Iceland's Eyjafjallajokull Volcano

[Coast]

OK, so restrictions are being eased around Europe but is there more to come from this natural event/saga?

Please discuss here.

[SnowBear]

Just been reading this..

The Lib Dems transport spokesman Norman Baker cautioned against blaming the government.

"There are certainly questions to be asked, and I think the Transport Select Committee after the election will have a full inquiry into this to see why the Met Office's advice was so different from Eurocontrol, the European air-traffic coordinator in terms of the areas which could be flown through," he said.

"However I do think it's important to remember that the government has had to listen to professional advice on this."

Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8633875.stm

I think they were all working to the same international protocol as I see it, just perhaps Europe took chances/jumped the gun before the results were released from the tests and meetings. In truth the CAA probably checked and double checked with various bodies on all this before finalising their changes last night.

I also note that a lot more responsibility is being put onto the airlines while ash is about, a thorough inspection before and after every flight while ash is about, and I bet there are some severe penalties if they don't. I do wonder what the long term effects of flights will be from flying through lower concentrations of ash over time though, metal fatigue, erosion, etc, and for the sake of patience, would this not increase airline fares due to higher maintenance? BA were losing ~£10 million a day, wonder how much it would have been to repair/replace the engines on say a batch of 20 airliners? 20 x 4...80 engines?

Just as a side note, I noticed someone comment last night that the CAA could not challenge/sue BA legally, they can, if BA had have landed last night before the opening of Heathrow, BA would have apparently been against regulations and the CAA would have been able to prosecute and fine BA for breaking those regulations.

EDIT:

A good insight here about why the changes were made to the guidelines, we have technology now which enables a finer degree of measuring of ash than what was available in the 80's when the previous guidelines were drawn up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8634276.stm

Edited April 21, 2010 by SnowBear

[katemart]

Anyone who is due to fly in the next few weeks or who is awaiting the return of loved ones might want to put the wind up themselves by watching Channel 5 tonight:

Volcanic Ash: Flight of Terror

The past week has seen Britain's airspace grind to a halt leaving hundreds of thousands of passengers stranded because of ash clouds from the Icelandic volcano. Volcanic Ash: Flight of Terror tells the harrowing story of British Airways Flight 009 which filled with sulphurous smoke after flying into a cloud of volcanic ash. All four of the 747's engines then failed sending the aircraft and its 263 passengers plunging towards the Indian Ocean.

Hmm, I won't be relaxing about this for a few weeks - esp after reading LadyP's link the other day.

[Paul Sherman]

Anyone who is due to fly in the next few weeks or who is awaiting the return of loved ones might want to put the wind up themselves by watching Channel 5 tonight:

Volcanic Ash: Flight of Terror

The past week has seen Britain's airspace grind to a halt leaving hundreds of thousands of passengers stranded because of ash clouds from the Icelandic volcano. Volcanic Ash: Flight of Terror tells the harrowing story of British Airways Flight 009 which filled with sulphurous smoke after flying into a cloud of volcanic ash. All four of the 747's engines then failed sending the aircraft and its 263 passengers plunging towards the Indian Ocean.

Hmm, I won't be relaxing about this for a few weeks - esp after reading LadyP's link the other day.

Yep would watch it.

Would it put me off flying on Monday ?

No way, safest form of Transport, more chance of getting an idiotic Drunk Chav mow you down whilst walking along the road.

[katemart]

Yep would watch it.

Would it put me off flying on Monday ?

No way, safest form of Transport, more chance of getting an idiotic Drunk Chav mow you down whilst walking along the road.

Hmm, it's not the fact of impending death or hideous mutilation, it's the knowing about for at least 10 mins beforehand!

[Bottesford]

Arrg Ryanair have now resumed flights from tmw 0500 having said for past two days they would be cancelled. Thus I've already requested a refund via their website, cancelled my accommodation and made new plans.

Will they actually refund me now?! Can see this being a claim to the credit card job.

