Ufo Facts And A Solution To The Energy Crisis

[Waveform]

There is the possibility of inter-dimensional aspects or beings; but that's verging on science fiction atm.

Yes, we are right on the fringe here. If you are referring to inter dimension as in M theory then the dimensions are probably exceedingly small. Not totally sure here, but I think there is some thought even less that the Planck length.

The other dimensional thing would also be involved in M theory. Other universes or 'branes'. If they exist they could be very close but almost absolutely separated from us. Nothing could transverse between them not even information.

Perhaps a slight chance gravity could interact but that's it.

Planck Lenght

[Methuselah]

There's one thing about all this UFO stuff that annoys me: If I (being a mere mortal) see a UFO, I am imagining it; if an airline pilot, policeman or member of Congress sees it, however, he or she is by definition a 'credible witness'...What makes these good folks so special? Surely, it's not only plebeian brains that misconstrue ingoing information, making fanciful patterns where none exist?

IMO, the fact that these 'credible witnesses' see things too says more about the human condition than it does about the alienness or otherwise of unidentified flying objects!

[Gray-Wolf]

Perhaps a slight chance gravity could interact but that's it.

It's a start isn't it? If we think our force of gravity is a 'leach out' from another dimension (hence it's feeble nature when compared to other 'natural forces') then surely other ways of 'leaching out' are possible?

Since the advent of string theory I've had many of my supposed 'facts' displaced so I'm keeping my mind 'wide open' on the potential of a multiverse.

[full_frontal_occlusion]

Everyone loves a great mystery and as mysteries go, they don't get much better than UFO's.

Let's look at some incontrovertible facts:

1) We assume we know a lot about the physical laws and nature of matter and their limitations for harnessing. Actually, we know very little about what gravity is, whether quarks are truly the most fundamental particles in the universe, er...is our universe the only one? why do particles have the equivalence of mass and energy? What is pure energy? Where did the anti-particles disappear to? Why did the universe burst out of nothing? When the LHC matures as an experiment, we may find that most of the laws of physics as currently understood, are a red herring.

2) Just because little green men (IF they exist) may have found a way of interstellar (or even time) travel, does not mean they have also evolved common sense as we would describe it. e.g. comparing modern technology with say, that of stone age man, would we not be perceived as gods? Why then in our omnipotent wisdom, would we point weapons of mass destruction at each other? engage in wars of religon? have the capability to intervene but choose to stand back and watch the slaughter of children?

3) It is not beyond the realms of possibilty that little green men are genetically engineered aliens specifically created to work and survive in our envionment. i.e. the ultimate astronaut with the ultimate spacesuit? Perhaps they are less concerned about eugenics and PC in that respect than we are?

4) The improbability theory of timing coincidence between humans and aliens is irrelevent if one species has mastered the ability of time travel.

All I'm saying is that I agree, the most likely explanations for UFO's are mundane with nothing extra-terrestrial about them. But precisely because we base all our reasoning on the extent of our existing limited (and possibly flawed) scientific knowledge, we must keep open the possibility that an alternative truth is more fantastic than the fiction as has so often been demonstrated in our own history.

ffO.

Edited January 28, 2009 by full_frontal_occlusion

[PersianPaladin]

As one who generally reads your posts and often updated signature(s) I see another "cover up/conspiracy" is mentioned within.

I recall at least three so far from your goodself:

* 9/11 - Conspiracy/Cover-up

* Obama - your last sig (before being changed) mentioned your [and/or others] misgivings in his elected capacity

* UFO - this thread etc......

I reckon you should visit the climate change threads - loads more like you in there who try to get into in other peoples heads with worry tactics.

Erm....I never implied that I believe in aliens and neither did I endorse or say that in my post at the start of this thread was true either. I am skeptical of 'extraterrestial' claims, if you read my responses on this very thread.

As for 9/11...there is forensic scientific evidence that controlled demolition using nano-thermate and rdx brought down the world trade centre towers and building 7. Check out Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth on Google. Even a moderator on this very forum posted the link in 'Serious Discussion' to bring up the issue.

Whats wrong with bringing up controversial issues? As long as one has a case, then I say be your own lawyer and have the balls to make it.

