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Winter 08-09, How Will It Rank Against Others?


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Posted
  • Location: Dublin Coast, Ireland
  • Location: Dublin Coast, Ireland

Many of us seem to agree that it is the persistence of the cold rather than the intensity of the cold thats most impressive about this winter so far. As I put it in an earlier post, the quantity rather than the quality.

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Posted
  • Location: Sedgley / Dudley - West Midlands - 757ft (219m) asl
  • Location: Sedgley / Dudley - West Midlands - 757ft (219m) asl

Yes agree with that - persistant continental cool air.

midlands (north of birmingham) so far in terms of snowfall has been low........

born in 81.....first good snowfall (6 inches plus) I can remember was the 87 one. Since then jan '88, dec 90 (probably the deepest ever single snow event in my lifetime!!! - brought the mids to a standstill), feb 91 (can remember this being the coldest ever snap I have lived through -2 -5 in the day time for a week!) feb 94, mar 95 (snowed north of birmingham - didnt last long but a good 15cms plus), feb 96, nov 96 and then nothing that major since tbh.......prob no more than a 4inch snowfall.

this year snowfall has been poor - no more than 5-7cms and not that cold - but its been below average temps all the time. im on fairly high ground too - around 200m asl.

I find that the media has hyped this cold spell up due to the fact in the south - the snow has been severe.

The potential for heavy snow elsewhere is there but so far its mainly been the south only.......

tomorrow night could be interesting for the midlands as if it all falls as snow and the winds are as strong as the forecasts are suggesting - it could bring a similar storm like the dec 90 one!!!!!

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Posted
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
Yes agree with that - persistant continental cool air.

midlands (north of birmingham) so far in terms of snowfall has been low........

born in 81.....first good snowfall (6 inches plus) I can remember was the 87 one. Since then jan '88, dec 90 (probably the deepest ever single snow event in my lifetime!!! - brought the mids to a standstill), feb 91 (can remember this being the coldest ever snap I have lived through -2 -5 in the day time for a week!) feb 94, mar 95 (snowed north of birmingham - didnt last long but a good 15cms plus), feb 96, nov 96 and then nothing that major since tbh.......prob no more than a 4inch snowfall.

this year snowfall has been poor - no more than 5-7cms and not that cold - but its been below average temps all the time. im on fairly high ground too - around 200m asl.

I find that the media has hyped this cold spell up due to the fact in the south - the snow has been severe.

The potential for heavy snow elsewhere is there but so far its mainly been the south only.......

tomorrow night could be interesting for the midlands as if it all falls as snow and the winds are as strong as the forecasts are suggesting - it could bring a similar storm like the dec 90 one!!!!!

Thats strange that you havent had more than a 4 inch snowfall since nov 96. Im only about 6-7 miles from you and by the end of Feb 9th 2007, I had 9-10 inches of lying snow.

No offence but I think some people seem to have gaps in their memory when it comes to snowfall. March 12th 2004 i also had a 6 inch snowfall too.

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Posted
  • Location: Ayr
  • Location: Ayr

Pretty favourably compared with the snow average - 3 days with lying snow is probably above the 1961-90 average for this coastal location. This is very anecdotal evidence but apparently the infamous 1962/63 winter did not yield much snow in Ayr - my late grandmother sent photographs to my dad (who was living in London at the time) of golfers playing at Turnberry in the frost - whereas London's courses were closed from Boxing Day until the thaw in March!

But it compares poorly regarding quantity of snow - there were several events in the 90s with deeper, longer lasting snow and of course the unforgetable last week of December 2000. Yesterday's snow has nearly gone. There haven't been that many frosts either, my memory of January 2001 is scraping the frost off the bins at school to make 'virtual' snow balls (yep, so desperate for snow that I scavenged the bins!) But there has certainly been a lack of mild weather - I haven't recorded 10C since before Christmas, and no ridiculous 14+C temperatures.

There's still time for it to be even better though and fingers crossed tomorrow's showers will make it 4 days of lying snow :)

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Posted
  • Location: hertfordshire
  • Location: hertfordshire

Hard to answer that until the end of February. I mean if in the last two weeks we see a big freeze with daytime temps remaining below freezing, a much colder version of Feb 2005 if you like then i would rate it up there with some of the best. Especially if it then continued into March (although not technically winter).

