Political Involvement With Agw / Gw / Climate Change

[Methuselah]

"Otoh, it's a standard mantra that 'warmers' are all leftie/commie/grenie na*is or similar nonsnese so you should be careful about what stones you cast "

Perhaps that's due to the reliance on state funding and full-blown support of the BBC?

Are you suggesting that, once the Tories return to power, the warmers will suddenly all become raving fascists? No. I thought not! :lol:

I'd rather the scientists relied on State funding than had to go cap-in-hand to the energy conglomerates...Like they'd hand-over their data for public assessment! :lol:

[rob48]

"Are you suggesting that, once the Tories return to power, the warmers will suddenly all become raving fascists?"

No.

"...Like they'd hand-over their data for public assessment!"

No change there then.

[osmposm]

Far Right or Far Left - does it really matter? There are 'extremists' on all sides of every divide...

..and one of the ironies of world politics is that, by some definitions anyway, extreme left & extreme right attitudes tend to meet somewhere round the back anyway - National Socialism, anyone?

[Methuselah]

..and one of the ironies of world politics is that, by some definitions anyway, extreme left & extreme right attitudes tend to meet somewhere round the back anyway - National Socialism, anyone?

Absolutely! And now Griffin's NSDAP (sorry, BNP) are allying themselves with whatever populist 'movements' that they can lay their grubby little hands on...

IMO, history has many a precedent for the way extremist ideologues fear (and thus treat) science and intellectuals: Lysenkoism in the CCCP, McArthyism (sp?) in the US, and Hitlerism in Nazi Germany??

What starts with empty-headed tirades against all (non-AGW sceptical) climate scientists, will put us all in danger, IMO? I, and many others, have lost relatives because a rabid nutjob gained power - through 'democracy'!!!

Maybe, this time, evil can be stopped - using democracy??? :unsure:

[laserguy]

It isn't just a scientific issue though. There are other aspects to this whole issue, including political and moral and goodness-knows-who using it to gain personal advantage.

I don't agree with Nick Griffin that there are attempts to form a New World Order out of it,though, although I am aware that some people think that this is the case.

I agree with many of the points made by Nick Griffin in the first part of his speech.

On the BBC News the other day was Martin (?) Shukman (sp?). He said that the reason that sceptics were sceptical was because they all wanted a reason to carry on driving their SUVs. I happen to know that he is wrong, because I am a sceptic..........I am sceptical that GW is man-made but am very careful to keep my use of fossil fuels to a extremely low (mind-bogglingly low, actually) level and to reduce waste, re-use and recycle wherever I can.

Similarly, as a sceptic, Gordon Brown's ( ) words....."behind-the-times, anti-science, flat-earth climate sceptics" must also apply to me. I like to think that I am ahead of my time, in that I have doubted that global warming is/was man-made for quite a few years and it is only more recently that sceptical scientists have been brave enough to speak out. Goodness knows I have had some flak here for my views. Nor am I anti-science.....that was just a ridiculous accusation for him to make....surely we are all thankful for the scientific work which has lead to such things as the elimination of many deadly diseases amongst many other things. Also, I am aware that the Earth is not flat, unless all of the photographic evidence that I have seen in my 53 years has been faked.

As for that Millipede thing ( )....well, according to him, I behave in a dangerous and deceitful manner. Dangerous, me? That's a laugh....I wouldn't say "boo" to a goose. As for deceitful....well, I have to say that honesty, integrity and a desire for fairness and justice are the very essence of me, although as this is an internet forum, my word would have to be taken on this.

I think that Shukman, Brown and Millipede's comments say more about Shukman, Brown and Millipede than they do about the people at whom they are making these ridiculous and desperate accusations.

Now, as always, I hope I have not offended anyone...... I have taken time over this post and have chosen my words as carefully as possible so as not to give offence!

Except to Gordon Brown ( ) who is a complete and utter &*^%$* who has ruined my once beautiful Country and who ought to go and &%*$ himself with a ^(%%&$ big stick.

Thank you.

Very good,Noggin! Many is the time when I've pondered just who the politicians are addressing when they say we must do this and must do that. Do they mean me? I am comfortable in the knowledge that I lead a far 'greener' life that even the most fervent purveyors of such a lifestyle. That's partly down to a personal desire to eke out my meagre income in this now ruined country,and partly down to the mentality I possess anyway. The family is out,and I'm alone without a lit bulb (they're all eco-friendly ones,have been for years),all the heating is off so I'm wearing a thick sweater. I feel the cold more quickly in my advancing years y'know! I recycle everything and 'waste' is a very dirty word. I'm on early shift this week,which means I'll be leaving the house at 4.30am to walk to work,while our ageing(though well-maintained,small car stays at home). So when G.Brown or whoever starts spouting about wicked,wasteful ways,what further am I supposed to do? Nothing really - I guess I'm exempt! If everyone in the country,nay the developed world were to follow my example whether through choice or not,what changes would we expect to see in global climate,and how would we know that the changes were a result of our new-found green ways? Answer - we would not,though some folk may fancy otherwise. I have absolutely nothing to gain by denying/rejecting AGW (a point I strive,but consistently fail to make),but do so for no other reason that it is utterly wrong. Let's go ahead and save the planet (or the inhabitants of it),but move on and leave out the preposterous CO2 driven climate apocalypse and address the real matters at hand. The money wasted on 'AGW research' alone so far,could have 'saved the world' several times over if used wisely,I'm sure! Now if Al Gore was to sign up for a three bed council semi and turn over all his ill-gotten gains to sustainability projects I might just turn an ear in the alarmist's direction,but don't bank on it.

