Winter 08-09, How Will It Rank Against Others?

[DaBrigg]

I feel that this winter so far has been more about the quantity of cold weather rather than quality.

I live by the coast, and most of what we have had so far has been too marginal to deliver anything worth remembering. We seem to have had only very brief incursions of what I would call proper deep cold air and low thicknesses. Surface cold doesnt quite do the job here. Im sure many would disagree, but from an IMBY perspective nothing particularly exceptional has occured, apart from the persistant and prolonged nature of the colder than normal weather.

For instance, we have had a complete absense of potent northerlies since the late October event. This event was impressive, but IMO a little too early in the season to be quite as potent as it COULD have been had the exact same set-up occured later on in the season. Im still optimistic for the rest of the winter mind, and admit it has been a very welcome change to recent years. :lol:

[rbw]

For me here in Gloucester I would describe this winter as a typical 70s winter. People talk of 80's winters but that was something new to me when we had the first one. I was used to moderately cold winters with frequent incidents of wet snow giving about 3 inches and melting quite quickly, just like we have at the moment. Very low temperatures and frozen snow was something that didn't come to these parts until 1979 as far as I can recall (excluding of course the early 60s but I'm not old enough to remember that)

Richard

[stewfox]

1987-88: 37

Jan87 was very cold with some very low night temps and a CET of 0.8 and im sure it was not much milder in Manchester ?

Where do you get these figures from ?

[BLAST FROM THE PAST]

I'll stick my neck out and say a sub 3c month is on and we are looking at possible sub 2c. The cold blast to come has chances of being in the severe category for intensity and longevity. Now looking a CET of 3.5 and 3.3 so far, even if we are sub 3 this month rather than sub 2 it has to be viewed as a 'great' winter. If we turn out the month as average then a 'good' winter has been had.

BFTP

[qseghj6]

I have just spent the last hour or so reading the forecasts at the bottom of the 62 / 63 charts and wishing this year would compare !

http://www.mikett.plus.com/winter-62-63-ma...uary/index1.htm

http://www.mikett.plus.com/winter-62-63-ma...uary/index1.htm

http://www.mikett.plus.com/winter-62-63-ma...arch/index1.htm

Enjoy

[WhiteFox]

The idea that there has been no depth to any of the cold and the cold hasn't been very impressive is a total fallacy, the facts are we had one of the coldest starts to Jan in a very long time that beats even the first 10 days of Jan 1963 I believe and we also cannot ignore that December was very below average given it was 1.6C below average...

It is a totally subjective judgement on my part (which I admit!), but I think that the cold start to January was based on fairly low overnight temperatures and fairly low maxima with few ice days if any. When I say 'depth of cold' I mean a run of days with overnight minima well below freezing (widespread -8oC or below) and maxima of no more than -1oC. As far as I recall (and I'm not keeping records, but going on what I've read) we have had perhaps one ice day (although I was away most of December so I'm happy to be corrected) and a few nights of very cold (up to -6oC widespread) but not bitterly cold (all in the South - being selfish!). Another reason for my beliefs on depth of cold is the fact that the snowfall is quickly followed by a thaw rather than clearing and then barely thawing for at least a few days. This is still happening in some Northern areas (and may yet happen in the South), but up to now the snow has been of the 'average' winter variety pre-1988 where frontal snow delivered and then quite quickly disappeared. There is time for this to change, but this winter has not yet matched 1996 for me in Nottingham, or 1991 in Reading, and will not come close, barring a major outbreak, to some of the classics prior to 1987. On the point of 1987, if that cold spell had occurred from January 1st, I'd ponder that it would be possible for the start of January 1987 to surpass early January this year; it's all about timing!

I have just spent the last hour or so reading the forecasts at the bottom of the 62 / 63 charts and wishing this year would compare !

Enjoy

Lack of the cold continent; that's why this hasn't been a real classic...

Edited February 5, 2009 by WhiteFox

[La Bise]

It has been the best winter since I arrived in the UK for consistency. Very little mild weather, tons of frost, hardly a morning when I woke up and did without a jumper to go to work. If that means little snow due to drier conditions, so be it, I fail to seen the point of a few days of snow here and there with endless zonal dross the rest of the time. Shave off a couple of degrees from the avg and that's a typical winter of my youth.

