The Strange Parts Of The Cold Spell

[The PIT]

First of all the lack of frost despite some very low temps.

Not really all that strange though as the air temp has to be close to the dew point for frost to form. The same applies to temperature/ dew point at grass level which will of course be different from the conditions several feet above the ground.

During the cold spell the dew point has been well below the air temp and the same has been true of the grass min which at times has trailed the air temp. End result no frost.

The next oddity has been the ponds. I've got two ponds one I will discount as the pump disturbs the water too much for ice to easily form. The 2nd pond the pond is large enough for this not to be the case. MY neighbour also has a large pond and no pump.

Only recently has my neighbours pond frozen which was yesterday and this was despite temps of -3.9C on new years eve. My 2nd pond did freeze slightly briefly but is again ice free. I hear that John Holmes pond also has also refused to freeze so this is something I can't explain easily.

[Nick L]

I remember seeing a post from JH earlier, and even he said he was a bit mystified as to why the ponds are struggling to freeze.

[snowingtequila]

Our pond has been frozen since CHristmas. However, the only noticeable frost on the grass etc has been on the days when freezing fog has persisted, although I have had to de-ice my car every morning now for some time. The ground although not showing a white frost is frozen solid and cannot be dug at the moment.

Edited January 4, 2009 by snowingtequila

[Stu_London]

Our pond has been frozen since CHristmas. However, the only noticeable frost on the grass etc has been on the days when freezing fog has persisted, although I have had to de-ice my car every morning now for some time. The ground although not showing a hite frost is frozed solid and cannot be dug at the moment.

Loads of frost in Bromley, Kent, although the coldest morning (as per car thermometer), -6, didn't have to scrape the car at all.

[Snowyowl9]

Hasn`t been alot of frost here either until the last 4 day,not much last night but thats to do with cloudcover temps still got below freezing,thick ice like I havn`t seen since the mid-90`s that`ll be after this coming week, same goes for the ground being rock hard which it is now.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Snowyowl9

[cycloneuk]

We have had thick frost that has lasted all day on a few occasions along the coast, last night was the only night we have had no frost due to cloud cover in well over a week.

Edited January 4, 2009 by cycloneuk

[Nick F]

We've had a proper white frost on grass, cars, roofs everytime skies have cleared during this cold spell ... including this morning.

I do remember the Feb '86 severe cold spell having little evidence of frost, even though temps remained well below freezing constantly for days, probably because the air was very dry and dew points so low that the air temp didn't fall to the dew point temp.

[CLH the red dragon]

2 of the reservoirs in the Brecon Beacons are frozen over.

I'm guessing the lack of frost is due to the lack of moisture and the gentle winds?

[Callie]

We had a heavy frost and temperatures dropped to -7.5 at about 3am.

Callie

[SNOWPLOUGH]

there has only been 4 frosts here since christmas,so this has not been a good cold spell in dublin ,the minimum temp was only -1.7c on the 27th of december.

It got colder than that on 6 occasions at the start of december,with the lowest temp at -3.7c B)

I cannot explain why the ponds did not freeze over

SP

[SP1986]

It may be to do with evaporation processes in the dry spell we've had leading to salt forming on the surface of the ponds, not allowing ice to form - that's the only plausible theory I can suggest.

[Jayces]

I blame global warming.

You see the planet is warmer now so it offsets against the air temperature so the you need much colder air then in the past to allow the surface of the water.......i'll get my coat, hat, gloves, scarf......

Haven't got any water near me that I can check but remember playing on frozen lakes in the 80's. I don't suppose it has been cold enough for that sort of ice to form though has it?

[Bottesford]

Strange parts... ermm well I haven't recorded much in the way of low temps if that counts as strange! Even in recent 'mild' winters I've got readings of -4c and below inc during April! But then I have moved from the suburbs to much nearer the city centre which perhaps makes a difference. But I'm not actually 'in' the city centre nor am I in a big block of flats surrounded by buildings (it's quite leafy around here and I'm in a detacted house). So quite why it's not so cold I don't know.

Cloud cover definitely keeping it warmer here of late - not seen much sun, stars & sky lately!

[mackerel sky]

Only had frost here when the skies were clear, unsuprisingly. Even when its clouded up overnight with temperatures rising to say, -1C, the frost has gone pretty sharpish. In the night even. However, now all standing water is frozen and the glooply semi-frozen muddy paths where I walk the dogs finally gone hard. But its not a picture postcard scene, because the frost has been intermittant. The real cold spell, in terms of freezing stuff properly didn't set in here until Friday night.

