Alps Weather And Skiing Conditions

[john w]

Pretty disastourous on the GFS and Ensemble for the next 2 weeks for the Western Alps.....hardly a cm of snow in sight...for the three-valleys and paradisski are...2 i am going to within the next 3 weeks...looks like there is none to fall. Models looked good going on a trend of 5 or 6 wet runs...but now there have been 3 dry ones too!

Not sure what to make of this. Hopefully they will get some shot at either a decent west or north-westerley

[johnholmes]

how much snow do you want mate?

So long as there is no appreciable snow I'll be content with what Wengen has at the moment IF there is no marked thaw.

[Candice]

how much snow do you want mate?

So long as there is no appreciable snow I'll be content with what Wengen has at the moment IF there is no marked thaw.

Was in Lauterbrunnen over Xmas - Wengen has got plenty - conditions were pretty nigh on perfect!

[johnholmes]

I keep promising myself to spend Xmas and then go back for my skiing at my usual haunt in Wengen; maybe when I have to pack skiing up I may do Xmas there.

Lovely spot Lauterbrunnen and the valley although in winter it never gets any sun. The waterfalls or rather icefalls are really spectacular

[Candice]

I keep promising myself to spend Xmas and then go back for my skiing at my usual haunt in Wengen; maybe when I have to pack skiing up I may do Xmas there.

Lovely spot Lauterbrunnen and the valley although in winter it never gets any sun. The waterfalls or rather icefalls are really spectacular

One of the waterfalls (outside) was actually still water although we couldn't got into the mountain ones, apparently they are closed in winte.. Lauterbrunnen itself was beautiful and sunny but as you say the valley generally doesn't get any sun in winter. We were actually based in Engelberg but went over to Wengen/Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald for a day. Lauterbrunnen was plus 5 and Grindelwald was minus 5 - about an hour later! Excellent snow in Engelberg as well - excellent runs on the Titlis - only one black run.

[john w]

Well i dont want snow when I am there obviously...nothing worse than a white out.

However, reports for off piste are that it is very windblown and could do with a fresh cover...but i only speak the resorts I am going to.

The pistes in all are reported to be excellent...I dont think skiclub does much justive when it reports Hrad, POwder, Good for the pistes....the only difference I have ever noticed at the top is when its particularly soft because it has melted.

Bases are plenty...just hope there is a sprinkle for the paradiski area before I go so the off piste stuff is a bit more covered.

Anyway the 18z has bought more moisture back for sun 18th...but still a little too far away for any certainty.

I went to Wengen in the summer, absolutely love the walk from klein sceidegg down to gridelwald and wengen....never contemplated going from one via klein to the other though :S

[johnholmes]

the walking is perhaps even better than the skiing

Walked the Eiger trail, right underneath the Eiger wall

First to Buchalpsee and on to Faulhorn

Many others and the views are always utterly superb, the walks, whatever grade are superbly sign posted and the inns/cafés etc dotted along all the walks are quite first class. Valley walking or low level walking in early summer is equally lovely, the flowers are fantastic, and as the summer develops so this extends further and further up the mountains.

I've been going to the same hotel in Wengen skiing for over 20 years and only started walking in the area in summer about 6 years ago, wonderful both, try it.

Edited January 11, 2009 by johnholmes

[john w]

Ill have to make it a ski destination...have to agree with the signposting though, one of the best I think I have ever been to.

Went to Grindalwald 2 summers back and about 4 and 6 years ago...kind o a bi-yearly thing making me think I must visit this summer. But never skied...always thought it would be so expensive...but then compared to france its prob not that bad.

Might give the eiger trail a go if we go again this summer.

[johnholmes]

not really that much more expensive than either Italy or France.

A coffee at 8000ft is around sfr 2.50, okay our pound has lost value, but in reality the cost is about the same as 3-4 years ago.

What is always, or rarely not first class is the service, and done with a smile; not necessarily by locals, Australians, Japanese, British, all nationalities, but they take the Swiss way, politeness and efficiency, but its usually much the same in any European country, apart from the major cities, or that is how I find it the last 5-8 years travelling around.

Edited January 11, 2009 by johnholmes

[Mondy]

Is it really worth it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7822567.stm

[john w]

Delta X-Ray its a serious question and one i dont know anyone could answer seriously.

When you go on the mountain you take a risk, even more of a risk if you are headed off piste. On piste, somoene could collide in to you, you could loose control and hit a tree....there is always a risk. But then...there is always a risk whenever you drive, even walking has its risks.

What these extremists do is go beyond what is probably a socially accepted norm. I appreciate the off piste is more risky and i take all necessary steps to reduce that risk as much as possible. I know from my degree, experience etc what slopes are classic for avalanches...what snow is classic for avalanches and how day 1 can be very very different from day 2. However I would never contemplate climbing a mountain in the winter...especially as high as some of the ones in chamonix.

