The Uk's Coldest City

[Yeti]

That is the problem though, there is no official data for many cities in the UK. I'd still place Leeds colder than York as it varies so much in altitude, there are parts in the N and W that are over 200m, even though the centre is much lower, so it depends if you mean the city centre or other major areas. Certainly High Mowthorpe is not indicative of York and I would say it's much closer to somewhere like where I live - a fair bit colder than both Leeds and York.

Also I think Scots seem to have slightly different criteria as to what constitutes a city shall we say!

[Mandy Langlands]

^^^^^ mmmmnnn explain.

Mandy. x

[Stratos Ferric]

That is the problem though, there is no official data for many cities in the UK. I'd still place Leeds colder than York as it varies so much in altitude, there are parts in the N and W that are over 200m, even though the centre is much lower, so it depends if you mean the city centre or other major areas. Certainly High Mowthorpe is not indicative of York and I would say it's much closer to somewhere like where I live - a fair bit colder than both Leeds and York.

Also I think Scots seem to have slightly different criteria as to what constitutes a city shall we say!

There are official definitions of a city though nowadays it's a royal grant (if we're not careful this discussion wil go the way of one of those periodic, and completely pointless, arguments about whether the CET is representative of the UK as a whole). The old definition / criteria for city status used to be the presence of a cathedral (hence the likes of St David's in Wales qualifies, very legitimately) and / or, if I remember rightly, the presence of a high court.

Your point re location of instrumentation is well made. The UHI effect could easily account for 2-3C on annual average, so on that basis any assessment based on data, whilst alluring, does need to be considered in the light of the actual location of the measuring instruments.

The arguement might best be resolved by refernce to the UK average temperature maps that can be found on the UKMO site.

Carrbridge is colder than Aviemore simply due to altitude - Aviemore 228m, Carrbridge 271m.

I would not of thought of Inverness as the coldest - The Moray and Cromarty Firth keeps coastal areas in that region generally mild.

Not sure that either of those are cities...there should be data for Inverness, there's an airport there.

[Cheese Rice]

It really dependes on where you mean in leeds, Leeds center, or the suburbs of leeds???

Also when the surburbs of leeds on the 4th of Dec all recieved around 5-7cm of snow (not from frontal snow but merged showers). In Kirkstall (surburb close to the city center) there was nothing at all, also the surburbs of leeds are very high up, cookridge (210asl) is the opposite hill to LBA but definatley part of leeds, here tempratures are commonly a good 3.c colder than the center of leeds which is only around 60-70m high up. On the 5th of december leeds center recieved about 5cm of snow at the most, while cookridge recieved 14cm.

Currentley the temprature in leeds center: 4.6c

Temprature in cookridge 210asl (surburb in leeds): 2.7c

There is currentley a 1.9c temprature different, my point is many parts of leeds are at different elevations, this can also apply to other cities, anyway i would say Leeds is this coldest city in uk, although scotland is further north many of the cities are by the coast.

Many are calling towns cities, york is a town so is harogate, Braemar is also a town, there will be colder towns and villages than leeds as leeds is very urbanised.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 10123

[Yeti]

It really dependes on where you mean in leeds, Leeds center, or the suburbs of leeds???

Also when the surburbs of leeds on the 4th of Dec all recieved around 5-7cm of snow (not from frontal snow but merged showers). In Kirkstall (surburb close to the city center) there was nothing at all, also the surburbs of leeds are very high up, cookridge (210asl) is the opposite hill to LBA but definatley part of leeds, here tempratures are commonly a good 3.c colder than the center of leeds which is only around 60-70m high up. On the 5th of december leeds center recieved about 5cm of snow at the most, while cookridge recieved 14cm.

Currentley the temprature in leeds center: 4.6c

Temprature in cookridge 210asl (surburb in leeds): 2.7c

There is currentley a 1.9c temprature different, my point is many parts of leeds are at different elevations, this can also apply to other cities, anyway i would say Leeds is this coldest city in uk, although scotland is further north many of the cities are by the coast.

Many are calling towns cities, york is a town so is harogate, Braemar is also a town, there will be colder towns and villages than leeds as leeds is very urbanised.

You are right in that Leeds has a massive variation in temp depending on where you are, clearly due to the altitude. However I would never, ever say that Harrogate (my town) is a city and nobody has said it is on here either! I think York does qualify as a city, it has many people and lots of influence with its theatres etc.

