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Economic Growth And Climate Change


Devonian

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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

I remember watching

. Economic growth can't go on for ever - it's simply not mathematically possible.

Reading this report on growth and climate change reminded me of that. interestingly those who critique the report seem to think the impossible is possible...

So, do people think economic growth can carry on for ever? What will be the climate consequences of unlimited economic growth?

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

The world's resources are finite- we do not have a finite supply of fossil fuels, pollution is causing no end of trouble, and the climate system's ability to factor out anthropogenic inputs is limited as well (hence AGW). Infinite economic growth is not sustainable, and if we keep buying our way out of trouble we'll merely end up with a much more severe dollop of it later on. If AGW doesn't get us, peak oil and the like will.

First we've had simple survival and self-sufficiency at a low level, and then we've had the free market capitalism movement which has helped generate vast economic growth and enabled many of us to lead wealthier lives, but in a decidedly non-sustainable way. So I think we now need to move towards a third way of progressing, aimed at sustainable development. The overall aim should be to achieve the highest sustainable quality of living, which is much trickier than "maximum economic growth and hopefully the improvements will generate themselves from some people having lots of money".

I also suggest that we need to reconnect with our surrouondings more and see beyond the premise that money is the be-all and end-all. Yes, economic prosperity is a good thing in itself, but there are other factors to take into account. From the love and care offered by communities, to the picturesque views and varied sounds that our wildlife produces, to the appreciation of different types of weather, we have a whole range of things that economics alone fail to take into account. If we take a wider consideration of all factors that contribute significantly to well-being rather than just money, maybe maximising economic growth will start to seem less essential anyway.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

Maybe another way to 'get it' is to look at Horse power (H.P.) .How many slaves equal a horse? how many slaves pull your motor along (once oil has gone or we decide we'd better clean up our act).

How many 'slaves' run the turbines that bring you your 'leccy?

How many sails bring you your ship brought produce?

How many G.G.'s pull your summer holiday flight off the ground? How many slave's does it take to pump your water to your tap?

S'gunna be a funny world pretty soon.....

Edited by Gray-Wolf
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Posted
  • Location: Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine and 15-25c
  • Location: Edmonton Alberta(via Chelmsford, Exeter & Calgary)

depends on what you mean by economic growth??..dont forget the economies of the world are forever changing and evolving..i would not expect the world to be as reliant on fossil fuels in 50 years time as today..technology moves on and the way we develop power will change..and this will create new sectors for economic growth..it is the way it has always been.

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Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

Economics is not just the study of monetary nor fiscal policy as some would like to have it.

Whilst it is true to say, that for the majority this is exactly what it means, economics is the study of people's behaviour such that it encompasses the production of goods and services, the distribution of such things with the final corollary of the consumption of the same. Feeding the third-world, therefore, falls directly under the auspices of an economic problem (with far reaching human consequences)

I suspect the question is regarding the consumption part. ie can we can continue to expand such that we can continue to consume?

One answer: more humans means more consumption. It is evident that we, as human beings, find it increasingly difficult to change our behaviour. Indeed, if it were not so, there would be no social science called economics since there would be no uniform behaviour to model.

Edited by VillagePlank
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Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

We await fussion.

If we had unlimited power then we could manufacture from 'ubiquitous materials' the building blocks for all our needs.Be it food or material goods.

Whilst we're stuck looking for what nature has already built for us we will, enevitably, run out of some stuff .Couple that with more folk needing/wanting stuff and you get a mess with the potential for horrid outcomes.

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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

Economics is not just the study of monetary nor fiscal policy as some would like to have it.

Whilst it is true to say, that for the majority this is exactly what it means, economics is the study of people's behaviour such that it encompasses the production of goods and services, the distribution of such things with the final corollary of the consumption of the same. Feeding the third-world, therefore, falls directly under the auspices of an economic problem (with far reaching human consequences)

I suspect the question is regarding the consumption part. ie can we can continue to expand such that we can continue to consume?