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Posted
  • Location: Comrie, Perthshire, Bonnie Scotland
  • Weather Preferences: Winter: bright & frosty/snowy; summer: hot and sunny.
  • Location: Comrie, Perthshire, Bonnie Scotland

In a nutshell, it has been decent, much more seasonal and a return to form. Good to see prolonged lying snow in the cities up here in the Central Belt, for instance.

But was it exceptional? Perhaps in relative terms, for those under 20 and certainly compared to what has been served up over the past couple of decades, but in the grand pantheon of great winters past, it's more UEFA Cup than Champions League.

For me, the true benchmark remains this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Match

It looks unlikely to happen again this year, though preliminary preparations were reported on Wednesday to be underway. However, this event did take place last week:

http://edzellcc.blogspot.com/2009/02/outdo...g-tarfside.html

so maybe there is a wee bit of hope just yet before we're all swept away by global warming/climate change/whatever meteorological bogeyman is dreamt up next.

And perhaps this winter is not quite done with us yet. This chap certainly thinks there's more to come: http://www.groundhog.org/ :rolleyes:

Edited by Polar Gael
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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl

Far too premature I feel to be making any valid judgement on this winter as a whole, it is only the 13th Feb! - for northern parts of the country in particular I say we have only just got past the half way stage. I'll reserve judgement until we reach the spring equinox which is still 5 weeks away, recent years have seen plenty of cold and snow late feb-mid march.

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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
Far too premature I feel to be making any valid judgement on this winter as a whole, it is only the 13th Feb! - for northern parts of the country in particular I say we have only just got past the half way stage. I'll reserve judgement until we reach the spring equinox which is still 5 weeks away, recent years have seen plenty of cold and snow late feb-mid march.

...and to think what a lot of the country had on April 6th last year! I think the latest I've had snow in my memory was April 14th 1999.

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Posted
  • Location: South-West Norfolk
  • Location: South-West Norfolk

Oustanding in my view, especially in the last 20 years anyway. I love snow, but it isn't as important me as it being cold and preferably frosty, we have had so many frosts this year and it has been wonderful. Very little mild weather indeed, superb!

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The period of Christmas was a severely cold spell of weather with severe frosts and widespread ice even of the sea in places, however most recent event has been not as cold here, but far more snowy, having one of these event in a winter is noteworthy having both is impressive, having to the both together would have been fantastic.

So IMO this is a similar winter to that of 1995/96, but not as good as 1990-91.

However a further heavy snowfall event would really be the icing on the cake .

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Posted
  • Location: Buckingham
  • Location: Buckingham

Never that cold, but certainly a very snowy period for this neck of the woods with at least four quite heavy falls of snow and several other lighter ones. The snow is still lying largely unbroken in fields, side roads, gardens (and golf courses) though today has seen the highest temperature so far this month and this has taken its toll on the snowmen and other sculptures.

So frequent moderately heavy snow; no drifting to speak of; quite a lengthy cold spell ( very cold since 1st Feb with the first snow on Monday 2nd and still hanging on) but strangely, never that cold in terms of low maxima or indeed night time minima - another even larger teapot phenomenon?

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Posted
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
Best winter since 1996/97 and you only have to compare it with the last two winter which in my opinion where so dire that I will remember those as the worst in my lifetime. This winter isnt over yet and March can deliver great snow especially over high ground.

Best winter for at least 12 years and if i remember correctly 96/97 ended very abruptly with a very early spring.

Yep spring came but really from Jan 10th there was very little snow onwards into february 6.4 Cet a very boring poor end to that winter,March and april saw no snow here,had a long wait until May for a little snow and lying soft hail.

Need to wait until the spring to see where this winter rates,it still has a good chance of being the coldest since 1995/96.

Where as winter 2005/06 was the coldest since 1996/97 but to me was a much better winter overall as it lasted right through then later in is when the action started late feb well into March :) 23th last cold night. :)

Edited by Snowyowl9
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Posted
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
...and to think what a lot of the country had on April 6th last year! I think the latest I've had snow in my memory was April 14th 1999.

I think If my memory serves me right....didnt we have a snowfall quite late on in April 2001?? can someone confirm this?

Apparently, there has been snow as late as June (June 1975 i think).

