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Vast East Siberian Arctic Shelf Methane Stores Destabilizing And Venting


PersianPaladin

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Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    NSF issues world a wake-up call: "Release of even a fraction of the methane stored in the shelf could trigger abrupt climate warming."

    http://climateprogre...Google%20Reader

    National Science Foundation press release: -

    http://www.nsf.gov/n...g=NSF&from=news

    "The release to the atmosphere of only one percent of the methane assumed to be stored in shallow hydrate deposits might alter the current atmospheric burden of methane up to 3 to 4 times," Shakhova said. "The climatic consequences of this are hard to predict."

    What do we do about this?

    I suggest a big operation to burn it off somehow.

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    Posted
  • Location: South Yorkshire
  • Location: South Yorkshire

    What do we do about this?

    I suggest a big operation to burn it off somehow.

    Nothing we can do about it,just like climate change as a whole. Besides,we'd all suffocate seeing as burning methane requires two molecules of oxygen for each one of methane - and one of the resulting compounds is CO2 - for those who are worried about such a delightful,necessary,essential chemical... Look,if the world's gonna end in some terrible conflagration I'm as ready as I'll ever be.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    Nothing we can do about it,just like climate change as a whole. Besides,we'd all suffocate seeing as burning methane requires two molecules of oxygen for each one of methane - and one of the resulting compounds is CO2 - for those who are worried about such a delightful,necessary,essential chemical... Look,if the world's gonna end in some terrible conflagration I'm as ready as I'll ever be.

    Well far better to burn it than to simply do nothing. I don't buy the idea that we'll all be suffocating as a result.

    Underground nukes could be an option (albeit that region would have to be evacuated).

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    This article is interesting: -

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227141.100-ice-on-fire-the-next-fossil-fuel.html?page=3

    Mind you, I really think the reserve estimates are questionable given how many times people forget to take into account exponential growth.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stourbridge
  • Location: Stourbridge

    im sick of reading all these horrific stories on these random websites. no story can ever be made out to be benign or one that has multiple solutions. reading through the articles there frankly scares me, as it makes out the human race has little hope of survival, a mass extinction event in inevitable, and it will happen within the next century. someone reassure me, what is the hope of combatting human climate change, and these alarmist scenarios.

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    Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

    im sick of reading all these horrific stories on these random websites. no story can ever be made out to be benign or one that has multiple solutions. reading through the articles there frankly scares me, as it makes out the human race has little hope of survival, a mass extinction event in inevitable, and it will happen within the next century. someone reassure me, what is the hope of combatting human climate change, and these alarmist scenarios.

    Can't comment upon those articles as I don't have time, however, rest assured a warmer world will not lead to a mass extinction event.

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    Posted
  • Location: Stourbridge
  • Location: Stourbridge

    Can't comment upon those articles as I don't have time, however, rest assured a warmer world will not lead to a mass extinction event.

    thanks, its just methane is such a potent greenhouse gas, and if it was released would really put our world in jeopardy, some of the comments on the articles talk about all types of alarmist scenarios, land masses being flooded, a suffocating world. one of the websites talks about the collapse of the economy within the next 20 years, water sources drying out, all sorts of alarmist stuff. look what the internet has created, mass hype and worry. why cant we all be hippies? :whistling:

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

    I wish I had Jethro's confidence in it not showing an awful potential. If it were one of natures rapid warm ups (CO2 releases through volcanic/ridge activity, mechanical weathering of rocks etc) and methane feedback took place our critters would be impacted bad enough but with the number of species we have driven to the edge of extinction on top of that?

    With the Siberian side of the Arctic being the area that has been ice free longest since the turn of the century the wave action (that was once damped by sea ice) will have started mixing the horizons within the ocean smashing the halocline layer and allowing free mixing of the warmer saltier bottom layers. This leaves the submerged permafrost exposed to thaw 12 months a year.

    Permafrost on both land and under the seas is venting Methane .Studies show a 31% increase in methane over a 4 year period (04 to 08) so we are now starting to amass measurable quantities of methane (21 times more potent than CO2) across the pole.

    After another 'odd' winter up there and revelations about the nature of the ice packs health (Barbers 'rotten ice' finds) we have to have concerns about this years sea ice melt and the impacts of ice free ocean further in land.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire
  • Location: Coalpit Heath, South Gloucestershire

    im sick of reading all these horrific stories on these random websites. no story can ever be made out to be benign or one that has multiple solutions. reading through the articles there frankly scares me, as it makes out the human race has little hope of survival, a mass extinction event in inevitable, and it will happen within the next century. someone reassure me, what is the hope of combatting human climate change, and these alarmist scenarios.