Edited January 28, 2009 by PersianPaladin

[Hemlock]

A lot of sightings these days,are probably United States projects based on reverse enginnered technology. They have had well over 6 decades to figure out the technology behind the craft that are visiting and have been flying their own since the 1960s.

Is it not a tad more plausible that the sighting are just 'Black' project aircraft such as the USA Stealths?

I do think we are being perhaps a tad arrogant to think that so called 'Little Green men' have navigated 1000's of light years dodging asteroid belts, supernova's black holes etc etc only to arrive at Planet earth and promptly crash in a desert somewhere.

[pottyprof]

Doesn't answer the question of the Dogon stories or their knowledge of the stars.. Same as the Zulu stories. I don't think the US airforce or top secret projects were around 10,000 years ago..

[PersianPaladin]

Doesn't answer the question of the Dogon stories or their knowledge of the stars.. Same as the Zulu stories. I don't think the US airforce or top secret projects were around 10,000 years ago..

I don't know if those images aren't photoshopped.

:lol:

[eyeofthestorm]

Is it not a tad more plausible that the sighting are just 'Black' project aircraft such as the USA Stealths?

I do think we are being perhaps a tad arrogant to think that so called 'Little Green men' have navigated 1000's of light years dodging asteroid belts, supernova's black holes etc etc only to arrive at Planet earth and promptly crash in a desert somewhere.

Possibly could account for some of the sightings, but like i said there are a number of restrictions of where secret aircraft are allowed fly. And i'm sure that military pilots would recognize their own aircraft; there have been some cases where pilots flying the stealth bombers have spotted these objects.

The craft that are spotted are not just saucer shaped either, some are triangular, some are cigar shaped. And there are a few cases where some of these objects are over a mile in diameter, with radar confirmation.

Now i expect at least some of the sightings are in fact militray, and there have been a number of officials who have told that the US in particular have tried to figure out the Flying saucer technology. Flying saucers was the old term for UFOs in the 1950 and 60s. Ben Rich former head of lockhead Martin warned on his death bed that, and i'm quoting him now.

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do."

Also President Eisenhower's National security chief, COL Philip Corso, explained that technology such as Fiber optics and lasers have come from back engineered extraterrestrial technology

As for UFO crashes, they are very rare and have only been a couple known cases; Roswell was one and has been confirmed by hundreds of witnesses, including militray officials who were involved with the incident.

But unfortunately the US has been developing some very advanced weaponry which some claim have been trying to bring down UFOs, whether they have been successful i haven't got a clue; and nobody has been able to clarify these claims.

Edited January 29, 2009 by eyeofthestorm

[Waveform]

Doesn't answer the question of the Dogon stories or their knowledge of the stars.. Same as the Zulu stories. I don't think the US airforce or top secret projects were around 10,000 years ago..

I think there is / was a certain amount of controversy on the Sirius B thing. The other train of thought being that the stories were introduced to the Dogon by exposure to western culture and missionaries in the middle 1800s. Evidently there is an article by W. Van Beck in _Current Anthropology_, vol. 32, pp.139-167, 1991 dealing with this and putting it under logical scrutiny, showing a multitude of flaws in the extraterrestrial idea.

I have not read it,thus have no comment on it.

I do have a generalized comment though.

A lot of authors that write these type of stories are in the business of selling books. Factual good science is the least on their minds. In fact that is the least thing they want.

UFOs, pyramid power, perpetual energy, Bermuda Triangle, Abominable Snowmen, etc make money for these people. They in some cases put money via tourism into town coffers.

I suppose to a certain extent this is OK, although I say that with a certain degree of reluctance.

I know I sound like an old fart. Although, I do have an open mind..

However, quoting from Harold T. Stone

"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

[The watcher]

The term "UFO" is misinterpreted by most as being alien life form in spacecraft. In actual fact it is not the case.

"Unidentified Flying Object" can be anything that approaches our atmosphere or is seen in the air that we don't have knowledge of and there are many things that we (as humans) do still not understand, so coming to a conclusion that UFO means specifically alien spacecraft is as absurd as thinking bread is always white.