Regards, hgb

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Posted
  • Location: Dunblane
  • Location: Dunblane

Well for my little corner of the country, certainly the coldest since 2001, helped by low day-time maxima more than low night-time minima, the coldest so far was -5.4 on Nov 30th. There has been two semi-decent snow falls (Monday and Thursday of last week) from frontal snow – but they have now mostly vanished.

Hard to tell how it compares to others for me as I was bought up in Perthshire and witnessed 78/79, 81/82, 85/86, 90/91 there. So probably the 3rd coldest in my 15 years in Edinburgh, but certainly, from my point of view, not a patch on the 80s.

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Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam

Manchester Winter Index ranked from highest to lowest value

1962-63: 501

----------------

1978-79: 262

1985-86: 159

1981-82: 149

1976-77: 141

1984-85: 140

1995-96: 135

1990-91: 126

2008-09: 116 up to 14th February

1986-87: 100

1977-78: 90

1980-81: 90

1982-83: 85

1983-84: 82

1993-94: 78

2000-01: 77

1996-97: 72

1979-80: 66

2005-06: 59

2001-02: 50

2003-04: 50

1998-99: 47

2004-05: 47

1994-95: 45

2002-03: 44

1992-93: 43

1999-00: 42

1975-76: 41

1991-92: 40

1987-88: 37

2007-08: 37

1973-74: 30

1974-75: 26

1989-90: 26

1997-98: 25

2006-07: 21

1988-89: 20

All 3 winter months have contained a notable cold spell. It has been a long winter. The winters of the 1980s had the intensity but the cold was not distributed evenly across the winter months. The winters of the mid 80s had the cold concentrated in January and February but virtually devoid in December.

The winter 1981-82 was very cold generally from December into mid January but mid January to mid February was very mild.

With the exception of 1962-63, the winters of the 1960s were not especially cold overall, there were cold individual months but the whole package were not spectacularly cold and this point can be seen with this stats question.

Which decade had the most winters having a CET of 3.0 and lower? The 1960s or the 1990s?

Answer: 1990s with 2, 1960s had 1

Edited by Mr_Data
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Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

as always Mr D that is a first class presentation.

Using the same system and comparing the winters certainly shows up, for Manchester, that this one is quite a notable one.

It might be an idea, for new members, if you could post what data you use to arrive at your Manchester winter index.

Edited by johnholmes
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Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam
.

It might be an idea, for new members, if you could post what data you use to arrive at your Manchester winter index.

The equation is [10 x (the number of days of falling wintry preciptation)+(number of days with lying snow)+(number of nights with a minimum of 0C or less)] divided by the mean winter maximum.

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Posted
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks
  • Location: just south of Doncaster, Sth Yorks

there you are folks, thanks Kevin, we can all beaver away with our own statistics and see how this winter, so far, compares with any other winter.

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I'd be inclined to call it a snowy winter but on the mild side. There have only been a few days with a negative max. The most interesting thing about the weather has been the propensity for it to snow as opposed to rain.

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Posted
  • Location: Stourbridge
  • Location: Stourbridge

this winter has delivered the goods, but i dont think it will ever stand out as a exceptional winter. by modern standards, we have done very well. no persistant icelandic trough or heights to our south, and the models always had tantalizingly good charts. what i will say it is more seasonal than memorable, down to the fact we have had long, dry, cold spells with low daytime minima, and plenty of frost, and some fog. we had a snow event in early january, with 3cms lying snow and early february obviously gave a good week or just over of lying snow, but no consistent lying snow. all i can say is, hopefully this is a sign of things to come. i hope the modern curse has been broken. last years winter was horrifically poor, with the only snow coming in april, and a prevalance of the ol 'icelandic low and azores high, with a few two day topplers, which never really amounted to much. i say let the seasons be seasonal. :)

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I think this thread is a really good idea SM and it will be interesting to see where the winter ends up finally. :) At the moment IMO this winter stands out as a beacon of hope in a sea of mild mush that the uk has been subjected to over recent years. I'm not implying a new trend or entering any sort of GW debate but simply given the relentless mild dross thats been served up for so many years at least this has proved so far that its still possible to get something akin to what winter should be about. Down here in France in terms of cold and snow its been alot better than last year especially for more eastern and ne parts. :)

It was reported to me that they had lying snow at Capestang (34310) about 07.01.2009, a very rare event, I have not known this since I have had the house there since 1991. Occasionally it has snowed but never settled according to what my ancien femme de menage told me.

