Ufo Facts And A Solution To The Energy Crisis

[PersianPaladin]

I'm not saying this is correct or anything, I just find it very interesting: -

"This 10-page summary of witness testimony on UFO facts is taken from the book Disclosure, compiled by Steven M. Greer, MD. Page numbers from the book for each excerpt are given at the end of each statement. These testimonies were taken verbatim from video interviews with the witnesses, which include astronauts, generals, admirals, other top government and military officials.."

http://www.wanttoknow.info/ufocover-up10pg

[PersianPaladin]

Interesting debate on ZPE-derived "free energy" here: -

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.ph...4619&page=5

[eyeofthestorm]

Hi PP, i'm quite familiar with the Disclosure Project, i find the whole UFO subject fascinating; and is perhaps the only conspiracy theory which contains large amounts of evidence confirming it's existence.

The disclosure project now has nearly 500 government witnesses, they held a press conference back in 2001, a couple of months before the 9/11 disaster. This gained notable attention in the lead up to 9/11 The link is here

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

He also did a number of briefings for the Clinton administration, during an event called the Rockefeller initiative where Laurence Rockefeller and bill Clinton were trying to get to the bottom of the UFO mystery. Clinton's interest is now being confirmed by several FOIA requests by UFO researcher Grant Cameron who runs http://www.presidentialufo.com/

The link the currently released documents is here

http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/main.html

Obama will probably iniate Disclosure, his choice of his team clearly shows this

i will check back later with more information;

i will say this now the UFO cover up is nearly it's end

Edited January 23, 2009 by eyeofthestorm

[eyeofthestorm]

What we have been seeing over the past year or two in relation to the UFO issue, is a clear signal that Full disclosure on the UFO subject is going to happen soon and a considerable possibilty of an Extraterrstrial explaination behind some of the sightings.

A lot of sightings these days,are probably United States projects based on reverse enginnered technology. They have had well over 6 decades to figure out the technology behind the craft that are visiting and have been flying their own since the 1960s.

The disclosure that we have all been waiting for, is hopfully just round the corner. Other nations are becoming tired of the United States policy of denial, and is embarassing for them as members of the United States own government and military are coming forward with sightings or involvement with this subject, and most of which are preparing to testify under oath before congress.

France in 2007 became the first nation to disclose a portion of it's UFO files, and showed that the french government were taking the subject very seriously. Link below

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7032202132.html

Here's the link again which i posted eariler which was dead; to the documents recently released by the Clinton libery confirming the President Clintons efforts to get disclosure http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/main.html

Hilary clinton also played a major part in getting infomation to the president as first lady,she also was very interested in the subject matter; a direct link to her invlovement in the disclosure efforts is here

http://www.presidentialufo.com/clinton.htm

http://www.hillaryclintonufo.net/

Whats even more interesting is Barack Obama's selction of his administration, Clinton is secratary of State, John podesta was obama transition chief who publically called for disclosure in 2002 and was a part of the Clinton White house as cheif of staff---- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Sz-MgoFos and a key player in Clintons efforts to get disclosure.

Leon Panetta will be the CIA director who was also a chief of staff under clinton and played a major role.

Along with many more including his DNI director who had a need to know access to the US navys files.

Expect disclosure to happen this year, because if the US doesnt disclose another country will.

Edited January 23, 2009 by eyeofthestorm

[Methuselah]

Always a fascinating subject, UFOs, PP...I agree that there is some kind of a conspiracy, but I don't believe it to be extraterrestrial in origin...

I have two reasons for saying that:

1) A down-to-earth military explanation seems to me more prosaic and more likely;

2) Why would an advanced culture with FTLT waste resources flying around in our atmosphere for no purpose apart from the odd abduction of a redneck?

Of course, I could be completely wrong in my thinking; in many ways I wish I was. Sometimes we might benefit from an extraterrestrial invasion - nothing-else has yet managed to unite humankind!

[PersianPaladin]

Always a fascinating subject, UFOs, PP...I agree that there is some kind of a conspiracy, but I don't believe it to be extraterrestrial in origin...

I have two reasons for saying that:

1) A down-to-earth military explanation seems to me more prosaic and more likely;

2) Why would an advanced culture with FTLT waste resources flying around in our atmosphere for no purpose apart from the odd abduction of a redneck?

Of course, I could be completely wrong in my thinking; in many ways I wish I was. Sometimes we might benefit from an extraterrestrial invasion - nothing-else has yet managed to unite humankind! :lol:

I also feel that it is more likely to be of terrestial origin in the form of close-guarded technological secrets by US military agencies.

Extraordinary claims by these Disclosure people; require extraordinary evidence. And thus far...it has yielded none.