[NorthNorfolkWeather]

Still earthquakes around the Volcano

http://en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/earthquakes/myrdalsjokull/

[dogs32]

Ive just seen the most vapour trails of my life.....

looks like they are throwing the jets up fast or the new flight path is over Gloucester

I thought it was 1939 The Battle of Britain

Edited April 21, 2010 by dogs32

[Let_it_snow]

I notice on the Air Trafic radar there are several planes that are doing zero speed at certain altitudes, I assume this is normal on this radar.

http://www.flightradar24.com/

Edited April 21, 2010 by Let_it_snow

[coldfingers]

Yes, seismic activity increasing again. http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremoren.htm

No sign of this problem going away in the near future so good news if the aricraft really can stand low level concentrations of ash. IF.

[Let_it_snow]

Yes, seismic activity increasing again. http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremoren.htm

No sign of this problem going away in the near future so good news if the aricraft really can stand low level concentrations of ash. IF.

I couldnt see what it was doing on the webcam earlier but looks like it is spewing out ash again but in the opposite direction of before.

[The PIT]

At the moment it looks like they don't really know how much ash is up there.

"Two research aircraft will fly [on Wednesday] to record ash size distributions to assess how near to the new tolerance concentrations actually are, which will also be compared to previous days".

So basically they're risking it and since ash drifts around aircraft could be flying in ash above the new limits. I also doubt that after each flight the plane is grounded and checked over properly as this would be a time consuming and costly exercise.

I wonder if anyone's done accumulative testing too see how repeated exposure effects the engine and engine life????

Anyway in a few days this problem will be mute as the winds will change direction blowing the ash away.

[johnholmes]

i can understand your skepticism Pit but 20 years of working with the airline industry, civil and military, and if the regulation says after every flight then that is what will be done. Non announced visits by the regulators ensure this is done believe me.

[The PIT]

i can understand your skepticism Pit but 20 years of working with the airline industry, civil and military, and if the regulation says after every flight then that is what will be done. Non announced visits by the regulators ensure this is done believe me.

Regulators will be busy then.

How long does it take to strip down and check engines John ???

[johnholmes]

No idea Pit but it will, if the regulations about to be promulgated say so, be done

ref your earlier qu on the closed thread

Morning John

However don't you find it a bit strange that BA just announced they were going to land at Heathrow despite it being closed and suddenly when the circling over the country the ban gets suddenly lifted?

If they knew that new information suggested it was okay to fly why not announce the fact and then say they're flying across.

I smell something and it's not bad communication or sulphur rather the smell of money, loads of money and the biggest rats of them all lawyers

See my answer in the thread 'would you fly'.

I am one of those who will wait for the NATS/CAA/Euro Control investigation into this particular volcanic release before pointing any fingers at anything underhand going on.

what does require questions asked is how the government reacted to what to anyone with any knowledge of this volcanic eruption and meteorology was that it was not going to be a 24 hour event. All along the models have pointed to winds from the Iceland area into the UK and much of western Europe, other than brief spells, for around 5-7 days from the onset. So why did it take so long before anyone even thought about doing something to bring back people using land and sea transport, using civil and our own military?

Edited April 21, 2010 by johnholmes

[The PIT]

No idea Pit but it will, if the regulations about to be promulgated say so, be done

ref your earlier qu on the closed thread

Morning John

However don't you find it a bit strange that BA just announced they were going to land at Heathrow despite it being closed and suddenly when the circling over the country the ban gets suddenly lifted?

If they knew that new information suggested it was okay to fly why not announce the fact and then say they're flying across.

I smell something and it's not bad communication or sulphur rather the smell of money, loads of money and the biggest rats of them all lawyers

See my answer in the thread 'would you fly'.

I am one of those who will wait for the NATS/CAA/Euro Control investigation into this particular volcanic release before pointing any fingers at anything underhand going on.

what does require questions asked is how the government reacted to what to anyone with any knowledge of this volcanic eruption and meteorology was that it was not going to be a 24 hour event. All along the models have pointed to winds from the Iceland area into the UK and much of western Europe, other than brief spells, for around 5-7 days from the onset. So why did it take so long before anyone even thought about doing something to bring back people using land and sea transport, using civil and our own military?