    Righty ho, then, I'm up for the challenge of reassuring you. :lol:

    I am 54. I have been around for over half a century ( :whistling: ). In all of that time, there has always been some sort of doom and gloom hanging over mankind. In the earlier part of my life, there was the Cold War and the threat of nuclear war and those were the things that worried people and were going to kill us. Then, for a short time, there was AIDS, which was going to wipe out half of the world population. Then came the environment and all of this climate catastrophy malarkey. I have to admit, it's getting a jolly good run......it'll be giving the Cold War a run for it's money at this rate.

    There have been countless other "scares". The ozone layer. The coral reefs. Acid rain. SARS. Bird flu. Pig flu.

    "Scares" have always been there. I think it is inherent in man to have a "scare" to believe in. It can be a healthy thing, if it focuses the mind on doing something about it!

    I don't know how old you are, azores92 (is there a clue in your name......are you 18 perchance?), but the explosion of communication over the last 20 years has meant that just about everyone knows everything that is going on in the world and this magnifies things by thousands of times, making it seem a lot worse than it is as it is "in yer face" all the time. I don't wish to bring politics into it either, but the government has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility for scaring the life out of people by it's actions. The merest hint of anything and it's at panic stations. Schools having to shove global warming in childrens' faces. The BBC is in the government's pocket and so it compounds the issue(s) in everyones' living rooms.

    So there are two main points that you can think of if you need to be reassured...

    1) There have always been scares and there always will be! Yet we are still here!

    2) Modern communication channels mean that everything is "in yer face" all the time!

    Please don't worry, or I shall be worrying about you....and I've got enough of my own stuff to be worrying about! :lol:

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

    Isn't that a bit "Boy who called Wolf!" Nog's?

    Just because we've had many scares doesn't mean that some are not real and present. I think you have to read the info and make up your own mind.

    That said some things you can do nothing about so why waste energy needlessly worrying? We will not stop our polluting ways and by the time AGW has pushed things beyond their 'tipping points' there is nothing we can do only mitigate the impacts. The Arctic has gone beyond it's point of no return (IMHO) and all we can do is witness it unfold.smile.gif

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    Posted
  • Location: Stourbridge
  • Location: Stourbridge

    thanks noggin, im 17 at the moment, the only thing that concerns me this time round is the access to more data, scares like AIDS in the 1980s were little known and researched, but the whole methane leakage from siberia has been looked into for a while, and it does sadden me/scare me that this could really put mankind to the test, within my lifetime anyway :help:

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    Posted
  • Location: South Yorkshire
  • Location: South Yorkshire

    Righty ho, then, I'm up for the challenge of reassuring you. smile.gif

    I am 54. I have been around for over half a century ( dirol.gif ). In all of that time, there has always been some sort of doom and gloom hanging over mankind. In the earlier part of my life, there was the Cold War and the threat of nuclear war and those were the things that worried people and were going to kill us. Then, for a short time, there was AIDS, which was going to wipe out half of the world population. Then came the environment and all of this climate catastrophy malarkey. I have to admit, it's getting a jolly good run......it'll be giving the Cold War a run for it's money at this rate...........

    The wisdom of your years shines through,Nog (hey I'm not far behind you)!

    Cop a load of this-

    http://www.dailymail...icide-pact.html

    If you ask me,folk are going soft in the head thanks to the infestation of crazed alarmists we are currently suffering. Who was it who said something like "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"?

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    Posted
  • Location: Stourbridge
  • Location: Stourbridge

    The wisdom of your years shines through,Nog (hey I'm not far behind you)!

    Cop a load of this-

    http://www.dailymail...icide-pact.html

    If you ask me,folk are going soft in the head thanks to the infestation of crazed alarmists we are currently suffering. Who was it who said something like "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"?

    god knows how much stress people these days are enduring thanks to these websites, myself included! i think that was a roosevelt quotation there. but noggin, i think you are right, so far as there are always people out there that want something different to worry others about, Y2K, the scare with influenza virae over the years, comet/asteroid impacts, 2012 predictions, you name it. t'internet ladies and gents :help:

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    Posted
  • Location: South Yorkshire
  • Location: South Yorkshire

    god knows how much stress people these days are enduring thanks to these websites, myself included! i think that was a roosevelt quotation there. but noggin, i think you are right, so far as there are always people out there that want something different to worry others about, Y2K, the scare with influenza virae over the years, comet/asteroid impacts, 2012 predictions, you name it. t'internet ladies and gents dry.gif

    Want something to really fear that's very real? Future energy bills (as if they aren't horrendous enough - mine for the last quarter was over £500) and the cost of simply going about daily existance. All necessary to 'tackle' non-existant global warming man-made climate change,you understand.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    If people want to learn about the politics of fear; they should watch the BBC documentary "The Power Of Nightmares". Its rather interesting.

