those who are fearful for their own premature demise or the lingering deaths that may befall their children may be a little more impatient than that and ,in fact, quite angry at those who belittle their 'understandings by dismissing their acceptance of majority scientific opinion.

Who needs the 'worry' in their heads? who welcomes the 'worry' in their heads? What kind of psychopath does it take to cohabit with the 'worry' and not be affect by it on the deepest level of their psyche's?

So, though we all know how to behave, though we all know how we ought to behave, we sometimes fail because of our human frailties when they are placed within the enormity of THE most frightening threat to ever face humanity in it's short existance.....however little it all costs us!

Edited by Gray-Wolf
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Posted
  • Location: Colchester, Essex, UK (33m ASL)
  • Location: Colchester, Essex, UK (33m ASL)

No it is not slipping down hill Wibs, this I think has been coming for a long time, and maybe good will come from this thread as it will eventually define exactly how we are to go forward in this important area :)

We can always delete it afterwards but for now, I think it is important to "thrash it out" as it were.

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Posted
  • Location: Aviemore
  • Location: Aviemore

I think now is probably a good time to draw a line under this one - I think some interesting stuff has come out of the discussion and it has certainly provided some valuable pointers towards what we need to try and achieve and how to achieve it, along with some good insights as to what we'll need to deal with along the way as well!

As ever, if you have any ideas/thoughts about things, pm any member of the team or indeed the council.

Cheers

Paul

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