We have had no freezing fog whatsoever. What remains a slight curiousity is that, the sun can be beaming down and it remains well below freezing into midday, yet if cloud moves in after a frost, say 5-6am, the frost disappears, and it gets milder despite the fact its sunny elsewhere? I thought the cloud might prevent too much of a warm up on a chilly start after frosting but vice versa seems to be the case of late.

[Anti-Mild]

There's been about 7 frosts here since Christmas Day and still no white at all. Although it's been cold, which is obviously good, it's been quite boring here - no colder than -3.7c, no milder than 3.8c, almost wall to wall cloud and no wind or fog.

Still, it's miles better than the January's we have become used to.

[mackerel sky]

There's been about 7 frosts here since Christmas Day and still no white at all. Although it's been cold, which is obviously good, it's been quite boring here - no colder than -3.7c, no milder than 3.8c, almost wall to wall cloud and no wind or fog.

Still, it's miles better than the January's we have become used to.

My parents live in Yarm, and sister in Coulby Newham and other than the snow in early December, I don't think they've been mentioned to me on the phone anything about the weather of late. When they would normally tell me about how cold it has been, being of near pensionable age, and winter fuel payments.

[Yeti]

Well I was in the Lakes yesterday and absolutely everything was rigid - even in the valley (60m) Rydal Water was frozen and at 290m, Easedale Tarn had people walking and sliding all over it! If the cold temps continue we may see the first ice skaters! Even more amazing though were the rivers. They were almost entirely frozen, and the streams running into the Tarn were completely frozen. Not only that, there were frozen waterfalls! I haven't seen this before in the UK

[mackerel sky]

Well I was in the Lakes yesterday and absolutely everything was rigid - even in the valley (60m) Rydal Water was frozen and at 290m, Easedale Tarn had people walking and sliding all over it! If the cold temps continue we may see the first ice skaters! Even more amazing though were the rivers. They were almost entirely frozen, and the streams running into the Tarn were completely frozen. Not only that, there were frozen waterfalls! I haven't seen this before in the UK

Sounds great. Did you take any piccies?

When I was up in North Wales last, mid-December there was a fair bit of snow above 600-700m, so I guess that must still be there. Any snow still on Helvelyn and the like?

[Polar Continental]

There is a good deal of misconception of what constitutes a frost. A frost is measured in degrees of frost, not the white visible stuff (hoar frost)

How grades of severity of frost are distinguished: slight (-0.1 to -3.5°C), moderate (-3.6 to -6.4°C), severe (-6.5 to -11.5°C), and very severe or hard (below -11.5°C).

Hoar frost usually occurs on cold still nights under clear skies in winter, (radiation cooling) hoar frost forms on surfaces colder than the air immediately above, where the dew point reached, much in the same way as condensation forms on the colder windows in bathrooms and kitchens.

The temperature on the ground under clear skies can be considerably lower, some times as much as 5c or 6c.

Here this morning the temperature was –3.9c so I recorded a moderate frost, but no visible hoar frost, the sky was heavily overcast so there was little radiation cooling. Frost under these conditions is usually referred to as a black frost.

One good reason why many people’s ponds have remained ice free is because ground temperatures have not been that low compared to what they would have been under clear skies. For instance I have recorded several times during this cloudy cold spell, minimum air temperature of –2c or –3c, the ground temperatures have been much the same. Under clear skies the ground temperature would have been much lower, possibly as low as –8c, so ice would form much more readily on ponds which are normally at ground level and open to the stars.

Paul

[Jax]

Only had frost here when the skies were clear, unsuprisingly. Even when its clouded up overnight with temperatures rising to say, -1C, the frost has gone pretty sharpish. In the night even. However, now all standing water is frozen and the glooply semi-frozen muddy paths where I walk the dogs finally gone hard. But its not a picture postcard scene, because the frost has been intermittant. The real cold spell, in terms of freezing stuff properly didn't set in here until Friday night.

We have had no freezing fog whatsoever. What remains a slight curiousity is that, the sun can be beaming down and it remains well below freezing into midday, yet if cloud moves in after a frost, say 5-6am, the frost disappears, and it gets milder despite the fact its sunny elsewhere? I thought the cloud might prevent too much of a warm up on a chilly start after frosting but vice versa seems to be the case of late.

I was just saying that to my partner about this an hour ago, We are also in Rushden and we have noticed that the

Frosts, when we have had them, are gone, but the bucket of water in the garden has remained frozen for days now, and having

taken a *brief* trip into the town center, I was bloody frozen out there, in the shed it has just reached 0.0oC and is now starting

to fall again.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Jax

[J10]

Not many "white" ground frosts here, but a lot of frozen ground.

