Catlin Artic Survey

[Essan]

NOT an executive manager

Do I detect a hint of bitterness that I co-own and run a rival website yet still have the audacity to post on my friend Paul's forum?

As for cleaning up before they depart - I'm sure they do so every morning before striking camp If they didn't I'd be the first to complain. If you can carry it in full, you can carry it out empty.

[laserguy]

I give up

You kids really have no understanding of what the purpose of the expedition is do you?

Excellent idea - hope more follow your lead! And I ain't a kid,unless pushing half a century old qualifies one as such!

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

The biotelemetry data is NOT live. Apparently it hasn't been for some time (if ever) and the data on the Catlin site is representative. The Catlin site has finally been updated with a note at the bottom of the page saying this.

Nor apparently is the climate data live.

The videos of the Catlin expedition also raise questions since they show no breath vapour and in one, also available on the BBC, a researcher is apparently standing outside in the -30 Celsius Arctic night in what looks like a waterproof anorak, without gloves and facial protection. There is speculation they could have made the videos on a beach prior to flying out.

You know, if they are faking part of the expedition for PR purposes perhaps they should tell us rather than treat the audience like little children.

Nobody's doubting the expedition is actually going ahead. Yet.

Edited April 10, 2009 by AtlanticFlamethrower

[mettalfabrik]

NO Bitterness here,your need to put it there says everything,and i really dont care who your friend is,as for your website thats a good site which i do visit ,i do hope your operation has small carbon footprint and all that lovely merchandise hope thats all eco friendly-but i decline to send my hard earned cash to a tax haven

[Devonian]

The biotelemetry data is NOT live. Apparently it hasn't been for some time (if ever) and the data on the Catlin site is representative. The Catlin site has finally been updated with a note at the bottom of the page saying this.

Nor apparently is the climate data live.

The videos of the Catlin expedition also raise questions since they show no breath vapour and in one, also available on the BBC, a researcher is apparently standing outside in the -30 Celsius Arctic night in what looks like a waterproof anorak, without gloves and facial protection. There is speculation they could have made the videos on a beach prior to flying out.

You know, if they are faking part of the expedition for PR purposes perhaps they should tell us rather than treat the audience like little children.

Nobody's doubting the expedition is actually going ahead. Yet.

Crikey, what a load of old conspiracy theory. Really, I dunno :o

I tell you one thing, if anyone is treating anyone like children it's those busily going around spreading myths about this expedition. Faking? Get a grip man!

Edited April 10, 2009 by Devonian

[Mondy]

Crikey, what a load of old conspiracy theory. Really, I dunno :o

I tell you one thing, if anyone is treating anyone like children it's those busily going around spreading myths about this expedition. Faking? Get a grip man!

For the avoidance of doubt, I have no problem in posting WUWT links. I'm sorry you do, but that's tough, that's life.

Here's another one for you - check out the updates at the bottom of the main post.

Meanwhile, it would appear AFT is not the only one suggesting the fake theory

[Essan]

The biotelemetry data is NOT live. Apparently it hasn't been for some time (if ever) and the data on the Catlin site is representative. The Catlin site has finally been updated with a note at the bottom of the page saying this.

Nor apparently is the climate data live.

The videos of the Catlin expedition also raise questions since they show no breath vapour and in one, also available on the BBC, a researcher is apparently standing outside in the -30 Celsius Arctic night in what looks like a waterproof anorak, without gloves and facial protection. There is speculation they could have made the videos on a beach prior to flying out.

You know, if they are faking part of the expedition for PR purposes perhaps they should tell us rather than treat the audience like little children.

Nobody's doubting the expedition is actually going ahead. Yet.

Maybe it's all being run by the same people who faked the Moon Landings :lol: :o

Really, just because Wattsy wants to discredit the expedition because he's frightened of what it might discover, doesn't mean you all have to fall for the daft conspiracy theories :lol:

They're not faking anything - Wattsy want you to think they are - I wonder why? (the biometric data was never advertised as being live - Wattsy made that idea up)

NO Bitterness here,your need to put it there says everything,and i really dont care who your friend is,as for your website thats a good site which i do visit ,i do hope your operation has small carbon footprint and all that lovely merchandise hope thats all eco friendly-but i decline to send my hard earned cash to a tax haven

Well I run an antique centre, so I guess it is all eco friendly since it's all "recycled". Never heard of Evesham being called a tax haven before though!

[Mondy]

Why do the AGW-ers treat WUWT with such disdain? Is it because they realise their precious thoughts are now being ripped to shreds, and they will swoop to new lows to discredit a very interesting and informative blog? Perhaps an element of "the truth hurts".