"It did snow last night, 2 or 3 centimetres, which was quite enough to bring Capestang to a halt. I took Joanna to school as usual but she was one of only 20 pupils who turned up as all the buses stopped running! It's sunny now but it isn't melting very much (although the roads are all clear) which shows how cold it is."

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Posted
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
  • Location: Powys Mid Wales borders.
Manchester Winter Index ranked from highest to lowest value

1962-63: 501

----------------

1978-79: 262

1985-86: 159

1981-82: 149

1976-77: 141

1984-85: 140

1995-96: 135

1990-91: 126

2008-09: 116 up to 14th February

1986-87: 100

1977-78: 90

1980-81: 90

1982-83: 85

1983-84: 82

1993-94: 78

2000-01: 77

1996-97: 72

1979-80: 66

2005-06: 59

2001-02: 50

2003-04: 50

1998-99: 47

2004-05: 47

1994-95: 45

2002-03: 44

1992-93: 43

1999-00: 42

1975-76: 41

1991-92: 40

1987-88: 37

2007-08: 37

1973-74: 30

1974-75: 26

1989-90: 26

1997-98: 25

2006-07: 21

1988-89: 20

All 3 winter months have contained a notable cold spell. It has been a long winter. The winters of the 1980s had the intensity but the cold was not distributed evenly across the winter months. The winters of the mid 80s had the cold concentrated in January and February but virtually devoid in December.

Just shows what a colder winter this has been,and if we go back to the end of october longest coldest snowy spell I`ve seen in october, it has been a very persistant spell evened out.

Nothing very mild at all.

Just shows how very poor the late 80`s was coming in the bottom 10.

Edited by Snowyowl9
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Posted
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
  • Location: Harborne, Bham 187m asl
Manchester Winter Index ranked from highest to lowest value

All 3 winter months have contained a notable cold spell. It has been a long winter. The winters of the 1980s had the intensity but the cold was not distributed evenly across the winter months. The winters of the mid 80s had the cold concentrated in January and February but virtually devoid in December.

The winter 1981-82 was very cold generally from December into mid January but mid January to mid February was very mild.

With the exception of 1962-63, the winters of the 1960s were not especially cold overall, there were cold individual months but the whole package were not spectacularly cold and this point can be seen with this stats question.

Which decade had the most winters having a CET of 3.0 and lower? The 1960s or the 1990s?

Answer: 1990s with 2, 1960s had 1

Not technically winter but we cant forget the snowfall that occurred in October especially. If it snows in March and April, would that mean it has been the longest period (October- April) in which snowfall has occurred for quite some time??

Which other years has seen snow in October and then also in April in the following year?

Regards, hgb

this winter has delivered the goods, but i dont think it will ever stand out as a exceptional winter. by modern standards, we have done very well. no persistant icelandic trough or heights to our south, and the models always had tantalizingly good charts. what i will say it is more seasonal than memorable, down to the fact we have had long, dry, cold spells with low daytime minima, and plenty of frost, and some fog. we had a snow event in early january, with 3cms lying snow and early february obviously gave a good week or just over of lying snow, but no consistent lying snow. all i can say is, hopefully this is a sign of things to come. i hope the modern curse has been broken. last years winter was horrifically poor, with the only snow coming in april, and a prevalance of the ol 'icelandic low and azores high, with a few two day topplers, which never really amounted to much. i say let the seasons be seasonal. :unsure:

Don't forget the October snow and we also has some around Nov 23rd.

As for last year's winter, my recent records suggest that we had snow also on 18th Nov 2007 and also I think in March (Easter time) then in April 2008 so a pretty poor winter (in its technical terms)

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Posted
  • Location: Irlam
  • Location: Irlam
Which other years has seen snow in October and then also in April in the following year?

Regards, hgb

Not many, there was lying snow in October 1934 and lying snow in the middle of May 1935 but it was a very mild winter in between.

The difference this time is that there has been lying snow somewhere at low levels across England during October, November, December, January and February.

It is a possibilty there could be lying snow in March and April as well.

That would be very, very unusual especially since 1900

Edited by Mr_Data
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