One answer: more humans means more consumption. It is evident that we, as human beings, find it increasingly difficult to change our behaviour. Indeed, if it were not so, there would be no social science called economics since there would be no uniform behaviour to model.

I think you're right about what economics is, but is not the question not whether more human means more consumption but whether there is actually more to consume? I'm also quite 'can do' about humanity because, as human beings, we are also an adaptable species that can act with intelligence.

We await fussion.

We always await fusion because, I think, we're not just trying to recreate the Sun but something much more dense and hot. My view is we're as far away from practical fusion power as ever we were - but, thankfully, I'm not one of the experts trying to do produce said.

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Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

I think you're right about what economics is, but is not the question not whether more human means more consumption but whether there is actually more to consume? I'm also quite 'can do' about humanity because, as human beings, we are also an adaptable species that can act with intelligence.

The question, I guess, is both. They're both different ways of looking at the same problem. We're too good at staying alive, now - perhaps, ahem, outside of the evolutionary remit (cold winters no longer kill some of us off, for example)

Unfortunately, whilst being a humanist is a noble pursuit (and one with much honour, and respect) it is, to my mind, in vain. We are an aggressive, angry, violent species the will continue to consume what it is we feel we need. Historical evidence is, unfortunately, demonstrable.

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Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

The question, I guess, is both. They're both different ways of looking at the same problem. We're too good at staying alive, now - perhaps, ahem, outside of the evolutionary remit (cold winters no longer kill some of us off, for example)

Unfortunately, whilst being a humanist is a noble pursuit (and one with much honour, and respect) it is, to my mind, in vain. We are an aggressive, angry, violent species the will continue to consume what it is we feel we need. Historical evidence is, unfortunately, demonstrable.

Agreed.

However this does mean that we (as a species) will do everything to try and grow exponentially, and this will in the end of course lead us to leaving this planet.

Depends on whether this topic is about the short to medium term or long term.

Long term growth will continue, as it always has, perhaps through different means, but it will grow.

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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

The question, I guess, is both. They're both different ways of looking at the same problem. We're too good at staying alive, now - perhaps, ahem, outside of the evolutionary remit (cold winters no longer kill some of us off, for example)

Right, we are outside our niche.

Unfortunately, whilst being a humanist is a noble pursuit (and one with much honour, and respect) it is, to my mind, in vain. We are an aggressive, angry, violent species the will continue to consume what it is we feel we need. Historical evidence is, unfortunately, demonstrable.

Well this is rather OT but...

Japanese knotweed is regarded as a invasive and damaging species - but I suspect (just like numerous other species (rabbits, camels, starlings, rats...) moved about and away from the niches) when it in it's proper place it's no more aggressive than any other species. So, that leave me thinking humanity isn't, per se, an aggressive species, but when we go past our evolved limits of numbers, size of group/clan/tribe we feel the pressure - besides, what about the female sex, they are after all half of us and they don't, by and large, go around fighting wars and generally being pub bores. I wouldn't judge what a gorilla is like from a caged one but from one living where it is meant to be. I also wonder if pre humanity the planet was a less nasty violent place (again not that humans are nasty and violent only that we are when we need to be or are driven to be by being outside our niche) - Earth has been here a long time if it were as violent as now with as many species being under pressure or lost I think the pace of evolution would by faster - dinosaurs were here for millions of years, I can't see us doing that if we go on as we are. But, that is only me musing....

So, getting OT, I do think there is hope for humanity. Not because I'm a humanist but because, we tend to see the reality of things before we go off the cliff. But, sometimes i do wonder if a lot of us want to take our chance with the cliff if the alternative is a life filled with a little less stuff...

Edited by Devonian
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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

While there is a lot of truth in this gloomy perspective on the human race- as a whole humans are not going to think primarily altruistically, whatever policies we follow- I think some aspects of it are too black and white, many issues are being portrayed as falling into the "can't be helped" category when "can't be completely avoided" would be more accurate.

