Catlin Artic Survey

[mettalfabrik]

had not heard about this could be interesting for the ice watchers out there!

http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/

[Mondy]

Even better read here ....

Comments pretty much sum up this trip by "scientists"

I am sitting at my desk here in the wilderness of Alaska where we have lived for 30 years. No one for hundreds of miles around us. I skied from the front door yesterday and went 10 miles up our valley breaking through at least two feet of snow. Seems late to have this much snow and ice. I guess we caused GW with our wood fires this winter and caused more precip and colder temps. It went to minus 65F here this winter for three weeks along with the normal minus 40's and 30's. We are all fine. I notice the pictures of this group with their zippers down, their fur ruffs back and wonder at their ignorance of arctic living. There are proper ways to survive and there are proper ways to do science. I think they failed at both.

...another Greenie, enviro-Nazi crusade hits the buffers all in the name of trying to prove "AGW".

It's all so tiresome now. Just amazed people keep banging on about a warming world.

PS, this is quite good too........are you reading, Gray Wolf et al All gone a bit quiet on the CC threads!

[laserguy]

May the Good Lawd save us from the warmers. Hope they learn before it's too late for all of us. Gone real quiet on the CC threads DXR - a pregnant pause in anticipation of what comes next. They're probably huddled in a room somewhere,dreaming up the latest crop of fictitious nonsense disguised as fact.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/08/pola...outh/#more-6868

[LadyPakal]

It's all a bit of a farse really - faked 'live' biometrics on the website & their recording equipment isn't actually working. It seems just about the only data they've been able to collect is from boring holes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7991801.stm

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/08/catl...telemetry-data/

From the end of the BBC article:

'The drillings have revealed a typical ice thickness of between 1.5 - 2 metres which is far thinner than a previous generation of explorers encountered.'

Who were the 'previous generation of explorers'? Did they also auger the ice as they treked across it or were they more interested in just getting to the pole and back in one piece? Curious minds and all that....

[Essan]

In my country we used to applaud scientific endeavour. If someone went off in -50c temps to find out some data that could be of use to future generations and help us better understand our world they were heroes.

Now they just get slagged off, derided, ridiculed and abused.

How religious fundamentalism has changed my country

Who were the 'previous generation of explorers'? Did they also auger the ice as they treked across it or were they more interested in just getting to the pole and back in one piece? Curious minds and all that....

I would guess that quite a few expeditions tested ice depth - until recently most Arctic, Antarctic and Himalayan expeditions had a scientific element to them. Indeed in some cases the science was more important than the more 'popular' goal.

Once upon a time people didn't go to the North Pole just to appear in Hello Magazine

[Mondy]

How religious fundamentalism has changed my country

Indeed. The AGW/CC doomsayers have a lot to answer for

[LadyPakal]

In my country we used to applaud scientific endeavour. If someone went off in -50c temps to find out some data that could be of use to future generations and help us better understand our world they were heroes.

Now they just get slagged off, derided, ridiculed and abused.

How religious fundamentalism has changed my country

I would guess that quite a few expeditions tested ice depth - until recently most Arctic, Antarctic and Himalayan expeditions had a scientific element to them. Indeed in some cases the science was more important than the more 'popular' goal.

Once upon a time people didn't go to the North Pole just to appear in Hello Magazine

Who's slagging them off - not me. I have serious concerns about their safety and doubts as to the validity of the whole exercise.

I do doubt this expedition set off without knowing exactly what their results would be - from their website:

'Its data will be used to improve the accuracy and reliability of supercomputer models forecasting the timing of the disappearance of the sea ice'

No doubts there - their models say it will melt, they are expecting this data to say when. Not a scientific mindset really where you are supposed to go in with no expectations but maybe some theories - and what are they going to compare it too? From their website again:

'Such a surface Survey has never before been attempted'

Ice changes thickness on a day to day basis & is constantly moving about (as they are finding when they wake up 15km further away from the pole than when they went to bed). How can they expect to compare like with like, especially when they have nothing to compare it to anyway? Modern day recordings will be using GPS for positioning but as we see, the same hole in the ice may be miles away from where it was 24 hours ago. How can they compare it to data from previous generations of explorers when those explorers will have been in the same situation possibly without access to anything but the sun and a compass for positioning (tricky stuff when so far north)?

I'm sure the people out there on the ice believe in what they are doing but considering when they set off, especially when you think about how long they estimate it will take, and the fact that Pen the explorer has had been rescued from the North Pole in Mid May before now, it all looks like a publicity stunt to me. I also think they are finding it a bit colder than they were expecting and they don't seem terribly well prepared with their sleeping bags etc. Frostbite & hypothermia seems to have set in quite early on from what I can see from their blog entries.

Once upon a time people didn't go to the North Pole just to appear in Hello Magazine

True. Now they do. They also canoe there.

