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The Lohafex Experiment


Jane Louise

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Posted
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos
  • Weather Preferences: Thunderstorms :D
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos

Hi there,

I came across this from my science news feeds and I wondered what some of you may think of this? I do not think the expirementers should be allowed to go through with this espicially since the U.N. and other concerned enviromentalists have warned them against this!!

Here is the link:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01...tilizethis.html

A major Indian-German geoengineering expedition set sail this week for the Scotia Sea, flouting a U.N. ban on ocean iron fertilization experiments in hopes of garnering data about whether the process actually does take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and sequester it in the deep ocean, a technique that may help reverse global warming.

The LOHAFEX experiment will spread 20-tons of iron sulphate particles over a 115-square-mile section of open ocean north of Antarctica — that's about 1.7 times the size of Washington, D.C. The initiative has drawn fire from environmental groups who point out that 200 countries agreed to the moratorium until more evidence was available about its efficacy.

But that hasn't stopped the LOHAFEX team, composed of Alfred Wegener Institute and Indian National Institute of Oceanography scientists, who say they need to conduct experiments to get such data.

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

There seems to be a growing opinion that we can only 'engineer' our way out of the crisis as voluntary reductions in our current behaviours/expectations will not be enough to offset the worst impacts of climate change.

Gee Dubya mooted as much back in 02' and was giggled at......well ,it looks like the mighty Louby he fronts has had it's way and we have more than this comp. touting for business (buy carbon credits by seeding the ocean and allowing it to pull down more CO2) in promises of reflective sheeting in deserts, oceanic seeding, cloud seeding over the oceans and I'm sure many more.

Whenever I've tried to fix something by adding more complications I've got very cross and been thwarted in my efforts.....I've always ended up going back to the basic design and repairing it as I originally ought to.....but then that is me at the controls :D

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Posted
  • Location: A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Guildford, Surrey
  • Location: A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Guildford, Surrey

I think that the experiment is an insane idea.

If AGW theory is right then we have messed up the atmosphere - messing around further to try and rectify our mistake is only going to make matters worse, I think.

If AGW theory is wrong then we've not messed up the atmosphere and we shouldn't start messing around with anything else anyway!

Either way you look at it, it seems like a silly idea.

:)

CB

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

Seems like madness to me. Also seems they're determined to corner the market, should it turn out to be successful.

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Posted
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos
  • Weather Preferences: Thunderstorms :D
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos

Will this experiment actually alter our weather and climate and make it go wild? (Day after tommorow scenerio)

All these new experiments are getting worrying espicially when it involves messing with Mother nature :)

I thought the LHC (black hole thingy) lol was bad enough and the man made star that scientists want to recreate in a controlled Lab .

God help us I say!! :) lol

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

I suppose in theory, long term, large scale - it could impact our weather. I think it works on the premise of scrubbing/sequestering CO2 from the atmosphere; I guess if it removed enough and CO2 was responsible for the warming, then we'd cool down.

Hang on a second.... cooler temps...colder winters = more snow???? Bring it on, I'm all for it.

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Posted
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos
  • Weather Preferences: Thunderstorms :D
  • Location: Cheltenham,Glos

Thanks for explaining all. :)

The Latest update:

They have now suspended the experiment for 10 days.

The German science ministry has suspended a planned Indo–German ocean fertilization experiment in the Southern Ocean, and asked the German research institute behind it to commission an independent assessment of the study's environmental safety.

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090114/ful...ws.2009.26.html

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

If such a measure is to be effective at reducing greenhouse gas concentrations, and not have any significant unwanted side-effects, then I will be all for it. That would merely amount to reducing the extent of anthropogenic input into the climate system.

However, this is a very big "if". If it might not be effective, and/or there might be significant unwanted side-effects, then it's a very risky thing to be doing, and it doesn't take much uncertainty, in my view, to cause the risks to outweigh the potential rewards. Thus, unless we can be pretty certain of its effectiveness it should be more of a last resort.

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Interesting to see people acting on my ideas!