[Phil UK]

I think that living for 37.7 years of my life in Solihull. This would be the 4th in comparison to 1978, 1982 and 1991 for snow and cold temperatures.

Now where are the global warming brainwashing anarchists now?

The silence is deafening. B)

Phil.

[qseghj6]

I think that living for 37.7 years of my life in Solihull. This would be the 4th in comparison to 1978, 1982 and 1991 for snow and cold temperatures.

Now where are the global warming brainwashing anarchists now?

The silence is deafening.

Phil.

They will be back, hopefully not in greater numbers. They will proclaim that the global economic downturn is causing less CO2 emissions around the globe, that its a temporary blip and we will be back to warming in 10 years.

[Weather-history]

Jan87 was very cold with some very low night temps and a CET of 0.8 and im sure it was not much milder in Manchester ?

You are quite right however you have misread it

1987-88 refers to December 1987, January 1988, February 1988

[kold weather]

Possibly Whitefox though to get a 10 day cold spell that gives temps around 0C on average is still pretty decent, of course its not exceptional but its still pretty impressive cold, esp when you compare it to everything we've had in the last decade and a half!

[Guest]

I write this as another heavy snow storm is over head

I just hope this thread doesnt become 'well its been a mild winter' compared to the good old days.

I would like people to post 'facts' rather then the its use to be 5ft deep for 3 months of the year type stuff, it never was.

Clearly 47 and 63 stand out but me (who can remember back to the early 70s) it does have the makings of a classic

why ?

Snow in october/November/December/January and February I doubt even 63 or 47 equal that in fact with snow in march and april 2008 that 7 months and i guess we could get 9 months of snow between April 2008 and April 2009 !

Lets try and stay objective does it compare to 1740 of course not but less not go around and say its been slighter warmer then the long term average

ps CET for feb 4.3 below average at present

I am talking about facts and much lower temperatures during the winter of 62/63 I was a scientific assistant with the Met office at Heathrow and saw it first hand. Your stats do not tell you about the Thames freezing over and yes there were drifts 5 feet deep and more. I won't go as far as to say we had lying snow for 3 months but it was not far short.

Even the winters of the early 70's were nothing compared to this. Some 50 years ago this winter woujld not have been considered unsual except for the early snow falls in Oct and Nov so before you start inferring that us older ones are not dealing directly in facts, please get your facts right in the first place!

[acbrixton]

One feature that others have raised is the relative lack, so far, of any very mild weather: Philip Eden gives the highest January 2009 maximum for Hampstead as 9.7c. My guess is that from and including 23rd December at least up to and including 12th February Hampstead will not have reached 10c i.e. a continuous period of 52 days. I imagine that over the same period central London will not have reached 12c.

Does anyone know how notable (or not) this is?

regards

ACB

[kold weather]

I suspect there was a period in 05-06 that was like that, its true that winter was more noteable for its lack of mild rather then cold air, this winter is coming in it seems a good deal colder then that one at this early stage simply because we have actually seen pretty potent cold spells if the truth be known, the period between 29th December-10th December probably had numerous ice days within it, also the first 6 days of Feb have come in close to 0C (probably a little above) as well and thats going to continue I suspect for at the the very least a few days yet..

[acbrixton]

Going back to Philip's site it appears that at Hampstead the temperature remained below 12c from 25th December 2005 to about 23rd March 2006.

regards

ACB

[Methuselah]

Here, probably the best since 2001...Although this year's snowfall amounts don't compare at all well to those of that winter.

Plenty of time for things to change though. :lol:

[West is Best]

I would agree with the above the best winter for 20years but not one of the true greats.

This thread almost ranks alongside the winter is over one - someone has a sense of humour as I'm currently witnessing the heaviest snowfall I've ever seen in the UK.

Let's come back to this in a month or so's time. Completely impossible to assess this at the moment. If this month continues in the same vein as the moment this winter will rank alongside 1978/9 and 1991. But if we revert to a milder finale then I suppose it would be more akin to some of the fine ones in the 1980's.