To my knowledge most cases are dismissed as hoaxs or indeed a case of people telling the truth, just unaware that what they seen could be explained. Most commonly Venus, Comets and Meteors are the cause of UFO sightings, other things such as Ball lightning, Weather Ballons, Satellites (orbiting or returning into atmosphere), Lenticular clouds, Far off aircraft landing lights, etc are also explanations.

It would be pointless for other planet life forms to travel so far just to fly around in our atmosphere and make silly gestures in crops, we have had no communication via radio (or anything else for that matter) and no physical evidence (ie spaceships, bodies, excrement) to really cement the belief.

However, I do believe life exists somewhere on a distant planet simply because there are Trillions upon trillions of Stars and planets, therefore the chances are astranomically high for life to exist in a far off Galaxy, maybe even our own.....but as to their knowledge/intelligence or futuristic technology, they would could not be advanced far enough to travel vast distances of space in short enough time, the only option for anyone ever to travel far enough would be if we finally configure wormhole analysis and leap through space in wormholes/blackholes (which as far as Im concerned is as much sci-fi/advanced as we could get as humans.

[Tn9]

This is a weird one i did not know where to post it,so move if its the case,you may know the story ,you may not:

Here's one. It's called the Dyatlov Pass Accident. Oh my God, yes. I stumbled over this delicious tale just recently over at Metafilter and it's one of those stories that contains all the best elements of a deep, resonant creep-out. Inexplicable behavior. Bizarre factoids. Inconclusive evidence. Missing body parts. And not a single clue, almost 50 years later, as to what really happened.

The nutshell: In 1959, nine experienced Russian cross-country skiers — seven men and two women, led by a man named Igor Dyatlov — headed to the Ural Mountains, to a slope called Kholat Syakhl (Mansi language for "Mountain of the Dead," ahem) for a rugged, wintry trek. On their way up, they are apparently hit by inclement weather and veer off course and decide to set up camp and wait it out. All is calm. All is fine and good. They even take pictures of camp, the scenery, each other. The weather is not so bad. They go to sleep.

Then, something happens. In the middle of the night all nine suddenly leap out of their tents as fast as possible, ripping them open from the inside (not even enough time to untie the doors) and race out into the sub-zero temps, without coats or boots or skis, most in their underwear, some even barefoot or with a single sock or boot. It is 30 degrees below zero, Celsius. A few make it as far as a kilometer and a half down the slope. All nine, as you might expect, quickly die.

And so it begins.

Why did they rush out, unable to even grab a coat or blanket? What came at them? The three-month investigation revealed that five of the trekkers died from simple hypothermia, with no apparent trauma at all, no signs of attack, struggle, no outward injuries of any kind. However, two of the other four apparently suffered massive internal traumas to the chest, like you would if you were hit by a car. One's skull was crushed. All four of these were found far from the other five. But still, no signs of external injuries.

Not good enough? How about this: One of the women was missing her tongue.

Oh, it gets better. And weirder.

Tests of the few scraps of clothing revealed very high levels of radiation. Evidence found at the campsite indicates the trekkers might've been blinded. Eyewitnesses around the area report seeing "bright flying spheres" in the sky during the same months. And oh yes, relatives at the funeral swear the skin of their dead loved ones was tanned, tinted dark orange or brown. And their hair had all turned completely gray.

Wait, what?

The final, official explanation as to what caused such bizarre behavior from otherwise well-trained, experienced mountaineers? An "unknown compelling force." Indeed.

Here's the problem: All the convenient, logical explanations — avalanche, animal attack, secret military nuke test — fail. Russian authorities held a three-month investigation. Rescuers, experts picked through every piece of evidence. There were no signs of natural disaster. And if it was just an avalanche, why was the area closed off for three years following the event, and all related documents put in a secret Russian archive until 1990? If it was some sort of weird nuclear megablast (which I suppose may tint you orange, but won't turn your hair gray), what the hell happened to her tongue?

I love stories like this. I hate stories like this.

Sure, you want to go for the logical. Hell, who knows what hellish weaponry they were testing in the mountains in Khrushchev's Russia in the late '50s? Who knows what dark mysteries are buried in the landscape by the world's militaries as they test their dark deeds? The rule goes like this: Any weapon of horror and death man's mind can conceive, odds are gruesomely good the government or military has considered it. Or even built it.