Firstly, how do we measure consumption and growth? In today's world, consumption and growth is measured entirely in terms of money and material possessions, and there appears to be an underlying assumption that it will always be this way and "can't be helped". But it certainly can be helped, because this conception is a social construct, which has changed over time in the past and therefore can surely change again in the future. In the old days, success and growth were measured mainly in terms of family values rather than money and possessions. As it happens, I would hate to see a return to 1950s family values, but on the other hand, a greater recognition and appreciation of social successes in general- like stable loving relationships of any description, like the beauty of wildlife around us, like the ability to enjoy ourselves- would lead us to a more complete, rounded perspective on what success is really about, and less of an obsession with maximum consumption.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that it's possible to be self-centred but crave things other than just money and possessions.

The assumption that humans are self-centred and unwilling to think altruistically is a self-fulfilling prophecy- if we accept that it can't be helped, it won't be. The reality is it's more something that can't be completely avoided. We had the likes of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela who successfully contributed to the overturning of prejudicial values in their countries. We have some societies that care more about waste of resources and care for others than other societies. Many parts of continental Europe are not as obsessed with consumerism and corporatism as the UK and USA. Humans will always be self-seeking to some extent but these are problems that we can reduce the extent of, even though we have to accept that we can't come close to eliminating them entirely.

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Posted
  • Location: South Yorkshire
  • Location: South Yorkshire

Well this is rather OT but...

Japanese knotweed is regarded as a invasive and damaging species - but I suspect (just like numerous other species (rabbits, camels, starlings, rats...) moved about and away from the niches) when it in it's proper place it's no more aggressive than any other species. So, that leave me thinking humanity isn't, per se, an aggressive species, but when we go past our evolved limits of numbers, size of group/clan/tribe we feel the pressure - besides, what about the female sex, they are after all half of us and they don't, by and large, go around fighting wars and generally being pub bores. I wouldn't judge what a gorilla is like from a caged one but from one living where it is meant to be. I also wonder if pre humanity the planet was a less nasty violent place (again not that humans are nasty and violent only that we are when we need to be or are driven to be by being outside our niche) - Earth has been here a long time if it were as violent as now with as many species being under pressure or lost I think the pace of evolution would by faster - dinosaurs were here for millions of years, I can't see us doing that if we go on as we are. But, that is only me musing....

So, getting OT, I do think there is hope for humanity. Not because I'm a humanist but because, we tend to see the reality of things before we go off the cliff. But, sometimes i do wonder if a lot of us want to take our chance with the cliff if the alternative is a life filled with a little less stuff...

AGW/climate change and all that stuff to one side, (I've given up on it and decided to merely spectate!) I just gotta say... I really like that piece Devsmile.gif .

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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

While there is a lot of truth in this gloomy perspective on the human race- as a whole humans are not going to think primarily altruistically, whatever policies we follow- I think some aspects of it are too black and white, many issues are being portrayed as falling into the "can't be helped" category when "can't be completely avoided" would be more accurate.

Firstly, how do we measure consumption and growth? In today's world, consumption and growth is measured entirely in terms of money and material possessions, and there appears to be an underlying assumption that it will always be this way and "can't be helped". But it certainly can be helped, because this conception is a social construct, which has changed over time in the past and therefore can surely change again in the future. In the old days, success and growth were measured mainly in terms of family values rather than money and possessions. As it happens, I would hate to see a return to 1950s family values, but on the other hand, a greater recognition and appreciation of social successes in general- like stable loving relationships of any description, like the beauty of wildlife around us, like the ability to enjoy ourselves- would lead us to a more complete, rounded perspective on what success is really about, and less of an obsession with maximum consumption.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that it's possible to be self-centred but crave things other than just money and possessions.

