The Uk's Coldest City

[Cookie]

according to teletext Inverness was -7oC at 9am

[Terminal Moraine]

I've looked out some data in an effort to resolve this little matter. I couldn't find any data for Inverness itself, or for Leeds, so the stations below are from a representative area nearby which, in view of the fact that it's unlikely any one station,regardless of its location, could fully represent the climate of a whole city, regardless of its size, is about as good as we're going to get.

As the mean annual temperature is the most realistic measure of how cold, or warm, a place is overall I've used that as the definitive measure but have also included the mean annual max' and mean annual min' out of interest.

By mean annual temperature I am referring to the sum of the mean monthly max' and min' divided by two.

All the data refers to the period 1941-70 and is taken from standard Met' Office sites.

STATION....Mts a.s.l........Mean Annual Temp........Mean Max'/ Mean Min'.

NAIRN....................6........................8.3................11.7/4.9

FORRES.................50.......................8.3................11.9/4.6

KINLOSS.................5......................8.3.................11.7/4.9

DUNDEE................45.......................8.5................12.0/5.0

PERTH...................23.......................8.4...............12.3/4.5

EDINBURGH (Turnhouse)...35.............8.5...............12.0/4.9

EDINBURGH (Botanic Gdns)..26...........8.7...............12.3/5.1

EDINBURGH (Blackford Hill)...134.........8.6.............11.6/5.6

ABERDEEN (Dyce )...............58............7.7............11.1/4.4

ABERDEEN ( Mannofield )......52...........7.9..............11.1/4.7

BRADFORD......................134..............8.8.............12.0/5.6

HUDDERSFIELD (Oakes )..232...............8.5.............11.9/5.2

HUDDERSFIELD (Ravensknowle )..99.....9.1..............12.7/5.5

SHEFFIELD......................131...............9.5..............12.7/6.3

It would appear from the above that the higher parts of Leeds, as indicated by the data from the higher parts of Huddersfield and from Bradford, are not quite as cold as the Inverness area and that Inverness is not as cold as Aberdeen. Perth is almost as cold as Inverness, in fact colder at night, but loses out with a higher mean max'.

Apoligies for the rather jumbled nature of the table, it was a hell of a job getting it all to fit on the lines and retain some degree of separation of the figures.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Terminal Moraine

[NorthernRab]

according to teletext Inverness was -7oC at 9am

Still -7'C at the moment, might not get above -5'C today. Looking forward to tonight, despite the fact that I'm going to a ceilidh and as a smoker, I'll have to go outside - hopefully some very low temperatures tonight. I really want to see a temperature beating last year's low of -13'C.

Aberdeen seems to be the coldest then. It should be noted however that Nairn is somewhat warmer than Inverness as it is more coastal (for want of a better expression). I'm still disappointed at Inverness's's's's's's lack of a proper weather station, an issue that needs to be addressed, I feel.

Edited December 29, 2008 by NorthernRab

[i luv snow]

How did it feel like a town?

If it 'felt' like a town to somebody then you really cant dispute that. Ipswich might 'feel' like a city to someone from a nearby village, of which they are many, just because there are very few other large towns/cities elsewhere in Suffolk. Cambridge 'feels' like a town to me, but it is a city. Whether a place is a hamlet, village, city or town is irrelevant when discussing the 'feel' of a place, which is personal and particular to the very person experiencing the place.

So why be defensive? You are arguing with what someone is 'feeling' and unless you are inside their head and can feel what they can feel, then this surely is faulty logic?

Edited December 29, 2008 by i luv snow

[NorthernRab]

If it 'felt' like a town to somebody then you really cant dispute that. Ipswich might 'feel' like a city to someone from a nearby village, of which they are many, just because there are very few other large towns/cities elsewhere in Suffolk. Cambridge 'feels' like a town to me, but it is a city. Whether a place is a hamlet, village, city or town is irrelevant when discussing the 'feel' of a place, which is personal and particular to the very person experiencing the place.

So why be defensive? You are arguing with what someone is 'feeling' and unless you are inside their head and can feel what they can feel, then this surely is faulty logic?