Then again, maybe not. The "horrifying military experiments" theory, spawn of a thousand movies and conspiracy theories, has one fatal flaw: proof. What, 75 years of high-tech military advances and hundreds of billions of dollars spent and a million people working in various sinister branches of the military, and yet not one scrap of truly bizarre or outrageous military weaponry has popped up in the public sphere, been leaked or revealed or unearthed? This is the Internet/YouTube/nothing's-secret age — you'd think we'd get at least one piece of irrefutable evidence proving how the Pentagon has been testing 10-story remote-controlled radioactive spiders with lasers for eyes. Or something. Not that I trust the government, per se. They just aren't that smart.

This is both the joy and horror of stories like Dyatlov — they make your mind jump and bend and struggle. Logic fails quickly. Easy explanations don't work. Complicated ones feel incomplete. The creepiness takes hold, begins to burrow, make you squirm.

So of course, you jump further. You reach for the paranormal, metaphysical, unknowable, to things like UFOs and spirits and ghosts, dark forces and mysticism and the occult, because, well, that's where the action is. That's where we get to touch the void, dance on the edge of perception, realize how little we truly know of anything.

After all, if you really think all there is to this world is what your five senses show you, if you think there's always got to be a logical, earthbound explanation for stories like Dyatlov, well, you might as well just join a megachurch and wipe your brain and your intuition and your deep, dark curiosity clean right now.

As Dyatlov himself might say, his skin orange and hair gray and eyes wide wide wide, you think you know, but you have no idea.

[Tn9]

Weather modification?who knows

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89c_1235734713

[Tn9]

1956: RADAR/VISUAL JET CHASE OVER BENTWATER, UK

http://www.ufologie.net/htm/bentwaters56.htm

Edited March 17, 2009 by TN9

[Tn9]

CLAIMED NON-TERRESTRIAL DISC AIRCRAFT IN GERMAN POSSESSION: THE FREIBURG DISC

(1936)

DISCLAIMER: While this page is included in the German disc development chronology, the author does not necessarily support this view of how the Haunebu craft came into existence. The Haunebu project of 1935 started BEFORE the Freiburg crash of 1936 and the SS was already working off Nikolai Tesla's known works on broadcast power for aircraft propulsion, which would require something more complicated than any aircraft or helicopter in existence to fly at fantastic speeds. His Electrogravitational disc aircraft design is fairly close to the final Haunebu design. There are no known existing photos of the Freiburg disc, no dimensions known, nor means of non-terrestrial propulsion. Therefore, this article is provisional. You decide what to believe.

The

Thule and Vril Gesellschaften (Societies), with technical assistance of the SS Technical Branch, were possibly the first groups in history to attempt the reverse-engineering of a non-terrestrial spacecraft based upon persistent reports of a crashed disc discovered in the Schwarzwald (Black Forest) near Freiburg in 1936.

German writer John von Helsing described the discovery of a crashed disc-shaped object and claims that this revolutionary technology was taken and (combined with the information the Vril Gesellschaft had received through psychic channeling) was incorporated into a joint project called the H-Gerät, or Haunebu disc machine which was initiated in the previous year. Thule financed the effort, Vril guided the direction of development, and the SS Technical Branch built the machine somewhere in NW Germany under the highest security.

It is claimed that from the crashed disc taken to Wewelsburg Castle the SS with Vril guidance developed a new form of propulsion, a field drive of immense power for the Haunebu disc.

Vril was obsessed with the concept of power derived from the “Black Sun” - an invisible eternal light with infinite power not visible to the human eye but existing in what we now call anti-matter. It was called at that time, however, “The Light of the Godhead” and was relentlessly pursued by Vril. The SS Technical Branch E-IV Unit (Entwicklungsstelle 4) was tasked with developing alternative energies by Reichsführer SS Himmler, an occultist himself, so a joint effort was beneficial to everyone involved with the Haunebu projekt.