The problem with climbing I think is you loose communication. I dont think they even test the slope stability of upper mountins where if there were to be an avalanche it would do no harm. So changing condions aloft probably were not reported to these 2 lads who tragically lost their lives. However im sure they would have been well aware of the risk. So is it worth it...I honestly dont know....I love skiing and I expect JH and all others in this thread do to. (Sorry for making it off topic) but is it worth it....when someone dies i guess not...but for me it is arguably the best 2-3 weeks of the winter for me.

[Maz]

Delta X-Ray:

Is it really worth it?

John W, puts it really well in his post. There is risk in all mountain activities, there is also enormous reward, pleasure and satisfaction from being out there. Only the individual climber/skier etc can decide whether its worth it for them.

Antony

[Great Plum]

Is it really worth it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7822567.stm

I knew both Rob Gaunteltt and James Atkinson, the two chaps who died ice climbing over the weekend. They went to my old school and I used to instruct them both in Scouts. This really was a tragic disaster and my thoughts go out to their families.

However, Rob knew what he was doing - this is a man who was the youngest to climb Everest and had gone from Pole to Pole under his own power, with James Hooper. He would have known he had taken a risk - my only comfort is that he died doing something he loved.

[J10]

After looking a today's charts, it could get very snowy across the Alps next week if the CZ ( cold zonality) gets going as is currently forecasted.

The next snow depth update across the Alps will be tomorrow.

It is tragic to hear about the deaths of those two climbers, and my thoughts go out to the families concerned.

[Trace Frosti Sr]

Is it really worth it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7822567.stm

Sir, I think all climbers know that the take a huge risk; the reward is the exhileration of the feats they achieve, reaching places that very few others ever know - places both in the external, and internal, world. I vaguelly recall reading a piece by Sir Chris Bonnington a few years ago, in which he mused that many mountaineers know that they may well die doing what they love.

I rather envy anyone who has that freedom of spirit. I always enjoyed the line quoted in The Blade Runner...the light that burns the brightest burns the least long.

[john w]

My thoughts too to the families and especially the poster I think 2 below me who knew the boys.

Going back on topic I agree Jack (Is your name even Jack???) that it could get wintry across the alps next week. Many of the models now seem to be consistant on the precipitation heading the alps way. Scandinavia and also some of the Dolomities look set to have a very good week. However for me...who was complaining this week looked poor, it looks like gogles and a snood may need to be donned!

The models dont seem to have gotten the hand on temperature yet thoughwith freezing levels all over the place. The 12z was a good run following on from a good 00z which I caught at 11:00 just before the forecast updated to the 06z. In summary

00z Event Sun-Mon with temps well below freezing, most of next week with sporadic showers but temps favouring

06z Event Sun-Mon with lower totals, but rest of week drier with temps and freezing levels below about 1500 (For west alps)

12z (Best of the last 6 or 7 runs) Went for a same significant event sun-mon but a colder week with lots of what appeared to be indicated as overnight snow.

18z which I have just had a chance to review including ECMWF and Ensembles seems to be much wetter than the 12z but indicating temps will be slightly higher...though for Bern ensembles the operational does seem to be close to the mean and so it may go cooler again.

I have 2 questions:

1. Jackone is your name really jack....as I prefer to be personable in posts

2. With the predicted precipitation volumes I notice it quotes mm. Now does this quote the snow depth in mm expected or the rainfall depth in mm...AND does the model you use to interpret GFS differentiate between snow and rain for the resorts??

In other words...say Avoriaz in France (First I could think of). Say its level is 1800. If it shows 12.98mm of precipitation is expected and the freezing level is 2500...does that mean 12.98mm of rain. Importantly...if the freezing level was 500m...would it still show 12.98mm as precipitation or would it show the equivilent snow depth which going on the average would sum as 12cm going on the 1mm=1cm ratio

[J10]

Latest Updates, 3 Jan in brackets.

France

Alpe d'Huez 65cm/135cm (70cm / 120cm) 7 Jan 3cm

Chatel 90cm/130cm (85cm/106cm) 6 Jan 5cm

Courchevel 55cm/78cm (57cm/83cm) 7 Jan 5cm

Morzine 40cm/150cm (40cm/160cm) 1 Jan 10cm

Tignes 102cm/165cm (83cm/130cm) 8 Jan 10cm

Val Thorens 65cm/100cm (65cm/100cm) 8 Jan 10cm

Switzerland

Wengen 40cm/65cm (50cm/75cm) 1 Jan 8cm

Zermatt 60cm/290cm (65cm/200cm) 8 Jan 5cm

Italy

Bormio 35cm/290cm (35cm/290cm) 6 Jan 3cm

Austria

Saalbach 40cm/125cm (40cm/125cm) 1 Jan 3cm

Niederau 40cm/80cm (40cm/80cm) 1 Jan 5cm

Generally there has not been that much new snow in recent weeks, but the cold temperatures has kept the snow levels pretty much constant.

In reply to John

1. My name is Julian

2. On the NW snow ski charts, i think the precipitation shows the amount of rain/snow to fall, so you would NOT have to multiply the figure by 10 (approx) to get the snowfall figure, as you mat notice when snow is forecast the amounts can be a lot higher than if rain is forecast, but I am not 100% sure.