    In terms of the internet; well yes...it can be dangerous for your health if you just read anything and assume it to have credibility. What I posted, does indeed have credibility (i.e. from experts in their field, published research, etc) so it should be taken seriously.

    However, what I don't think people should do is panic. There are solutions that can be employed to MINIMIZE the impact of the coming calamities.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
    About two-thirds of global methane comes from man-made sources, and levels have more than doubled since the industrial revolution.Unlike carbon dioxide, methane lasts only a decade or so in the atmosphere, which has led some experts to call for greater attention to curbs on its production. Reductions in methane emissions could bring faster results in the fight against climate change, they say.

    http://www.guardian....mafrost-methane

    http://www.independe...oms-417807.html

    I think we really need to do something about man-made sources of methane as well as burning fossil fuels (the coming reality of Peak Oil will deal with the fossil-fuel problem regardless). Its the least we can do to mitigate the impact that this Siberian permamelt will make.

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
    "No one can answer this question," she said of whether the venting was caused by global warming or by natural factors. But a projected rise in temperatures could quicken the thaw.

    "It's good that these emissions are documented. But you cannot say they're increasing," Martin Heimann, an expert at the Max Planck Institute for Biogeochemistry in Germany who wrote a separate article on methane in Science, told Reuters.

    "These leaks could have been occurring all the time" since the last Ice Age 10,000 years ago, he said. He wrote that the release of 8 million tonnes of methane a year was "negligible" compared to global emissions of about 440 million tonnes.

    Shakhova's study said there was an "urgent need" to monitor the region for possible future changes since permafrost traps vast amounts of methane, the second most common greenhouse gas from human activities after carbon dioxide.

    Monitoring could resolve if the venting was "a steadily ongoing phenomenon or signals the start of a more massive release period," according to the scientists, based at U.S., Russian and Swedish research institutions.

    http://news.yahoo.co...climate_methane

    This is a good piece by the folks at RealClimate. It should help put people at ease regarding the methane situation: -

    http://www.realclima...ne-on-the-move/

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

    So because it isn't happening no need to worry? Kinda a reverse Chicken little? If I were stood by a dam that showed huge cracks developing I'd be outa there quick sharp! Are we not seeing the cracks in the dam? does not the polar meltdown prelude a permafrost meltdown and ,if not ,why not?

    We are beyond influence (IMHO) and in the realms of mitigation so we must figure what comes next.

    What comes next?

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    Posted
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City
  • Location: 4 miles north of Durham City

    So because it isn't happening no need to worry? Kinda a reverse Chicken little? If I were stood by a dam that showed huge cracks developing I'd be outa there quick sharp! Are we not seeing the cracks in the dam? does not the polar meltdown prelude a permafrost meltdown and ,if not ,why not?

    We are beyond influence (IMHO) and in the realms of mitigation so we must figure what comes next.

    What comes next?

    Read the article. It doesn't say we should be complacent, but it does caution about panicking over "catastrophic" climate-change from methane.

    As for our needs in cutting carbon-emissions, well not to worry. Peak Oil will soon take care of emissions from tractors, trucks, ships, cars, airplanes and processing plants. It's going to be ugly and violent for a lot of people though (if education doesn't get out about permaculture). Natural gas is strongly correllated to oil-production and that will be greatly reduced very soon too (hence the recent talks by BP over shale-gas, which is highly controversial).

    Future economic contraction is inevitable. Its going to happen naturally - and will be quite brutal sadly.

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    Posted
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.

    Read the article. It doesn't say we should be complacent, but it does caution about panicking over "catastrophic" climate-change from methane.

    As for our needs in cutting carbon-emissions, well not to worry. Peak Oil will soon take care of emissions from tractors, trucks, ships, cars, airplanes and processing plants. It's going to be ugly and violent for a lot of people though (if education doesn't get out about permaculture). Natural gas is strongly correllated to oil-production and that will be greatly reduced very soon too (hence the recent talks by BP over shale-gas, which is highly controversial).

    Future economic contraction is inevitable. Its going to happen naturally - and will be quite brutal sadly.

    Tractors........... That's the farms telephone boxed then

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

    they dont call it horse power fer nowt! thats a lot of ponies we're loosin!!!

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    Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

    May I recommend.......

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    Posted
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......
  • Weather Preferences: Hot & Sunny, Cold & Snowy
  • Location: Mytholmroyd, West Yorks.......

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