[pottyprof]

Now if Al Gore was to sign up for a three bed council semi and turn over all his ill-gotten gains to sustainability projects I might just turn an ear in the alarmist's direction,but don't bank on it.

Now there's an interesting idea...

[noggin]

Far Right or Far Left - does it really matter? There are 'extremists' on all sides of every divide...

................................

Left and Right both, I hope!

I was asking for clarification, Pete, as I wanted to be sure which "side" rob48 was referring to before I said any more, as I wanted to be sure before I said anything else. I like to have facts/confirmation first.

My response would have made reference to the fact that there are, indeed, extremists on all sides of every divide. Having said that though, there is also a lot of common ground. I am sure that both the warmists and the sceptics want similar things e.g.a cleaner and less polluted world, a plentiful supply of renewable energy, a chance for all people to have a decent quality of life and so on and so forth. 'Tis a shame that both "sides" can't work together.

Still, I do my bit.......can't do any more than that.

[noggin]

Many is the time when I've pondered just who the politicians are addressing when they say we must do this and must do that. Do they mean me? I am comfortable in the knowledge that I lead a far 'greener' life that even the most fervent purveyors of such a lifestyle.

Same here, laserguy. I can't really add anything to what you have said....we live the same way that you do.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I have absolutely nothing to gain by denying/rejecting AGW (a point I strive,but consistently fail to make),but do so for no other reason that it is utterly wrong. Let's go ahead and save the planet (or the inhabitants of it),but move on and leave out the preposterous CO2 driven climate apocalypse and address the real matters at hand. The money wasted on 'AGW research' alone so far,could have 'saved the world' several times over if used wisely,I'm sure! Now if Al Gore was to sign up for a three bed council semi and turn over all his ill-gotten gains to sustainability projects I might just turn an ear in the alarmist's direction,but don't bank on it.

So, if you have nothing to gain by denying/rejecting AGW, why are you so uber-defensive of the notion that AGW is a myth, without presenting evidence other than Ad Hominem attacks, straw men, and "I told you so"/"I said so", and so condescending towards anyone who happens to believe in any probability that it might exist?

I can fully sympathise with the notion that the politicians are saying it's all up to us to change and that sticks are necessary and that we might just get a carrot or two if we're very lucky. But that says a lot about politics, and not a lot about AGW. There are slight inklings from this that one line of reasoning could be "I don't like being taxed, Governments are using AGW as an excuse to increase tax so therefore AGW is a myth", but that line of reasoning contains holes a mile wide.

[Devonian]

Very good,Noggin! Many is the time when I've pondered just who the politicians are addressing when they say we must do this and must do that. Do they mean me? I am comfortable in the knowledge that I lead a far 'greener' life that even the most fervent purveyors of such a lifestyle. That's partly down to a personal desire to eke out my meagre income in this now ruined country,and partly down to the mentality I possess anyway. The family is out,and I'm alone without a lit bulb (they're all eco-friendly ones,have been for years),all the heating is off so I'm wearing a thick sweater. I feel the cold more quickly in my advancing years y'know! I recycle everything and 'waste' is a very dirty word. I'm on early shift this week,which means I'll be leaving the house at 4.30am to walk to work,while our ageing(though well-maintained,small car stays at home). So when G.Brown or whoever starts spouting about wicked,wasteful ways,what further am I supposed to do? Nothing really - I guess I'm exempt! If everyone in the country,nay the developed world were to follow my example whether through choice or not,what changes would we expect to see in global climate,and how would we know that the changes were a result of our new-found green ways? Answer - we would not,though some folk may fancy otherwise. I have absolutely nothing to gain by denying/rejecting AGW (a point I strive,but consistently fail to make),but do so for no other reason that it is

I'm with you up to here, our lives are somewhat similar. I can't do much more either.

utterly wrong.

But this is, with respect, just yah boo. We can all go around claiming we're right: 'I'm right - so there!'. Gets us nowhere.

Now, if you said 'I'm right because this part of the science is wrong because of etc etc', I'd take much more notice.

Let's go ahead and save the planet (or the inhabitants of it),but move on and leave out the preposterous CO2 driven climate apocalypse and address the real matters at hand. The money wasted on 'AGW research' alone so far,could have 'saved the world' several times over if used wisely,I'm sure! Now if Al Gore was to sign up for a three bed council semi and turn over all his ill-gotten gains to sustainability projects I might just turn an ear in the alarmist's direction,but don't bank on it.

Is he fat as well?

Edited December 6, 2009 by Devonian

[Methuselah]

I was asking for clarification, Pete, as I wanted to be sure which "side" rob48 was referring to before I said any more, as I wanted to be sure before I said anything else. I like to have facts/confirmation first.

My response would have made reference to the fact that there are, indeed, extremists on all sides of every divide. Having said that though, there is also a lot of common ground. I am sure that both the warmists and the sceptics want similar things e.g.a cleaner and less polluted world, a plentiful supply of renewable energy, a chance for all people to have a decent quality of life and so on and so forth. 'Tis a shame that both "sides" can't work together.

Still, I do my bit.......can't do any more than that.

I'm absolutely with you, Val - we should all be able to work together. Because, whatever the emphasis, we should all be looking for sustainable sources of energy?? I don't think that the present obsession with C0₂ is right...But, like it or not (and I know that you agree with this) fossil fuels will eventually run out...

[rob48]

@noggin: Yes, the hardcore left.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5601393/what-happens-when-you-try-to-debate-climate-change.thtml

Apparently, Bob Ward is a climate change/global warming advocate.

More incredibly, he's involved in "communicatons".

Perhaps he's trying to communicate with Neanderthals.

The bit I liked most was when he told us that we should "shut up".

There's nothing like humility, and neither was that.