Also plenty of ice on ponds and lakes, as per these photos yesterday.

http://www.netweather.tv/forum/index.php?s...t&p=1410753

There has also been a large local variation in cloud amounts and this has been making a big difference.

[mackerel sky]

I was just saying that to my partner about this an hour ago, We are also in Rushden and we have noticed that the

Frosts, when we have had them, are gone, but the bucket of water in the garden has remained frozen for days now, and having

taken a *brief* trip into the town center, I was bloody frozen out there, in the shed it has just reached 0.0oC and is now starting

to fall again.

I walk the whippets out past the A6 bypass and on the footpaths out towards Avenue Road and Yeldon. The condition of the ground is a good measure in itself of how severe a frost we have had. And it was still messy mid-afternoon on Friday, but frozen today. But all standing water, not that there is much of it, because its been so dry is frozen now. Woolies shuts tomorrow, walked past it yesterday on the high street. Looked grim. I'm up the southern end of town, and it hasn't gotten above -0.7C here today on my shed-based maplin-bought weather feed. Also have another outdoor temperature sensor, and that has become unreliable of late, but even that didn't get about -0.2C.

Typical that it might snow when everyone is returning to work in the morning. Thanks to bloody Peter Jones and "gotomypc" I have no excuse to work irrespective.

[Yeti]

Sounds great. Did you take any piccies?

When I was up in North Wales last, mid-December there was a fair bit of snow above 600-700m, so I guess that must still be there. Any snow still on Helvelyn and the like?

I took some pics and will post them soon. While I was driving I didn't get a good look at the mountains, but as far as I could see there were little pockets of snow on Whernside (736m), I think a bit on Ingleborough (723) as well as Sca Fell I think it was Great Gable I could see but I'm not sure. I couldn't see Helvellyn from where I was. In other words, next to nothing in terms of mountain snow in England at the moment which is a shame because some of the Dales had nearly a metre of snow after the accumulated events at the beginning of December. I guess it's just been cold and dry. Normally by this time, a reasonable amount of snow has built up to last till the spring in parts (though not every winter). So everything rigid but not really any snow (however I looked today and the Cairngorms are pasted even at 900m). Any snow patches in England seem to be above 700m, and I doubt there is anything S of the Dales.

Pics to follow! Imagine what the Tarns above 700/800/900m are like :o

Edited January 4, 2009 by Yeti

[Jax]

I walk the whippets out past the A6 bypass and on the footpaths out towards Avenue Road and Yeldon. The condition of the ground is a good measure in itself of how severe a frost we have had. And it was still messy mid-afternoon on Friday, but frozen today. But all standing water, not that there is much of it, because its been so dry is frozen now. Woolies shuts tomorrow, walked past it yesterday on the high street. Looked grim. I'm up the southern end of town, and it hasn't gotten above -0.7C here today on my shed-based maplin-bought weather feed. Also have another outdoor temperature sensor, and that has become unreliable of late, but even that didn't get about -0.2C.

Typical that it might snow when everyone is returning to work in the morning. Thanks to bloody Peter Jones and "gotomypc" I have no excuse to work irrespective.

Not been out in the "sticks" so to speak, I can guess it has been messy though, we are not far from the Harborough Surgery near

the A6 By-pass, we have probably passed in the street :o

Yes woolies is looking grim.

[mackerel sky]

I took some pics and will post them soon. While I was driving I didn't get a good look at the mountains, but as far as I could see there were little pockets of snow on Whernside (736m), I think a bit on Ingleborough (723) as well as Sca Fell I think it was Great Gable I could see but I'm not sure. I couldn't see Helvellyn from where I was. In other words, next to nothing in terms of mountain snow in England at the moment which is a shame because some of the Dales had nearly a metre of snow after the accumulated events at the beginning of December. I guess it's just been cold and dry. Normally by this time, a reasonable amount of snow has built up to last till the spring in parts (though not every winter). So everything rigid but not really any snow (however I looked today and the Cairngorms are pasted even at 900m). Any snow patches in England seem to be above 700m, and I doubt there is anything S of the Dales.

Pics to follow! Imagine what the Tarns above 700/800/900m are like :o

I've done the three peaks in winter, years ago, when I was an undergraduate in Lancaster. Never been so cold in my life. Then I very reluctantly on one walk up to Ingleborough went down that winch to the bottom of gaping gill (?). I had three years worth of difficult journeys across the Pennines from Lancaster to Teesside in the mid 1990s in winter! I did take my wife over the Buttertubs pass and pointed out Ingleborough and Pen-y-Ghent. I love that area.