[Nath]

I cannot understand how anyone can believe in UFOs, considering the vast distances involved from even our nearest neighbour stars.

And if there really were visitors who can live for 10000s of years on spacecraft travelling at the speed of light, they would surely make themselves known to us just like we would if we were to ever stumble upon intelligent life elsewhere.

To me ET visiting us is 1 in virtually infinity chance.

[Waveform]

I cannot understand how anyone can believe in UFOs, considering the vast distances involved from even our nearest neighbour stars.

I tend to agree here. The distances are just too great.

The closest star to us excluding the sun is Proxima Centaurus at 4.22 light years.

Another way to look at it. Take the Hercules Globular Cluster. There are well over 100,000 stars in the cluster. If by some fantastic chance there was one star that had a planet harboring some sort of life it is 25,000 light years away from here.

That is 25,000 years at the speed of light 'c' which is slightly over 186,000 mph / 1,079,252,848 kph.

Thing is, nothing having mass can travel at the speed of light. The energy required to push anything to the speed of light becomes infinite. Simply can't be done. Good old E=MC^2 throws a wrench into the works.

Time dilation could help, however it does not have an appreciable effect until close to light speed.

Even if there is other life out there it would be a monumental task to travel between even the nearest stars in this Galaxy.

Just to travel from one side of this Galaxy to the other would require 100,000 years at light speed.

The nearest Galaxy to us (Andromeda) would require 2,500,000 years at light speed.

There are other things such as dimensions and wormholes that have been talked about, but again there are tremendous problems here also.

Point being even if there were much more advanced societies somewhere out there, they still have to obey the same laws of the universe as us.

I some how have a problem with something that could beat the physics and actually get here and then crash..............I don't think so.

The other thing is to imagine a planet that took 500 years of its Gross planetary output to get enough energy to make even a very near interstellar trip.

Finally get to another planet, only to get out and stomp some poor farmers corn field into weird shapes, grab a few cows and mutilate them just for good measure, then as a going away gig terrorize some local inhabitants by inserting anal probes.

All I can say, must be some fun planet.

[Chris Knight]

The other thing is to imagine a planet that took 500 years of its Gross planetary output to get enough energy to make even a very near interstellar trip.

Finally get to another planet, only to get out and stomp some poor farmers corn field into weird shapes, grab a few cows and mutilate them just for good measure, then as a going away gig terrorize some local inhabitants by inserting anal probes.

All I can say, must be some fun planet.

Hey! I can remember (well, not exactly "remember") doing equally (relatively worse, actually) gross things (except for the cows and the anal stuff) on a Friday night as a student after a few pints of Old Peculiar*, and it took a lot more energy than that to get up the following afternoon. :unsure:

*We never drank Stella.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Chris Knight

[Waveform]

LOL, Yup, I know where you are coming from.

[Methuselah]

Finally get to another planet, only to get out and stomp some poor farmers corn field into weird shapes, grab a few cows and mutilate them just for good measure, then as a going away gig terrorize some local inhabitants by inserting anal probes.

All I can say, must be some fun planet.

Maybe they've invented Reality TV? I'm an Extraterrestrial Get Me Out Of Here!

[Gray-Wolf]

Maybe we're just a 'theme park' for folk in the future who wish to witness the 'before the catastrophe' earth and the 'contrarian menace' who allowed it to happen........

[Essan]

I cannot understand how anyone can believe in UFOs, considering the vast distances involved from even our nearest neighbour stars.

I cannot understand how anyone cannot believe in UFOs, considering the huge number of witnessess. Including myself.

Of course, I also see absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume even for a moment that UFOs are alien spacecraft .......

And that's the point: there is plenty of evidence for people have seen objects or phenomena moving in the skies which cannot be readily explained. But none whatsoever that these are aliens. The fact that any alleged visitations are always by humanoids that clearly evolved from fish on a planet with the same gravity and chemical composition orbiting a sun identical to ours and roughly the same distance further raises extreme doubt over their validity.

If aliens were 180ft tall, had 37 tentacles, made of a silicon compound, breathing cyanide, communicated via ultrawave frequencies and were unable to withstand the sun's radiation I'd be more open to believing in them.

As it stands, there is much, much, much, much more reason to suppose that any aliens are time travellers from Earth's distant future.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Essan

[Methuselah]

I cannot understand how anyone cannot believe in UFOs, considering the huge number of witnessess. Including myself.

Of course, I also see absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume even for a moment that UFOs are alien spacecraft .......

And that's the point: there is plenty of evidence for people have seen objects or phenomena moving in the skies which cannot be readily explained. But none whatsoever that these are aliens. The fact that any alleged visitations are always by humanoids that clearly evolved from fish on a planet with the same gravity and chemical composition orbiting a sun identical to ours and roughly the same distance further raises extreme doubt over their validity.