Haunebu I flight disc with

Donar KSK experimental beam weapon mount

The Haunebu I was the first of the large German Flugscheiben (Flight Discs) and took to the air with a Tachyonator 7 drive (a.k.a. Thule Triebwerk) in August 1939, just a few weeks prior to the outbreak of World War II. It is believed that this drive was a form of electro-magnetic-gravitic (EMG) type.

Thule Triebwerk Tachyonator 7

ABOUT WEWELSBURG

Himmler’s strength of occult beliefs and the potential power of both ritual magic and metaphysical scientific experimentation was so great that he ordered construction of many secret chambers below the Wewelsburg Castle fortress in Westphalia.

Himmler’s impressive fortress-like personal Valhalla, Wewelsburg Castle, where the Freiburg disc was reverse-engineered

The ruin was purchased in 1934 and was rebuilt over many years at a cost of an estimated 15 million RM! Dedicated to the occult beliefs of the SS, Himmler formed a mystical “Black Sun Order” on the premises that practiced both ritual ceremonies as well as metaphysical experimentation. This is where the SS Technical Branch originated from with studies in reviving Alchemy and studying the Black Arts. The SS honored the Teutonic Knights and Himmler even constructed a mystical “Hall of the Dead” below the castle’s main banqueting hall where the ashes of his closest “disciples” were to be kept in 12 urns upon their deaths!

Wewelsburg ceremonial chamber

OCCULT CEREMONIES AND RITUAL SACRIFICES

The “Hall of the Dead” consisted of a circular chamber with twelve low stone platforms around its walls. In the center of the room was an worship altar. This alter was the focal point of the room with frantic attempts made by the Order to invoke dark, mystical powers of the “Black Sun”. Twelve “Knight” initiates would stand, one on each of the stone platforms against the walls facing the central altar, and would attempt to channel psychic power to the high priest, who probably was Himmler in person. These SS ceremonies required human blood sacrifice, which was not a problem; the SS concentration camps and prisons were full of them. A small group of sacrificial victims were kept at the fortress for this very purpose.

Black sun wheel worshipped by the SS, DHvSS, Vril and Thule Gesellschaften

Wewelsburg SS Badge

While there is no positive evidence that any “dark powers” were actually released during these Satanic rituals, one thing is certain; if they were not, it wasn’t for the lack of effort. Himmler believed that the rituals helped the German war effort and that upon ultimate victory Wewelsburg would become the next spiritual center of the world.

DEMONIC METAPHYSICAL SCIENCE

To this end, Wewelsburg was dedicated to pioneering incredible energies that could be used in the war effort. It was the “Black Sun” concept that gave inspiration for a wide field of technologies considered not only unconventional science but demonic technology in the 1940s: beam weaponry, weather manipulation, both a Cold and Molecular bomb, ion-plasma energy; and of course, the radical disc machines.

When the Freiburg disc was hauled back to Wewelsburg it is claimed to have been scientifically dissected for any and all military value. While Vril and Thule had experimented with an “Otherworld Flight Machine” referred to as the JFM from 1922-24, no inter-dimensional space flight was believed achieved with this machine despite the psychic channeling of Vril Chefin Maria Orsic. Clearly, non-terrestrial influence did not lead to a suitable drive for the early purely German disc…but the crashed Freiburg non-terrestrial technology was something very different - actual hardware. In addition to the SS metaphysical research they also incorporated German quantum theory and the works of Nikolai Tesla into the disc development programs; consequently, such a merging of non-terrestrial and human technology probably led to the Haunebu I.

But even as Thule and Vril had some success with the early 1937-1941 RFZ (Rundflugzeug/Round Aircraft)disc aircraft, it was the Haunebu series of discs that were far superior in the end.

The Freiburg disc is claimed to be the origin of the Tachyonator 7 drive for these machines - the first human product of reverse-engineering of non-terrestrial technology.

Possible "Freiburg" types over Nazi Berlin 1935

Contrast the above with the

Tesla-designed “electro gravitational” disc aircraft

Nazi-Grey connection artwork

[Pennine Ten Foot Drifts]

To me ET visiting us is 1 in virtually infinity chance.

Lets not forget, the universe is infinite, so if there is any chance at all of something existing, throughout the universe it will exist, an infinite number of times !!!