The assumption that humans are self-centred and unwilling to think altruistically is a self-fulfilling prophecy- if we accept that it can't be helped, it won't be. The reality is it's more something that can't be completely avoided. We had the likes of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela who successfully contributed to the overturning of prejudicial values in their countries. We have some societies that care more about waste of resources and care for others than other societies. Many parts of continental Europe are not as obsessed with consumerism and corporatism as the UK and USA. Humans will always be self-seeking to some extent but these are problems that we can reduce the extent of, even though we have to accept that we can't come close to eliminating them entirely.

Since it's compliment time I'll say that's a post I like. Oh, and I'm not in much disagreement at all with VP either :)

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

Right, we are outside our niche.

Well this is rather OT but...

Japanese knotweed is regarded as a invasive and damaging species - but I suspect (just like numerous other species (rabbits, camels, starlings, rats...) moved about and away from the niches) when it in it's proper place it's no more aggressive than any other species. So, that leave me thinking humanity isn't, per se, an aggressive species, but when we go past our evolved limits of numbers, size of group/clan/tribe we feel the pressure - besides, what about the female sex, they are after all half of us and they don't, by and large, go around fighting wars and generally being pub bores. I wouldn't judge what a gorilla is like from a caged one but from one living where it is meant to be. I also wonder if pre humanity the planet was a less nasty violent place (again not that humans are nasty and violent only that we are when we need to be or are driven to be by being outside our niche) - Earth has been here a long time if it were as violent as now with as many species being under pressure or lost I think the pace of evolution would by faster - dinosaurs were here for millions of years, I can't see us doing that if we go on as we are. But, that is only me musing....

So, getting OT, I do think there is hope for humanity. Not because I'm a humanist but because, we tend to see the reality of things before we go off the cliff. But, sometimes i do wonder if a lot of us want to take our chance with the cliff if the alternative is a life filled with a little less stuff...

Knotweed is aggressive, where ever it grows, including natural habitat. Of course, the flip side of this is it isn't really aggressive, just very successful; it sends down very long root rhizomous roots, which themselves store energy to draw on in times of hardship plus large leaves which starve plants below. As plants go, it's pretty clever.

I think humanity is aggressive by nature, there's quite a lot of research which shows Chimps, or rather gangs of adolescent male chimps, take pleasure in violence. They go off marauding for other groups of primates, including other chimps and kill for the sake of it. Chimps and humans are unique in this aspect. Like Knotweed though, we're also rather clever.

Economic growth and climate change? It's fairly easy in the developed world to decide to not want more all the time, less easy in third world countries. There's a large, global population still to get beyond subsistence; at the very least, these nations will strive first, think of the climate second, for the foreseeable future. Can't say I blame them either.

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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

Knotweed is aggressive, where ever it grows, including natural habitat. Of course, the flip side of this is it isn't really aggressive, just very successful; it sends down very long root rhizomous roots, which themselves store energy to draw on in times of hardship plus large leaves which starve plants below. As plants go, it's pretty clever.

I think humanity is aggressive by nature, there's quite a lot of research which shows Chimps, or rather gangs of adolescent male chimps, take pleasure in violence. They go off marauding for other groups of primates, including other chimps and kill for the sake of it. Chimps and humans are unique in this aspect. Like Knotweed though, we're also rather clever.

Economic growth and climate change? It's fairly easy in the developed world to decide to not want more all the time, less easy in third world countries. There's a large, global population still to get beyond subsistence; at the very least, these nations will strive first, think of the climate second, for the foreseeable future. Can't say I blame them either.

Well, I suppose, yes. But I doubt (and I'm not the horticulturalist here...) that Japanese Knotweed is the unchallengeable pain it is here in it's native habitat (Japan?)? As to us, again a kind of yes. But, we don't just have sticks at our disposal we have serious killing machines. So, perhaps we are aggressive but with tools, machines that make that much, much, much worse. Smart apes with guns - pretty frightening. Oh, and perhaps chimps are now under such pressure (remember they are much hunted and face habitat loss) that they too are acting outside their normal behaviour? just wondering...Of course if you're a benign as a mountain gorilla you've had it when you face humans (which is a clue perhaps).

Perhaps that's what I was trying to say...