Edinburgh has colder January temps than Leeds however. And Braemar is most certainly a village, what with its 500 people I think a town is pushing it a bit. This is what I mean about Scots though, how Dundee can be seen as a city (or Inverness for that matter) I've no idea. Inverness has 40,000 people which is considerably less than Harrogate, which is clearly a town. It's because N of the central lowlands there's nowhere except Aberdeen with a decent number of people and so the boundaries are relaxed and villages become major towns etc. This is typical of places with few people; Austrians do the same when they describe Klagenfurt as a major city when it's still only a bit bigger than Harrogate! IMO there are no three cities in Scotland: Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen, the rest are towns. And I don't buy the whole cathedral idea that some people on here are piping out, you're from this area and I'm sure you'll agree that Ripon is not a city.

[Sawel]

Dundee has almost 4 times the population of Inverness. Dundee's population is close to 150,000 and it's the most densely populated city in Scotland.

I would have thought that Perth is the coldest city in Scotland.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Sawel

[Yeti]

Dundee has almost 4 times the population of Inverness. Dundee's population is close to 150,000 and it's the most densely populated city in Scotland.

I would have thought that Perth is the coldest city in Scotland.

Harrogate and Knaresborough (which run into each other) have 158,000 people as opposed to 141,000 in Dundee, that is smaller and yet still classed as a city

[LadyPakal]

'According to the part of the British government known as the Department for Constitutional Affairs:

"City status is a rare mark of distinction granted by the Sovereign and conferred by Letters Patent. It is granted by personal Command of The Queen, on the advice of Her Ministers. It is for Her Majesty The Queen to decide when a competition for city status should be held. Competitions are usually held on occasions such as important Royal anniversaries."

Because of this peculiarity there is a discrepancy between the common meaning of the word 'city' and the 'official' meaning.'

http://www.ukcities.co.uk/definitions/

Scotland has 6 cities:

Aberdeen

Dundee

Edinburgh

Glasgow

Inverness

Stirling

List of cities in the UK:

http://www.ukcities.co.uk/

Edited December 28, 2008 by LadyPakal

[Sawel]

Harrogate and Knaresborough (which run into each other) have 158,000 people as opposed to 141,000 in Dundee, that is smaller and yet still classed as a city

But they're 2 separate places? There's cities in N. Ireland with populations of 20,000- 40,000

[Yeti]

Well the queen doesn't do very much right so I don't like her definition.

Just face it, Scotland is a sparsely populated (and very beautiful) country, but it does tend to over-egg what is a city. I mean come on, Stirling is not a city, that's just a joke! In England it would be an insignificant town!

[Sawel]

Further to LadyP's post about Scotland's cities, I thought Perth was already a city but by it doesn't have legal status just yet. (I've just looked it up) So we can scrub Perth from the snowiest city in Scotland possibility list.

Well the queen doesn't do very much right so I don't like her definition.

Just face it, Scotland is a sparsely populated (and very beautiful) country, but it does tend to over-egg what is a city. I mean come on, Stirling is not a city, that's just a joke! In England it would be an insignificant town!

I'm not from Dundee originally but I will say that Dundee has more of a large town feel rather than a city feel. A lot of my friends from university in Dundee felt the same. It should probably be classified as a town.

[shuggee]

It's a good job Wells (UK's smallest) or others like St David's or Truro aren't in the running if there's so much discussion about city-status - interestingly Inverness was only made a city (along with Wolverhampton, and Brighton & Hove) in the Queen's Jubilee announcement in 2002.

Definition here:

http://www.ukcities.co.uk/definitions/

[Mondy]

Just face it, Scotland is a sparsely populated (and very beautiful) country, but it does tend to over-egg what is a city. I mean come on, Stirling is not a city, that's just a joke! In England it would be an insignificant town!

Funny that. I thought some Londoners believed Scotland (as a whole) was a suburb of London. Sparcely populated the further north you go, yes, but the central belt has a fair few million folks. To this day, I do not understand why Scotland is lumped into one meteorological area when a good few hundred miles seperates north to south Scotland, thus giving completely different weather. But, that's for another thread on another day.

Ps, you missed out City of Dunfermline on your "hit list"

[Yeti]

Funny that. I thought some Londoners believed Scotland (as a whole) was a suburb of London. Sparcely populated the further north you go, yes, but the central belt has a fair few million folks. To this day, I do not understand why Scotland is lumped into one meteorological area when a good few hundred miles seperates north to south Scotland, thus giving completely different weather. But, that's for another thread on another day.