I'm merely arguing that it doesn't matter what he 'felt' it was like. Whether a city is a city is a question of fact, not feeling. Of course Yeti can 'feel' like it was a town, but then he could also 'feel' like the world is a cube, it doesn't make it right. I'm simply 'defending' fact.

[i luv snow]

I'm merely arguing that it doesn't matter what he 'felt' it was like. Whether a city is a city is a question of fact, not feeling. Of course Yeti can 'feel' like it was a town, but then he could also 'feel' like the world is a cube, it doesn't make it right. I'm simply 'defending' fact.

Fully agree with what you have said mate. I was just stating, as you have correctly identified above, that people are allowed to 'feel' whatever they like.

....Nice use of the old apostrophe's there, thought it was just me..!

[NorthernRab]

...I did go a little over the top with them

[Tucco]

I've looked out some data in an effort to resolve this little matter. I couldn't find any data for Inverness itself, or for Leeds, so the stations below are from a representative area nearby which, in view of the fact that it's unlikely any one station,regardless of its location, could fully represent the climate of a whole city, regardless of its size, is about as good as we're going to get.

As the mean annual temperature is the most realistic measure of how cold, or warm, a place is overall I've used that as the definitive measure but have also included the mean annual max' and mean annual min' out of interest.

By mean annual temperature I am referring to the sum of the mean monthly max' and min' divided by two.

All the data refers to the period 1941-70 and is taken from standard Met' Office sites.

STATION....Mts a.s.l........Mean Annual Temp........Mean Max'/ Mean Min'.

NAIRN....................6........................8.3................11.7/4.9

FORRES.................50.......................8.3................11.9/4.6

KINLOSS.................5......................8.3.................11.7/4.9

DUNDEE................45.......................8.5................12.0/5.0

PERTH...................23.......................8.4...............12.3/4.5

EDINBURGH (Turnhouse)...35.............8.5...............12.0/4.9

EDINBURGH (Botanic Gdns)..26...........8.7...............12.3/5.1

EDINBURGH (Blackford Hill)...134.........8.6.............11.6/5.6

ABERDEEN (Dyce )...............58............7.7............11.1/4.4

ABERDEEN ( Mannofield )......52...........7.9..............11.1/4.7

BRADFORD......................134..............8.8.............12.0/5.6

HUDDERSFIELD (Oakes )..232...............8.5.............11.9/5.2

HUDDERSFIELD (Ravensknowle )..99.....9.1..............12.7/5.5

SHEFFIELD......................131...............9.5..............12.7/6.3

It would appear from the above that the higher parts of Leeds, as indicated by the data from the higher parts of Huddersfield and from Bradford, are not quite as cold as the Inverness area and that Inverness is not as cold as Aberdeen. Perth is almost as cold as Inverness, in fact colder at night, but loses out with a higher mean max'.

Apoligies for the rather jumbled nature of the table, it was a hell of a job getting it all to fit on the lines and retain some degree of separation of the figures.

Thanks TM, Durham would still be coldest city in England then due its lower min and similar max to Bradford then? Hope your post will lay things to rest. Until the next thread of snowiest town,village school, post office remerges again.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[Osbourne One-Nil]

....Nice use of the old apostrophe's there, thought it was just me..!

I think you meant "apostrophes"...plural you see.

My mean annual temperature is 8.7C, so Great Asby wouldn't have won anyway, even if it were a city, which it feels like to someone from Little Asby.

[Tucco]

I think you meant "apostrophes"...plural you see.

My mean annual temperature is 8.7C, so Great Asby wouldn't have won anyway, even if it were a city, which it feels like to someone from Little Asby.

Little Asby is colder though . Over 1971-00 period I would imagine you average would be in considerably lower.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Thank you Tucco, us Barnard Castle/Appleby Metropolitan Area folk must stick together.

[Tucco]

Thank you Tucco, us Barnard Castle/Appleby Metropolitan Area folk must stick together.

Barnard Castle is like Harrogate to me now. Live near Middleton in Teesdale, that has a working mens club and a Co-Op whose orgins predate that of Rochdale let it be known.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

Edited December 29, 2008 by Tucco

[Osbourne One-Nil]

...and a Co-Op whose orgins predate that of Rochdale let it be known.