People such as Anthony Watts deserve medals for "outing" all AGW scare tactics. :o

[pottyprof]

For the avoidance of doubt, I have no problem in posting WUWT links. I'm sorry you do, but that's tough, that's life.

Here's another one for you - check out the updates at the bottom of the main post.

Meanwhile, it would appear AFT is not the only one suggesting the fake theory

Curious isn't it?

[LadyPakal]

But, you're not concerned about carbon dioxide emissions because you don't think they cause climate change? Or are you? It's one or the other unless you're just making a convenient attack?

No - the thing is, there are people who seem to want to tell us how to live but do the opposite themselves. We have to buckle down and watch practically every breath we exhale while they jet around the world living the high life.

Do as we say, not as we do. I'm not a fan of that sort of hypocrisy & I'm just wondering how much they are standing by their beliefs.

[Essan]

No - the thing is, there are people who seem to want to tell us how to live but do the opposite themselves. We have to buckle down and watch practically every breath we exhale while they jet around the world living the high life.

Do as we say, not as we do. I'm not a fan of that sort of hypocrisy & I'm just wondering how much they are standing by their beliefs.

Those on this expedition are trying to acquire scientific data. And I hardly think they're living the high life in a tent at -50c.

Maybe your anger would be better directed at the likes of Brown and Gore? :o

(although I get the impression you're one of those who objects to the cost of your energy bill but objects even more when someone suggests turning the lights off at night!)

[Mondy]

This says it all. A comment (quoted here) near the end of WUWT:

I went to the Catlin web site and read through their planning and they were to leave February 22, 2009 to be dropped off at the starting point. It was so far according to the plans that a “floating ice base” was established to refuel the Twin Otter on it’s path back to Resolute. Apparently the range of a Twin Otter is too small so they were to need manned refueling stations.

This brings up even more questions. Well now how are those folks at the two floating ice bases doing? The pictures just show a tent but no fuel drums or extra provisions to just sit there on the ice waiting for the plane to fly by. How can they land on the ice in the dark? This whole story seems “cooked up” to me and some internet web page expert pieced it together without consultation with a real logistics manager with arctic experience.

This is getting more far fetched the deeper I did into it.

Now lets see what we have here as to unanswered questions in addition to the faulty bio data. 1. odd video with things that should be there like breath vapor and things that shouldn’t be there like rocks at 1000 km onto the ice where there shouldn’t be 2. planes that would have to land in the dark on the ice 3. refueling floating forward bases 4. prior failures of this guy Hadow. 5. Sat photos showing lots of open cracks in their paths.

I’m sure I’m forgetting something but this whole trip is starting to look like it’s not happening in real time just like the bio data.

REPLY: In almost any endeavor, you can look at things after the fact with a skeptical eye and find inconsistencies. Let’s stick with what we can prove, like the bio data being presented as live when it was not. - Anthony

Btw the video is here

Those on this expedition are trying to acquire scientific data. And I hardly think they're living the high life in a tent at -50c.

Trying to acquire scientific data indeed...with a strapped hand warmer to measure temperature.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com...w=509&h=237

Yeah, right!

Edited April 10, 2009 by Delta X-Ray

[Essan]

Why do the AGW-ers treat WUWT with such disdain? Is it because they realise their precious thoughts are now being ripped to shreds, and they will swoop to new lows to discredit a very interesting and informative blog? Perhaps an element of "the truth hurts".

People such as Anthony Watts deserve medals for "outing" all AGW scare tactics. :o

Hmmm, I'm sure some say the same of David Icke .......

[Mondy]

Hmmm, I'm sure some say the same of David Icke .......

I thought you had given up because we kiddies were ruining the party! :o

Appears old Pen isn't once bitten twice shy.

Does Pen still run Polar Expeditions? If so, think of all that *CO2 offset the tourist planes will be emitting as they land in the Arctic tundra..

* In the belief you actually think CO2 is a main driver of Climate Change, LOL - and if you do believe - show me or anyone else questioning that CO2 is a major cause...don't just say it, show it

Edited April 10, 2009 by Delta X-Ray

[Essan]

The question I also have to ask is why is an American blogger like Wattsy so obsessed with a small British scientific expedition? Hmmm, doesn't like us getting one over the almighty America perhaps? Or maybe bullying the little guy is easier and he's frightened of NASA?

It will, of course, be interesting to see how the results of this plucky little British team compares with the satellite data from NASA

(Why so-called Britons are attacking their own countrymen in such manner beats me. But sadly symptomatic of the modern age. )

[Mondy]

Hmmm, I'm sure some say the same of David Icke .......

PS, you didn't quite answer the direct question..

[Essan]

Does Pen still run Polar Expeditions? If so, think of all that *CO2 offset the tourist planes will be emitting as they land in the Arctic tundra..