[Mondy]

Ice changes thickness on a day to day basis & is constantly moving about

But, my dear Lady, try telling that to the Ice Guru on here....I give you Gray Wolf. He'd have you think the NW passage was open for shipping on a Mon, Tues and Friday

[LadyPakal]

I was going to put this in my previous post but here will do:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...ves-539163.html

DXR - I'm afraid I don't see what the above mentioned poster posts - I love the block posts feature. There is only so many times you can read the same thing over and over..

[Essan]

Who's slagging them off - not me. I have serious concerns about their safety and doubts as to the validity of the whole exercise.

And did you have similar concerns about all the similar expeditions to Arctic and mountain reasons for the past 100 years?

No doubt you'd have campaigned to have had Lord Hunt's Everest expedition go no further than base camp. After all, can't have people putting themselves at risk for scientific reseach - just look what happened to Scott, and nearly befell Shackleton!

They really should ban it. Everyone should stay indoors. And who needs knowledge when our priests can read the stars and tell us all we need to know

[LadyPakal]

Oh don't talk rot. Who's campaigning. Not me - they are all grown ups and if they want to risk their lives, then let them. However, they shouldn't risk other peoples lives and that is what they will do if they get into trouble and need rescuing.

[Essan]

Oh don't talk rot. Who's campaigning. Not me - they are all grown ups and if they want to risk their lives, then let them. However, they shouldn't risk other peoples lives and that is what they will do if they get into trouble and need rescuing.

So you object to all scientific arctic and mountaineering expeditions?

[mettalfabrik]

thought that linky would stir it up abit.and on a different tack i see the patron is old prince big ears himself i recently visited poundbury his model green village ,sticks out like a sore thumb nothing in common with local area looks like a vast collection of mini chalgroves another example of namby pamby enviro politics from an over priviledged dreamer

[Essan]

thought that linky would stir it up abit.and on a different tack i see the patron is old prince big ears himself i recently visited poundbury his model green village ,sticks out like a sore thumb nothing in common with local area looks like a vast collection of mini chalgroves another example of namby pamby enviro politics from an over priviledged dreamer

And the relevance to this scientific endeavour is ....... ? But I guess when there;s nothing else, ad homs will have to do. After all, science must be supressed at all cost. My horoscope said so.

Personally I'm pleased to hear Prince Charles is supporting scientific research, and keeping Britain on the global map, even if it is as risk of being tortured by the Inquistion.

[Mondy]

Fat lot of good talking to trees he did...

Me thinks he's been leaned on to support "the cause"..whatever the cause is

Meanwhile, back to the funny factory, ie Catlin Survey:

Catlin Arctic Survey expedition leader Pen Hadow says that, 37 days into the Project and having drilled into the ice in hundreds of different spots, his observations would seem to support this latest research.

Now, what most don't realise is that this is the first time drilling has started..took them 37 days of pure thick ice meandering about to do this. I seem to recall this was their primary objective. The previous 36 days were obviously spent trying to convey doom stories, even though they almost died trying to do this. All in the name of research, eh?

Research and Pen Haddow don't go

[Essan]

Maybe he's referring this this?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90406132602.htm

(note the charts)

so on the ground research supports satellite data

Although of course we know both were invented by Mickey Mouse and are as reliable as claims the earth is round and orbits the Sun

[Mondy]

Ah, NSIDC, lol - (you did make me laugh out loud actually)

The researchers, who have been tracking Arctic sea ice cover with satellites since 1979, found that the winter of 2008-09 was the fifth lowest maximum ice extent on record. The six lowest maximum events in the satellite record have all occurred in the past six years, according to CU-Boulder researcher Walt Meier of NSIDC.

Since 1979? And we have 5th lowest and 6th lowest already? Jeez, I better prepare...

I'll post this again. Its 1979 to present:

[mettalfabrik]

And the relevance to this scientific endeavour is ....... ? But I guess when there;s nothing else, ad homs will have to do. After all, science must be supressed at all cost. My horoscope said so.

Personally I'm pleased to hear Prince Charles is supporting scientific research, and keeping Britain on the global map, even if it is as risk of being tortured by the Inquistion.

if you care to read my post correctly you will notice i started with 'on a different tack,implying that i had changed the topic therefore there is no relevance ,just a personal view of a hypocrite and social leech no better than a benefits scrounger

your grasp on reality is no better than your grasp of english comprehension, is that 'ad homs, enough for you! i do so detest pompousness especialy of the executive kind!

[Essan]

Your personal views on the heir to the Throne are totally irrelevant to a thread about a group of true Britons putting themselves out, enduring privation, for the sole purpsoe of furthering our understanding of the world around us.

Prince Charles has been patron to many similar endeavours in the past. But no doubt you'd rather we never climbed Everest or discovered the source of the Nile or flew to the Moon because it's a waste of time and money when these people could have been on TV getting drunk, half naked and abusing one another.

I'm afraid I come from a generation when we showed respect to people like those in the Arctic, not the likes of Jade Goody. Oh well, times change I guess. And we're all entitled to our beliefs

[LadyPakal]

So you object to all scientific arctic and mountaineering expeditions?