If aliens were 180ft tall, had 37 tentacles, made of a silicon compound, breathing cyanide, communicated via ultrawave frequencies and were unable to withstand the sun's radiation I'd be more open to believing in them.

As it stands, there is much, much, much, much more reason to suppose that any aliens are time travellers from Earth's distant future.

I almost misread that. 37 testicles?

[Waveform]

Good points Essan.

My personal thing is I can not believe in UFO,s as alien craft.

I can believe in them as military testing in such things as pulse engines, silent helicopters, advanced fighters, natural phenomenon in which there is a huge amount of things that can be mistake, last but not least just plain old lies and hoaxes.

When it comes to alien ‘visitors’ the physics and science just does not hold it up. Or at lest the known science.

The distances and energy are just so so great. I know there are wormhole theories black holes and such. This things are great in book and ideas, but in the actual world the reality falls apart.

A craft goes into a black hole and that’s it. The thing is gone for good. Nothing gets out of a black hole with perhaps the exception of Hawking radiation.

Wormholes if they can be created at all would be extremely unstable to anything larger than sub atomic particles.

These problems would be absolutely tremendous for us, and they would be equally tremendous for a civilization 5000 years ahead of us. They could manipulate and use energy much more efficient that us. But the large problems would still be there.

The same thing exists with time travel. It looks like at this point in time (excuse the pun) it is virtually impossible. About the best that can be done is time dilation.

I guess it’s not so much that a very advanced civilization could not harness enough energy to travel in time. It’s just that time itself will not permit it.

However, all this does not by any means exclude other life in the universe. I absolutely expect there is other life ‘out there’ and no doubt some of it quite intelligent.

As for UFO’s I have seen them twice. On both occasions after I spent a fair amount time on trying to get an explanation, I tracked down both reasons.

They were not aliens. One turned out to be a helicopter where it should not have been, the other a flight of military aerobatic planes at high altitude flying at night.

This was very convincing, in fact I suspect if I found some of the others that seen them that parictular night, explained what they were. I very much think they would not believe me.

The only thing to this date at even remotely point to extraterrestrials was the WOW signal.

Even that is extremely ambitious.

It occurred in 1977 at the Ohio State University. They were doing some SETI work.

They ‘picked up’ a signal that was outside the parameters of randomness. The signal did not last long.

They searched for it many nights after in the same sky position, however it never returned.

There is a possibility it could have been a atmospheric disturbance, perhaps a slight chance of a earthly interference, and yet a very slight chance still exists, it may have come from something light years away.

Perhaps some day in the future we will find out.

I have been an amateur astronomer for many years and have seen / heard a few strange things at the business end of a telescope or radio, but never an alien.

LOL, however be assured if I ever do I’ll be blabbing it all over the place.

37 testicles! Holy catfish! :lol: :lol:

[skidders]

Just because we do not know of any way to travel those kind of distances in a relatively short time does not mean it is not possible. Remember that a few hundred years ago we did not even know how to make and use electricity and some of the technology and science we know now would have seemed like magic to people back then. We would be naïve not to believe that there may still be branches of science that could be just as ‘magical’ to us right now!!!!

Still doesn't answer the question of why they could be bothered to travel here though!!

[pottyprof]

Good points Essan.

When it comes to alien ‘visitors’ the physics and science just does not hold it up. Or at lest the known science.

The distances and energy are just so so great. I know there are wormhole theories black holes and such. This things are great in book and ideas, but in the actual world the reality falls apart.

But yet we can make a photon physically appear in two places at the same time... Weird science.. :lol:

[eyeofthestorm]

I think we should be open to all the possible explanations, also i should also point out that just because we cant achieve interstellar travel, doesn't mean that another advanced civilization hasn't figured this out. There are many discovery's which we are yet to discover and things out there probably unknown to us.

I'm doubtful that all UFOs (although most are these days) are secret projects. it is well documented and is currently being declassified in governments such as france and UK that UFOs have been seen by very credible people, including Pilots, Military personal, members of congress, and astronauts. it is also well documented and a declassification process is also currently ongoing which shows that the Ministry of defense of many governments have ordered fighters to intercept and shoot down UFOs. Now why would the British or any other government including Russia US and china order a shoot down of their own air craft? And why would the government risk flying a top secret projects over populated areas for the world to see. There have been hundreds of thousands of cases of UFOs documented other the last 50 years, and around 80-90% are explainable. But that still leaves many completely unexplainable, and these are spotted doing impossible speeds by pilots and military even by the standerd of even the most advanced proto type aircraft. Also many people including famed Apollo 14 astronaut Dr Edgar Michell have even mentioned about the governments involvement with extraterrestrials. Even Obamas Transition chief has called for disclosure for petes sake.