[J10]

Just a quick and late reminder that the latest ski blogs have been saved in the usual place.

http://www.netweather.tv/forum/index.php?showtopic=52592

Also be interested to hear views on the season so far, after another good start it seems that snow falls have been a bit erratic lately and while it has been generally cold, January has been a little disappointing month yet again.

[ukmoose]

Just a quick and late reminder that the latest ski blogs have been saved in the usual place.

http://www.netweather.tv/forum/index.php?showtopic=52592

Also be interested to hear views on the season so far, after another good start it seems that snow falls have been a bit erratic lately and while it has been generally cold, January has been a little disappointing month yet again.

I think that's right, Jackone. The same pattern for the last few year seems at the moment to be repeating.

If it continues, February will be worse still with milder temperatures at low levels with unreliable snow and rain at lower levels and then it will probably pick up again for March (and last year, April). This would be very disappointing from a personal point of view as we are skiing at half term in February. The last few have been erratic at best.

There seems to have been a marked slow down in snowfall with levels now seemingly falling back to long term average amounts having been quite a bit above through December. It hasn't been overly warm yet but there needs to be a bit of a turnaround I think if this February is going to break the mould of the last few.

[J10]

Slightly off topic but live coverage on this years Winter Sports continues on BBCi next Saturday with coverage form Kitzbuhel.

A repeat of last night Ski Sunday is on (BBC2) tonight with coverage from Wengen.

[johnny1972]

Was in Hinterglemm, Austria from the 10th - 17th January 09 and the conditions were perfect. Plenty of snow with a light top up on the wednesday 14th. However on the way back to the airport the south facing slopes were suffering. The valleys and north facing slopes however (out of the sun) remained loaded with snow. Fantastic holiday. for anyone heading off - enjoy !!

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

Was in Hinterglemm, Austria from the 10th - 17th January 09 and the conditions were perfect. Plenty of snow with a light top up on the wednesday 14th. However on the way back to the airport the south facing slopes were suffering. The valleys and north facing slopes however (out of the sun) remained loaded with snow. Fantastic holiday. for anyone heading off - enjoy !!

Hi Johnny

Yes it was superb..........god it was cold at night for first 3 nights!!!!! Perfect snow conditions and the snow suffered a little less in Saalbach. I spent the afternoon on Friday on he sunny slopes of Hinterglemm...they were still good. Did you do the Black that lead into Saalbach under the Gondola?

Sorry mods off topic. JO looks like you got some snow forecasting to do next week

BFTP

[J10]

Hi Johnny

Yes it was superb..........god it was cold at night for first 3 nights!!!!! Perfect snow conditions and the snow suffered a little less in Saalbach. I spent the afternoon on Friday on he sunny slopes of Hinterglemm...they were still good. Did you do the Black that lead into Saalbach under the Gondola?

Sorry mods off topic. JO looks like you got some snow forecasting to do next week

BFTP

Discussing the skiing conditions is not off topic and it's nice having the chance to do a bit of snow forecasting , hence my comment over the weekend.

It's also good see some new falls of snow over the Alps today as well.

[johnny1972]

Hi Johnny

Yes it was superb..........god it was cold at night for first 3 nights!!!!! Perfect snow conditions and the snow suffered a little less in Saalbach. I spent the afternoon on Friday on he sunny slopes of Hinterglemm...they were still good. Did you do the Black that lead into Saalbach under the Gondola?

Sorry mods off topic. JO looks like you got some snow forecasting to do next week

BFTP

Hi Blast

I found every night very cold but yes the first 3 particularly so. Slopes all week were in perfect condition. Didnt go near Saalbach. Did the black from top of Zwolferkogel down to the mid station and all the blues and reds off the top of there inc the FIS W.Cup red. Skied the Schattberg West mountain over to the Schattberg Ost mountain and its runs. The 5km red off the top of the West mountain was awesome. Then skied the opposite side blues, reds and the black finishing most days at the GoaBstall !! Plenty of gluwein drank there and then the midnight show made excellent viewing !!!! Did some night skiing as well - great week and going back next year. Trying at moment to get a week somewhere before i head back there at end of January (23rd). Hope you enjoyed your week and of course the apres !! One thing i did notice though was i would question the depths shown of 125cm upper and 40cm lower ! Certainly considerably less in some areas.

[J10]

Hi Blast

I found every night very cold but yes the first 3 particularly so. Slopes all week were in perfect condition. Didnt go near Saalbach. Did the black from top of Zwolferkogel down to the mid station and all the blues and reds off the top of there inc the FIS W.Cup red. Skied the Schattberg West mountain over to the Schattberg Ost mountain and its runs. The 5km red off the top of the West mountain was awesome. Then skied the opposite side blues, reds and the black finishing most days at the GoaBstall !! Plenty of gluwein drank there and then the midnight show made excellent viewing !!!! Did some night skiing as well - great week and going back next year. Trying at moment to get a week somewhere before i head back there at end of January (23rd). Hope you enjoyed your week and of course the apres !! One thing i did notice though was i would question the depths shown of 125cm upper and 40cm lower ! Certainly considerably less in some areas.

Any photos.