No, I object to less-than-well-prepared people mounting expeditions - here's an example we hear about every year, the walkers who head off up a mountain in their trainers, with no compass or map & no food, wet weather clothing or survival gear, who then end up having to be found and rescued because they didn't check the weather forecast before they set off.

Just like some NP explorer who set off too late in the season and ended up sitting on a lump of ice waiting to be rescued. The same exlorer now leading this (what looks like to me) less-than-well prepared (or maybe just not too well thought out) group of explorers who, for example, are/were sleeping in totally saturated (and now very heavy) sleeping bags because they decided not to take vapour barrier liners. I don't think they were expecting it to be so cold actually.

http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/Mind_games

http://www.netbackpacking.com/vapor-barrie...ier-liners.html

I do wonder what the carbon cost of this trip is? The fact they have a supply plane dropping by every so often must make it quite expensive, along with all the electronic gear they have - they are even Twittering from the ice - a lack of sunlight means solar charging is probably not a possibility for the smaller stuff.

[mettalfabrik]

Your personal views on the heir to the Throne are totally irrelevant to a thread about a group of true Britons putting themselves out, enduring privation, for the sole purpsoe of furthering our understanding of the world around us.

Prince Charles has been patron to many similar endeavours in the past. But no doubt you'd rather we never climbed Everest or discovered the source of the Nile or flew to the Moon because it's a waste of time and money when these people could have been on TV getting drunk, half naked and abusing one another.

I'm afraid I come from a generation when we showed respect to people like those in the Arctic, not the likes of Jade Goody. Oh well, times change I guess. And we're all entitled to our beliefs

on the contrary i am fervant admirer of people who accomplish these things what ever their motives, as for your rant about true britons and prince charles he was never a patron of any of the things you mention,in fact everest was climbed by a new zealander and a nepalese ,the moon was was visited by americans and the nile well there is alot of debate about that but was finally confirmed by henry stanley morton an american,,i think you,ll find that wales other interests are polo and shooting birds by the thousand ,your opinion of jade goody et al i ,ll grant you that,but your servile suck up to the heir apparent is galling he being from a long line of debauchers ,womenisers, warmongers ,madmen,and murderers,most of them not even true britons your generation(who helped to get us in our present situation) ought read up its history before pontificating from their ivory towers

[laserguy]

I do wonder what the carbon cost of this trip is? The fact they have a supply plane dropping by every so often must make it quite expensive,

Nothing more than a publicity stunt. Everything positive 'up there' being ignored and all focus of attention during more lucid moments being given to anything 'suspect' they may find and then of course,being held up as evidence of mankind's ravaging of the planet. *Sigh*. The great unwashed back home swallow it hook,line and sinker (actually,maybe they don't) before nonchalantly flicking over to watch Big Brother or whatever with a six-pack and pizza close to hand.

Blackdown - I like your style! Personally,whenever Prince Chuck,Big Al or Armaggeddon Hansen put in an appearance anywhere I just turn the other way with much head-shaking,being fully aware of the garbage I am about to be subjected to.

[Essan]

I give up

You kids really have no understanding of what the purpose of the expedition is do you? You don't care about those involved and will invent any little excuse to insult them. And all because you think that the results might one day be used by someone else to show that something you don't want to beleive to be true might be true.

[mettalfabrik]

i have an understanding of what the expedition is about thats why i posted the link

as for kids -i am nearly as old as betty,s boy

as for results lets see what they come up with i want to see them!

and i hope they clean up before they depart

bryan

NOT an executive manager

[Devonian]

No, I object to less-than-well-prepared people mounting expeditions - here's an example we hear about every year, the walkers who head off up a mountain in their trainers, with no compass or map & no food, wet weather clothing or survival gear, who then end up having to be found and rescued because they didn't check the weather forecast before they set off.

And I object to people reading stories on 'watts up with that' that have a deliberate drip drip of derision for these explorers aimed to discredit the expedition and then posting that here as if it's the truth.

The truth is the expedition is well equipped and doing just fine.

Just like some NP explorer who set off too late in the season and ended up sitting on a lump of ice waiting to be rescued. The same exlorer now leading this (what looks like to me) less-than-well prepared (or maybe just not too well thought out) group of explorers who, for example, are/were sleeping in totally saturated (and now very heavy) sleeping bags because they decided not to take vapour barrier liners. I don't think they were expecting it to be so cold actually.

Again, they're doing just fine. Again, don't believe what you read on WUWT!

I do wonder what the carbon cost of this trip is? The fact they have a supply plane dropping by every so often must make it quite expensive, along with all the electronic gear they have - they are even Twittering from the ice - a lack of sunlight means solar charging is probably not a possibility for the smaller stuff.

But, you're not concerned about carbon dioxide emissions because you don't think they cause climate change? Or are you? It's one or the other unless you're just making a convenient attack?