So i think we should be open to the ET explanation, and remember UFOs have been well documneted by governments for over 60 years, some are more open to talking than others IE france and the UK.

Edited January 27, 2009 by eyeofthestorm

[Waveform]

Just because we do not know of any way to travel those kind of distances in a relatively short time does not mean it is not possible.

You could be right. I certainly would not argue your premise here, but the probabilities I think would be very small.

We would have to find a totally different law in physics that some how could supersede the ones that now govern us, and yet not break them.

Sort of like the gravitational law. If you climb to to top of a very tall building and jump, neglecting drag and all that stuff, the G constant says you will fall 32.2 ft the first second, the next second you will fall 64.4ft, and so on until you hit terminal velocity. This can not be changed.

If there was some way you could get in and miraculously change this, the instant you did (as strange as it sound) the whole universe would become unstable.

All these laws work; gravity, conservation of energy, thermodynamics, motion, Electrostatic Laws,etc.

If they didn't or if they could be broken, we simply would not be here. And some of these are the laws that would prevent long interstellar (at least considering our life spans).

You mentioned long distanced over relatively short time.

That is sort of possible now, if we could get enough velocity. If we could hit +90% the speed of light, time dilation would start to make a difference.It would at least make a 'relative' difference between us traveling and the place we left.

Who knows, in the future some obscure thing may be found to work around all this. I very much doubt it, but then......

[Essan]

I consider aliens to be the least likely - logically and scientifically - explanation and only to be invoked where no other possible explantion exists. Just the odds of aliens only slightly more advanced than us visting Earth at this precise time is, well, astronomical.

An event (a species develops technology) occurs on Earth once every 4,500,000,000 years and they just happen to arrive right on time?????? Nah, way too big a coincidence.

The majority of UFOs turn out to have simple explanations, a small number do not but could be explained by secret military aircraft and unexplained natural phenomena (ball lightning, earthquake lights etc).

And any alien even vaguely humanoid in appearance comes from Earth. Or I'm a 6 mile wide sentient Gladstone Bag made of plutonium.

Just because Douglas Adams described most aliens as looking like humans doesn't mean he was right

[pottyprof]

http://www.sanandaseagles.com/pages/spacecraft_in_art.html

Not always a modern phenomina...

[Chris Knight]

But yet we can make a photon physically appear in two places at the same time... Weird science..

Ok, that makes 18½ testicles, but that's still a lot!

[PersianPaladin]

http://www.sanandaseagles.com/pages/spacecraft_in_art.html

Not always a modern phenomina...

I'm sure there are other explanations of that.

Some interesting posts here; and I do agree with the line that there are overwhelming laws in the universe that basically prohibit travelling at light speed and maintaining any form of matter. We do know photons pretty much have no mass to them; so its not a good starting point for humans or anything else.

There is the possibility of inter-dimensional aspects or beings; but thats verging on science fiction atm.

[Mondy]

I'm not saying this is correct or anything, I just find it very interesting: -

"This 10-page summary of witness testimony on UFO facts is taken from the book Disclosure, compiled by Steven M. Greer, MD. Page numbers from the book for each excerpt are given at the end of each statement. These testimonies were taken verbatim from video interviews with the witnesses, which include astronauts, generals, admirals, other top government and military officials.."

http://www.wanttoknow.info/ufocover-up10pg

As one who generally reads your posts and often updated signature(s) I see another "cover up/conspiracy" is mentioned within.

I recall at least three so far from your goodself:

* 9/11 - Conspiracy/Cover-up

* Obama - your last sig (before being changed) mentioned your [and/or others] misgivings in his elected capacity

* UFO - this thread etc......

I reckon you should visit the climate change threads - loads more like you in there who try to get into in other peoples heads with worry tactics.

[eyeofthestorm]

Just to clarify about the possibility of top secret aircraft, there are special designated areas where the RAF/ US air force fly secret projects, and having heard from defense officials who were involved in this, they are not allowed to fly them over populated areas.

After all what good is the word "Secret" if the world is there to witness it, and in the event of a malfunction and crash they wouldn't risk allowing classified materials getting into public hands.

So the question is what are we left with,we shouldn't rule anything out including the military explanation, but to me seems one of the more unlikely ones.

Below is the full disclosure 500 page briefing document prepared for members of the US congress, GOV and Press, interesting stuff.

http://www.galactic-server.com/radio/greer/disclosure1.html

Edited January 27, 2009 by eyeofthestorm