Ps, you missed out City of Dunfermline on your "hit list"

True, I come from one of the most sparsely populated areas of England myself, but I do think that affects judgment of what is a town and what is a city.

Anyway, back on topic, I think the coldest city for which we have data is Leeds in England and Edinburgh in Scotland, although Edinburgh is open to debate depending on what is a city or not. Remember that many Scottish "cities" are by the sea and so minima in particular are particularly mild in comparison to places like Edinburgh.

[shuggee]

Are Edinburgh's measurements at the ariport though Yeti? That's well inland - about 4/5 miles west of the centre.

Also - I don't think Edinburgh's city status is in doubt (population 450k) - it's a capital city afterall!

I also think the town/city thing is proportionate to the surrounding area of a conurbation. Invernesss is massive compared to the hundreds of square kilometres around it. Whereas, say Huddersfield is small in comparison to the Leeds/West Yorks/Sheffield conurbations.

[mountain shadow]

I'm not from Dundee originally but I will say that Dundee has more of a large town feel rather than a city feel. A lot of my friends from university in Dundee felt the same. It should probably be classified as a town.

[Sawel]

I'm not from Dundee originally but I will say that Dundee has more of a large town feel rather than a city feel. A lot of my friends from university in Dundee felt the same. It should probably be classified as a town.

Find me another town which has two Univercity's, two senior football teams, a port, a mainline railway station and an airport. Town my ar*e.

I was referring to the actual size rather than what it does and doesn't have. And anyway, it only has one Burger King for goodness sake

Edited December 28, 2008 by Sawel

[Richard Taylor]

The football teams are questionable... But Dundee IS a city!

[Mondy]

City of Discovery and all that!

[Yeti]

Are Edinburgh's measurements at the ariport though Yeti? That's well inland - about 4/5 miles west of the centre.

Also - I don't think Edinburgh's city status is in doubt (population 450k) - it's a capital city afterall!

I also think the town/city thing is proportionate to the surrounding area of a conurbation. Invernesss is massive compared to the hundreds of square kilometres around it. Whereas, say Huddersfield is small in comparison to the Leeds/West Yorks/Sheffield conurbations.

Of course Edinburgh is a city! And not only that, it's one of the best I've ever been to , I would never doubt its status as not just a city but truly one of the UK's finest.

[Sawel]

My idea of a proper city (in the UK) is London, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast etc...

Edited December 28, 2008 by Sawel

[Tucco]

Durham is probably just colder than Leeds on a yearly average biggest difference in summer of course. Leeds often appear to very well regarding temps during the summer, with the higher temperature rarely making much further North let alone in to Scotland.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/ne/maps/tmean_17.gif

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[TomS]

Perhaps this is a rather pointless excercise, as much depends on elevation and what is 'officially' a city. Leeds/Bradford airport is quite a bit higher than Leeds city centre.

Without trawling through all the statistics, I would guess that Durham in England and Aberdeen in Scotland are the coldest, but there again are we talking of winter or annual, and 'cities' or 'cathedral cities'?

[Summer of 95]

Is this a "coldest city overall" or "coldest in winter" thread? Leeds (and Sheffield and York) is surely warmer than Newcastle and Durham in summer; often it seems that the SE-England warmth extends north into S and W Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, but doesn't reach the W Midlands or NW England.

In winter only, many of the inland cities further south can probably give Leeds a run for its money; Birmingham, Nottingham, Derby, Stoke can all get down pretty low as can the E Anglian cities (though these are much warmer in the summer).

As for Wales, all its cities are near the coast so are not really representative of the country as a whole: I'd say Bangor definitely has the coldest summers; the major S Wales cities are so well sheltered from N'lies and NW'lies (and to a large extent NE'lies) that they can often be sunny and warm when most of the rest of the UK is plagued by cool, cloudy drizzly muck. In winter, bearing in mind the propensity of the N Wales coast to record 15C+, I'd actually not be surprised if Cardiff and Newport were colder than Bangor.

[Nick H]

many Scottish "cities" are by the sea and so minima in particular are particularly mild in comparison to places like Edinburgh.

Edinburgh was pretty near the sea last time I looked!

Derby, Stoke can all get down pretty low

2 good calls there - you often see Buxton and Leek Thorncliffe in the coldest-by-day tables in winter. Hereford can get pretty cold too (is that a city? It certainly has a cathedral).

Edited December 28, 2008 by Nick H