Edited by Devonian
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Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

Take away the boundaries society puts on us and you will soon see humans retrogress to a mind set much like the young male chimps. Certainly in terms of behaviour.

Why do you think the boundaries are there? We haven't evolved that much yet.

Edit: Re the Silverbacks, just because channel 4 shows the picking the fleas of each other does in no way mean these creatures will not fight and kill to protect themselves, not so different to humans I suspect.

Edited by Dartmoor_Matt
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Posted
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon
  • Location: Near Newton Abbot or east Dartmoor, Devon

Take away the boundaries society puts on us and you will soon see humans retrogress to a mind set much like the young male chimps. Certainly in terms of behaviour.

I don't agree - most people have been, are, and will be civil amd non violent.

Why do you think the boundaries are there? We haven't evolved that much yet.

Edit: Re the Silverbacks, just because channel 4 shows the picking the fleas of each other does in no way mean these creatures will not fight and kill to protect themselves, not so different to humans I suspect.

Oh, there is a big difference between starting and responding to violence.

Anyway, back to growth and climate, I can see, given the resources available, limits to global growth. So, it's how we manage that coming change imo.

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Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

I don't agree - most people have been, are, and will be civil amd non violent.

Really? I'm not so sure you will find an anthropologist who agrees, but lets not go round in circles here to.

Oh, there is a big difference between starting and responding to violence.

The outcome is the same though, so not in the scheme of things.

Anyway, back to growth and climate, I can see, given the resources available, limits to global growth. So, it's how we manage that coming change imo.

There is a limit to some resources, but not all, and that is quite an important point. And as above, if we are talking very long term we will eventually see mining operations that take place off this planet. Of this I am sure. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but in 100 years or so.

Growth can come from all sorts of places, resources and ideas. But I agree, in the short term the move to clampdown on emissions will have to lead to a collapse in growth of economies.

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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

Knotweed is aggressive, where ever it grows, including natural habitat. Of course, the flip side of this is it isn't really aggressive, just very successful; it sends down very long root rhizomous roots, which themselves store energy to draw on in times of hardship plus large leaves which starve plants below. As plants go, it's pretty clever.

I think humanity is aggressive by nature, there's quite a lot of research which shows Chimps, or rather gangs of adolescent male chimps, take pleasure in violence. They go off marauding for other groups of primates, including other chimps and kill for the sake of it. Chimps and humans are unique in this aspect. Like Knotweed though, we're also rather clever.

Economic growth and climate change? It's fairly easy in the developed world to decide to not want more all the time, less easy in third world countries. There's a large, global population still to get beyond subsistence; at the very least, these nations will strive first, think of the climate second, for the foreseeable future. Can't say I blame them either.

'Afternoon Dawn! :drinks:

Isn't behavioural evolution fascinating!! I remember observing my two cats, Arnie and Conan (Don't ask! :blush: ) sitting patiently while the sparrows were eating all their food...On other days, I'd find decapitated birds and rodents lying on the doorstep...I do think that felines enjoy killing things...Maybe, it's like sex? If ALL species didn't 'enjoy' it, said species wouldn't exist???? :unsure:

PS: What's any of that got to do with economic Growth???

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Posted
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon
  • Weather Preferences: Cold in winter, snow, frost but warm summers please
  • Location: Kingsteignton, Devon

'Afternoon Dawn! drinks.gif

Isn't behavioural evolution fascinating!! I remember observing my two cats, Arnie and Conan (Don't ask! blush.gif ) sitting patiently while the sparrows were eating all their food...On other days, I'd find decapitated birds and rodents lying on the doorstep...I do think that felines enjoy killing things...Maybe, it's like sex? If ALL species didn't 'enjoy' it, said species wouldn't exist???? unsure.gif

PS: What's any of that got to do with economic Growth???

It links to other animal behaviour, such as chimps, which in turn links to human behaviour which in turn links to economics, which is afteral a social science. I think.

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Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

I don't agree - most people have been, are, and will be civil amd non violent.