And the relevance is? Oh, absolutely none ........

Or are you saying scientific research should only be carried out by men in sackcloth shirts ....... actually, don't answer that.

You might as well argue that someone at the cutting edge of genetic research is discredited because he has a pet dog!

Please tell me why are you so strongly opposed to Britons carrying out scientific research in trying conditions?

We should be proud of these guys!

edit: obviously I know the answer: Guru Watts has told you and Guru Watts cannot be wrong and Guru Watts must be obeyed

You really should try to think for yourselves. You're no better than those who accept all the IPCC say :o

Edited April 10, 2009 by Essan

[Mondy]

The question I also have to ask is why is an American blogger like Wattsy so obsessed with a small British scientific expedition? Hmmm, doesn't like us getting one over the almighty America perhaps? Or maybe bullying the little guy is easier and he's frightened of NASA?

It will, of course, be interesting to see how the results of this plucky little British team compares with the satellite data from NASA

(Why so-called Britons are attacking their own countrymen in such manner beats me. But sadly symptomatic of the modern age. )

That's utter rubbish and you know it. "Wattsy" is showing the world for what the AGW crowd really are.

Let me get this straight. One posted topic on his blog about a small expedition to the Arctic for scientific purposes shouldn't be shown? Watts has rattled you guys no end. Now all you can say is it's an example of USA v Britain bully boy tactics. What nonsense.

So called Britons are not attacking their fellow countrymen. They are becoming more aware of the fraud which is AGW and what comes with it, and are now beginning to wonder just how people can still believe such claptrap..therefore they question/reply, not attack.

[Red Raven]

Trying to acquire scientific data indeed...with a strapped hand warmer to measure temperature.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com...w=509&h=237

Yeah, right!

Do you really think they would post such an image on their own official site if it had actually been of a piece of equipment fixed to produce false data. If this is a piece of falsifying equipment then do you not see the irony? If they are so stupid to post the evidence very clearly on their own site then surly they are not intelligent enough to even understand what conspiracy means - give us a break.

Also I think you will find if a hand warmer is strapped to a thermometer as is suggested by Watsy then the temperatures would be a little obviously warm. -40 to at least plus 30 - this really is a very silly discussion. :lol:

[Mondy]

http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/technology_seacat

They call it seacat.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Delta X-Ray

[Essan]

That's utter rubbish and you know it. "Wattsy" is showing the world for what the AGW crowd really are.

No, he's attacking the scientific world and provoking the ire of us sceptics in the process.

Why are you so convinced he's absolutely right and everyone else is wrong?

I wonder how long before he annouces the world was created in 4004BC ...... Because IMO he's on a par with such people. And I speak as one who is an outspoken critic of the IPCC, Hansen and Gore :lol:

[Red Raven]

http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/technology_seacat

They call it seacat.

There's always an alternative interpretation and one should never jump to assumptions based on limited evidence. Anyone wanting truth must keep an open mind.

A hand warmer, by its nature, retains heat for as long as possible. That ability is due to its thermal conductivity properties - the same properties that will retain cold as it does heat. Is this rather Heath Robinson arrangement simply to allow the temperature measured at depth to be retained as it is pulled up into daylight. A better, less cynical view of its purpose is merely something to aid more accurate temperature readings.

I see no conspiracy or fraud. I do see on Watts blog someone blinded by cynicism.

[Mondy]

You certainly have confused me Essan. I always had you down as an AGW'er :lol:

Edited April 10, 2009 by Delta X-Ray

[AtlanticFlamethrower]

Crikey, what a load of old conspiracy theory. Really, I dunno :lol:

I tell you one thing, if anyone is treating anyone like children it's those busily going around spreading myths about this expedition. Faking? Get a grip man!

Which bit are you referring too?

What I said about the biotelemetry data has already been admitted by the Catlin expedition.

I've speculated how far the fakery goes... but have not said it's all fake. There's a conspiracy theory there if you want it for fun and giggles, though.

[Essan]

You certainly have confused me Essan. I always had you down as an AGW'er :lol:

I'm a sciencer. I believe in the science. I just don't believe in some peoples interpretation of the science

And my point in this thread is that its the sciencific data that matters - not how it may be used/misused by others.

I'm quite sure Arctic sea ice is less thick than it used to be last century. But there's a lot more of it than there was 8,000 years ago. I leave it to others to draw their conclusions from that But I support efforts to find out the current situation. Especially when it's Britons doing something daft/courageous to obtain that data.

And I dont believe in conspiracies and I don't take my lead from internet blogs

Edit: I also believe in AGW/ACC, but I'm more of the Roger Pielke Sr line of thought - humans affect climate and CO2 maybe a factor but it's not the one we should be worrying about.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Essan