It's just too early to tell. It would be a bit like whispering in your lover's ear half way through a passionate session 'how was it for you love?'. Not only would it be difficult to judge at that point, it might also take away the enjoyment ... :lol:

Edited February 6, 2009 by West is Best

[Polar Low]

This winter has been absolutely superb here... 2 months of sustained cold and 4 seperate occasions this winter I have seen more snow than any other. 6 inches has fell TWICE in the last week... the last time that happened here was 1991 and now it's happened twice within 4 days in 2009. With further cold weather to come, and more snowfall looking likely, this will go down as one of the best in my living memory.

I will remember it for:

Intensity of snowfall,

Regularity of snowfall,

Prolonged lying snow,

Snow depth,

Constant below average temperatures.

[PB22]

Its been a cold winter here, and we are probably on course for a record number of frosts. However, hardly any snowfall, so in that aspect a very disappointing winter and quite normal for recent times. The number of frosts however, show this was not a typical recent winter here.

[Methuselah]

Its been a cold winter here, and we are probably on course for a record number of frosts. However, hardly any snowfall, so in that aspect a very disappointing winter and quite normal for recent times. The number of frosts however, show this was not a typical recent winter here.

Have to agree about the frosts, Paul...We've had so many I've lost count.

[Grimsby Snow Lover]

Have to agree about the frosts, Paul...We've had so many I've lost count.

In terms of number of Frosts I would also have to agree that they have been a lot more frequent this year compared to the last few. Snow fall has up to now been in short supply. We haven't had a decent covering since the November northerly (which I suppose was a great achievement). If we get another covering, 2cm will do before then end of March then I will be more than satisfied.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Grimsby Snow Lover

[stewfox]

In terms of number of Frosts I would also have to agree that they have been a lot more frequent this year compared to the last few. Snow fall has up to now been in short supply. We haven't had a decent covering since the November northerly (which I suppose was a great achievement). If we get another covering, 2cm will do before then end of March then I will be more than satisfied.

More heavy snow fall here now. This week I would guess , I have seen more snow fall then at any other time and that includes the 70s and 80s

[Terminal Moraine]

Looking at this on a purely parochial basis, this winter has certainly been more in line with a 'traditional' winter than many of those in the past 10 years or so.

February here would only have to return a mean lower than 4.2c to make this the coldest winter of the current decade and would have to come in lower than 2.7c to be colder than 1996/97 ( not difficult as the 30 year Feb' mean here is 2.4c ).

It would take a major jump into cold territory however to beat 1995/96, this would require a Feb' mean lower than -0.6c which would place it, temperature wise, close to the 1979 category; not impossible but unlikely.

[Tucco]

Looking at this on a purely parochial basis, this winter has certainly been more in line with a 'traditional' winter than many of those in the past 10 years or so.

February here would only have to return a mean lower than 4.2c to make this the coldest winter of the current decade and would have to come in lower than 2.7c to be colder than 1996/97 ( not difficult as the 30 year Feb' mean here is 2.4c ).

It would take a major jump into cold territory however to beat 1995/96, this would require a Feb' mean lower than -0.6c which would place it, temperature wise, close to the 1979 category; not impossible but unlikely.

Carn't see us get close to 1995/96 winter either, over the North half of the UK this was the last real prolonged winter. Yet this was an irrelevance compared to 1978/79, how many snow days lying did you have that winter around 80?

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

[Terminal Moraine]

Carn't see us get close to 1995/96 winter either, over the North half of the UK this was the last real prolonged winter. Yet this was an irrelevance compared to 1978/79, how many snow days lying did you have that winter around 80?

Mark

Teesdale,Co Durham

Agree with that, Mark. 1979 was in a league of its own unless you go back as far as 1963 or 1947. We had 68 mornings with snow lying in the winter of 1978/79 and March had another 12 days; apart from January 9th there was continuous snow cover from Dec' 29th 1978 until March 2nd 1979, most of it between 30 and 60cm level depth.

No other winter since has managed even 50 mornings with snow lying, the closest being 46 in 1985/86 and 44 in 1995/96.