I think that if their environment requires them to be, then that is the case. The Western world requires such behaviour in return for the ability to specialise - if this were not the case then we'd be spending our days hunting etc etc. Sometimes some people extend behavioural norms outside this contractual basis - this is called breaking the law, and extending outside of predetermined norms is such a threat to society that we brand such people criminal and ostracise, or even cage them.

The above is one extrema, following is the other ....

What happens when you put good people into evil positions .... we have the scientific experiment to show us exactly what we are all capable of: The Stanford Prison Experiment (EDIT: I should add that the contents of this link might upset some people - it's not offensive, per se, just, perhaps, shocking)

I suspect, as always, the truth is somewhere in between ( always a nice place :unsure: ) but my suspicions about natural human tendencies are weighted towards Stanford ...

Edited by VillagePlank
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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

'Afternoon Dawn! :drinks:

Isn't behavioural evolution fascinating!! I remember observing my two cats, Arnie and Conan (Don't ask! :blush: ) sitting patiently while the sparrows were eating all their food...On other days, I'd find decapitated birds and rodents lying on the doorstep...I do think that felines enjoy killing things...Maybe, it's like sex? If ALL species didn't 'enjoy' it, said species wouldn't exist???? :unsure:

PS: What's any of that got to do with economic Growth???

Afternoon my Lovely!

Funny you should mention Cats and economic growth...

Cats kill whether they are hungry or not, deep instinct tells them to take whilst they can, amass a store cupboard in case of need. Are we so different in our drive for more, more, more?

VP - agreed. Social norms and expectations dictate much of our behaviour, strip away those constraints and underneath, we're just animals too. Alcohol often strips away inhibitions, all too often resulting in violent outbursts between folk; does alcohol make people violent or does it just numb social inibitions so that natural behaviour emerges?

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Posted
  • Location: Rochester, Kent
  • Location: Rochester, Kent

.... does alcohol make people violent or does it just numb social inibitions so that natural behaviour emerges?

It removes the sense of the norms, I think, being a powerful disinhibitor, such that a willingness to correspond to a (taught) social contract is drastically reduced.

We are certainly moving down the nature/nuture argument here. For what it's worth, in my opinion, our genome simply modifies risks of certain traits; and our environment nails those risks.

We await fussion.

I think that we already have fussion. It's a type of fusion that is all too very fussy about kicking off at room temperature .... :unsure:

Edited by VillagePlank
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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

We are certainly moving down the nature/nuture argument here. For what it's worth, in my opinion, our genome simply modifies risks of certain traits; and our environment nails those risks.

And for what it's worth, from my perspective, I'd say it's 50/50 nature/nurture with opportunity having quite an impact upon which is more prevalent. I was adopted at a week old, as an adult I've met and got to know my natural parents, (more different that my adoptive family would be hard to find) I definitely am half nature, half nurture and I think that's a fairly common experience.

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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.

And for what it's worth, from my perspective, I'd say it's 50/50 nature/nurture with opportunity having quite an impact upon which is more prevalent. I was adopted at a week old, as an adult I've met and got to know my natural parents, (more different that my adoptive family would be hard to find) I definitely am half nature, half nurture and I think that's a fairly common experience.

My best friend was adopted too, Dawn, back in Soviet Days in Latvia...Unfortunately, Soviet discipline involved too much of the 'corporal;' she was victim to the belt! That said, she was also made to read 20 pages per day; and now, she's a brilliant person...The problem is though, she now finds it hard to believe that someone can love her just for who she is. Nature, nurture? I don't know! :)

Sometimes, too-much discipline can make folks scared of how good they actually are! :)

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    UK Storm and Severe Convective Forecast

    UK Severe Convective & Storm Forecast - Issued 2024-03-28 09:16:06 Valid: 28/03/2024 0800 - 29/03/2024 0600 SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH - THURS 28 MARCH 2024 Click here for the full forecast

    Nick F
    Nick F
    Latest weather updates from Netweather
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