That makes me question everything I was taught at school.

[Yeti]

Still -7'C at the moment, might not get above -5'C today. Looking forward to tonight, despite the fact that I'm going to a ceilidh and as a smoker, I'll have to go outside - hopefully some very low temperatures tonight. I really want to see a temperature beating last year's low of -13'C.

Aberdeen seems to be the coldest then. It should be noted however that Nairn is somewhat warmer than Inverness as it is more coastal (for want of a better expression). I'm still disappointed at Inverness's's's's's's lack of a proper weather station, an issue that needs to be addressed, I feel.

Yes, Aberdeen is the coldest city in the UK like I have said all along

At least, for which we have reliable data. I think the idea of some deep cold pool moving into Inverness from some bitter Glen is something of a myth though tbh. Sounds a bit Thames Streamer-like.

[Yeti]

If it 'felt' like a town to somebody then you really cant dispute that. Ipswich might 'feel' like a city to someone from a nearby village, of which they are many, just because there are very few other large towns/cities elsewhere in Suffolk. Cambridge 'feels' like a town to me, but it is a city. Whether a place is a hamlet, village, city or town is irrelevant when discussing the 'feel' of a place, which is personal and particular to the very person experiencing the place.

So why be defensive? You are arguing with what someone is 'feeling' and unless you are inside their head and can feel what they can feel, then this surely is faulty logic?

Thank you.

I'm merely arguing that it doesn't matter what he 'felt' it was like. Whether a city is a city is a question of fact, not feeling. Of course Yeti can 'feel' like it was a town, but then he could also 'feel' like the world is a cube, it doesn't make it right. I'm simply 'defending' fact.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying! It doesn't "feel" like the world is a cube to me - so for me it isn't. Surely our experiences are what makes truth for an individual? If Inverness feels like a city to you then it can be a city. For me it's a town. Some facts would be stupid to dispute, because after all reason plays a part in interpreting our experiences and the evidence showing that the world is a cube is inherent, within the Earth's structure - but whether a place is a city or not is not inherent to the nature of the place and instead is a human construct that we have placed, based on the "feelings" of a few people that actually made the definition. Big difference then.

Honestly, how we got from the UK's coldest city to existentialism I've no idea

[Yeti]

I propose a new map of Britain.

[Methuselah]

No SF, you...have no idea about the kind of logic that I like to use here.

Thankfully Yeti mate, neither do I.

[Stratos Ferric]

Barnard Castle is like Harrogate to me now. Live near Middleton in Teesdale, that has a working mens club and a Co-Op whose orgins predate that of Rochdale let it be known.

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

What! 'Your' working men's club predates Rochdale. Isn't Rochdale in the Doomsday Book? There was me thinking the cradle of the Labour Party was in Farringdon Street when all along it was up in the northern Pennines.

Barnard Castle isn't like Harrogate. Harrogate has Betty's and a Yeti and is having to fight off urban sprawl from Manchester and Glasgow. Barnard Castle has a castle. Neither has a Woolworths nor a Booth's so far as I'm aware.

I propose a new map of Britain.

If you add Hertford it starts to look very like the latest SATSIGS' hotspots map.

[Yeti]

What! 'Your' working men's club predates Rochdale. Isn't Rochdale in the Doomsday Book? There was me thinking the cradle of the Labour Party was in Farringdon Street when all along it was up in the northern Pennines.

Barnard Castle isn't like Harrogate. Harrogate has Betty's and a Yeti and is having to fight off urban sprawl from Manchester and Glasgow. Barnard Castle has a castle. Neither has a Woolworths nor a Booth's so far as I'm aware.

If you add Hertford it starts to look very like the latest SATSIGS' hotspots map.

Indeed, and Hull is really beginning to engulf us now. Lord knows where we'll end up.

Why Hertford btw?

[Stratos Ferric]

...I was just stating, as you have correctly identified above, that people are allowed to 'feel' whatever they like.

Not sure that's as true as it used to be!

Indeed, and Hull is really beginning to engulf us now. Lord knows where we'll end up.

Why Hertford btw?

Go see SATSIGS: current ramp capital of Hertfordshire.