Well obviously I cannot take sole credit for it but have long suggested that farming the oceans would reduce atmospheric CO2 - forget Kyoto, Rio etc the Mauna Loa dataset shows that it is rising at an ever increasing rate and as a species we are seemingly both unable or unwilling to tackle this purely at point of production.

With a little imagination we could also create vast new food sources in otherwise more or less barren marine 'deserts'.

edit: Just a comment of justification - what is the worry with our meddling? We have meddled already - if it has had no impact as some believe eg. AGW myth, then reducing it won't make any difference.

If it has had an impact then it supports our efforts to reduce CO2.

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Posted
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent
  • Location: Hanley, Stoke-on-trent

I'm obviously being stupid here, but what is wrong with a small scale experiment? Doesn't seem to me that anyone is suggesting seeding the whole of the North sea, just a tiny part of the Southern ocean. Although I'm not sure what could be learned from such a small experiment.

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Posted
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex

Why chemically refined Ferrous sulphate? Probably manufactured from iron prepared by smelting mined or opencast iron ore in a furnace with coke made from mined or opencast coal, and loads of calcium carbonate in the form of quarried limestone to form an alkaline slag containing the silicate and heavy metal impurities, releasing quantities of carbon, sulphur and nitrogen oxides into the atmosphere.

Then the pure iron needed to be reduced by milling to particles small enough to react with sulphuric acid manufactured by...

I think you get my drift.

Why couldn't they just take a tankerload of pig slurry, abbatoir waste or some other unrefined pollutant and dump it in the ocean. I'm sure that the end result would be the same algal bloom, with all the same unbidden knock-on problems, without the burden of the pollution caused in refining the added pollutant in the first place. :rolleyes:

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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

Maybe we should just let the nitrate fertilisers leach out of the fields into the streams and rivers and on out to sea (as it does)....or is that just pollution messing up marine ecosystems?

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Posted
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
It seems a lot of people aren't too happy about this.I hope this experiment does not go ahead!!

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Climate_...lantic_999.html

It is an experiment in the same way that grafitti on the scary vertical face of a very visible building says:"hey look at me, I'm here, take notice!" (but you didn't see me do it, and I wouldn't admit to it even if you caught me)

As an experiment, it communicates or attempts to understand nothing - as such it is a pointless exercise - a publicity stunt. Dangerous people need locking up before they hurt themselves, not after they have hurt others.

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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

As a small-scale experiment - I cannot understand the fuss...Anyway, I thought we could go on adding polutants to the biosphere forever? Oh sorry! That reasoning only applies to CO2. :lol:

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Posted
  • Location: s yorks
  • Weather Preferences: c'mon thunder
  • Location: s yorks
Hey! Let's nuke the Pacific Rim! :lol:

You must admit though chris that the US pacific atoll nuclear tests in the 50`s & 60`s etc. were jolly good telly?

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Posted
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
You must admit though chris that the US pacific atoll nuclear tests in the 50`s & 60`s etc. were jolly good telly?

I agree, mezzacyclone, "Trinity and Beyond", and "Nukes in Space" are my favourite movies, after " Cabaret" :D :lol:

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Posted
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
As a small-scale experiment - I cannot understand the fuss...Anyway, I thought we could go on adding polutants to the biosphere forever? Oh sorry! That reasoning only applies to CO2. :D

Tush and pish, Pete, CO2 is MacDonalds for growing greenstuff.

On the other hand, "Polutants" - did you mean "Polenta"? An experiment in cuisine that failed beyond couscous, porridge or frumenty - ugh slush made from yellow grains. The one to leave out of your five-a-day indefinitely. :lol:

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Posted
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
  • Location: Worthing West Sussex
Eutrophication was my inspiration predating this Lohafex experiment.

As I have complained elsewhere, due to the cold weather, my compost bin-wormery has stopped working, and I have had to start putting compostible waste into the trash, since my compost bin is overflowing. Lohafex is welcome to my donations, as long as they will collect on a regular basis :rolleyes: .

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