[Yeti]

Not sure that's as true as it used to be!

Go see SATSIGS: current ramp capital of Hertfordshire.

So I see.

[skifreak]

I'm going to wade in here in defence of Inverness as a City. Prior to the granting of the status as a 'Millennium City' by the Queen post 2000, Inverness was never a Cathedral City, yes it has a Cathedral but it did not meet the criteria. Historically more significant was the designation as a Royal Burgh.

Population is fairly low down the list of criteria that would be used in Geography to define a city in geographical terms and even prior to official granting of City Status, Inverness ticked many of those boxes, particularly when you look at the spatial extent of Inverness' 'sphere of influence'. It certainly isn't big by population terms when compared to larger English towns, but more importantly it is a major regional service centre servicing a vast hinterland that includes the whole of the Highlands, many of the Islands, Moray and a sizeable chunk of Aberdeenshire (esp Media in terms of Moray Firth Radio).

It's administrative influence stretches almost to Glasgow on the West Coast in terms of the Highland Health Board which swallowed the rural parts of the Argyll and Clyde board in a re-organisation. The Highland Council (of which Inveness is one of the district divisions) serves an area bigger than several EU countries and has a population of around 225,000. Moray has a population of approx 100,000 and the Western and Orkney Islands combined would be another 45,000.

You could through in another 20,000 for Shetland which though has it's main ferry link through Aberdeen, also links to Scrabster via Orkney and falls within the area of Northern Constabulary and the Highlands & Islands Fire Brigade. All in we're nudging close to 400,000 and over that if we include sections of the Moray coast in Aberdeenshire.

Another criteria that should be considered is the role Inverness plays as a major transport hub for the region it serves and as a major point of access to much of it's hinterland, with the major road, rail and bus links radiating out from the city. The 4 most important roads in the North of Scotland either terminating in or passing through Inverness (A9 (from South), A96, A82 and the A9 (from the North)).

Media is another factor in considering the sphere of influence of a regional centre and the coverage of Moray Firth Radio is huge, the official transmission area stretches from between Fraserborough and Peterhead on the North East Coast, all the way round the Moray Coast to Inverness, then up the Northern coast of the Firth and along the far North Coast to Bettyhill - if you were to drive the major coast roads all the way round through this area it would take something in the region of 7hours and you'd have travelled 300 miles or so. MFR also covers most of Orkney on 102.5 and in other parts on 97.4 and 96.6 FM (from the top of CairnGorm!).

As a transport hub, administrative centre to a population of over half a million when you include the health board, administrative HQ of the largest local authority in the EU (by area), main service and shopping centre for a population of several hundred thousand, broadcast media extending to within 40miles of Aberdeen, a travel to work area that extends out around the Inner Moray Firth in both directions, down the Great Glen and down the A9 to Dalwhinnie, with commuter trains running in from Kingussie to the South and Lairg in the North.

It looks like it fulfils the role of a City to me. It should also be noted that the census population for Inverness is somewhat misleading, it only includes distinct portions of the city and misses out significant areas of population that are considered by the council as the "Inverness Built Up Area".

[Stratos Ferric]

...it only includes distinct portions of the city and misses out significant areas of population that are considered by the council as the "Inverness Built Up Area".

Strewth, not yet another claim on Knaresborogateon...

Not sure Inveness can claim to be a transport hub. Surely there's only about half a dozen 4x4s, a few tractors, and a load of donkeys up there?

I think you might also be understating the reach of Radio Nobody's Listening: surely it stretches right across the water to Norway?

[Yeti]

Strewth, not yet another claim on Knaresborogateon...

Not sure Inveness can claim to be a transport hub. Surely there's only about half a dozen 4x4s, a few tractors, and a load of donkeys up there?

I think you might also be understating the reach of Radio Nobody's Listening: surely it stretches right across the water to Norway?

It does get listeners, they are just mainly sheep and seals.

Transport-wise I would say Inverness was more of a cul-de-sac than a "hub". It has no motorways and it's hardly a major centre in Britain's rail network.

[LadyPakal]

I think a lot of this dissing of Inverness is jealousy because of the really hard frosts it is getting at the moment. Still -3 there I see.