Well since the Volcano could have ceased erupting at any time or reduced the ash to a minimum plus a slight change of wind direction would have altered things they probably decided to wait.

It also takes time to get ships in position as well. As far as we know they might have been needed for nato movements.

Airlines should also have backup plans for such emergencies.

[No Balls Like Snow Balls]

No idea Pit but it will, if the regulations about to be promulgated say so, be done

ref your earlier qu on the closed thread

Morning John

However don't you find it a bit strange that BA just announced they were going to land at Heathrow despite it being closed and suddenly when the circling over the country the ban gets suddenly lifted?

If they knew that new information suggested it was okay to fly why not announce the fact and then say they're flying across.

I smell something and it's not bad communication or sulphur rather the smell of money, loads of money and the biggest rats of them all lawyers

See my answer in the thread 'would you fly'.

I am one of those who will wait for the NATS/CAA/Euro Control investigation into this particular volcanic release before pointing any fingers at anything underhand going on.

what does require questions asked is how the government reacted to what to anyone with any knowledge of this volcanic eruption and meteorology was that it was not going to be a 24 hour event. All along the models have pointed to winds from the Iceland area into the UK and much of western Europe, other than brief spells, for around 5-7 days from the onset. So why did it take so long before anyone even thought about doing something to bring back people using land and sea transport, using civil and our own military?

The goverment has a duty to protect it's citizens, in this instance what would the goverment be protecting it's citizen's from?. Live's were not in danger so I see no reason for the military to become involved. The last time the Navy was used to rescue British citizens was when the Israeli's started bombing Lebanon and then yes there live's were in danger. This saga has been a inconvienance but never at any stage has it been life threatening.

[conor123]

Hey guys, Conor again here, still in Germany.

Thanks for the emails before, my flight leaves around 17:15 tommorow here with Ryanair so fingers crossed it wont be cancelled a fourth time and ill be back in time to enjoy the heatwave!

[The PIT]

Ah well some minor problems due to ash http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/8634712.stm

[coldfingers]

seismic activity has been increased for 3 hours now, and plume showing on webcams slowly getting higher again.

And darker at times

http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremoren.htm

Edited April 21, 2010 by coldfingers

[LadyPakal]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Willie-Walsh-Criticises-UK-No-fly-Zone-Planes-Flying-After-BA-Boss-Plays-Game-Of-Brinkmanship/Article/201004315611447?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_6&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15611447_Willie_Walsh_Criticises_UK_No-fly_Zone%3A_Planes_Flying_After_BA_Boss_Plays_Game_Of_Brinkmanship

"The extent of the turnaround has become clear after the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) revealed the new agreed safe level of ash is 20 times that detected on some test flights at the height of the crisis."

Hmm...

[picog]

I'd like to see the justification for the new 'safe' levels of ash.

It's striking on the webcam images that the snow on the slopes of the volcano is still very white — I thought it would have looked more brown/black by now.

[LadyPakal]

It's striking on the webcam images that the snow on the slopes of the volcano is still very white — I thought it would have looked more brown/black by now.

Well, they did have fresh snow fall yesterday.

[coldfingers]

I'd like to see the justification for the new 'safe' levels of ash.

It's striking on the webcam images that the snow on the slopes of the volcano is still very white — I thought it would have looked more brown/black by now.

As LadyPakal says above, they had fresh snowfal, before that the snow was looking very murky as the wind had been strong and blowing the ash down across the snow fields and glacier.

Seismic activity charts definitely on an upward trend again. http://hraun.vedur.is/ja/Katla2009/stodvaplott.html

Edited April 21, 2010 by coldfingers

[katemart]

Problems or rumours??? http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/412863-747-emergency-diversion-two-engines-shut-down.html

Following incidents have been reported after the re-opening of UK airspace last night and are currently believed to have been caused by volcanic ash. But please note that these events are *still* under investigation.

A World Airways Boeing MD-11, operating for Allied Air, that flew from Benghazi, Libya to Ostend-Bruges, Belgium via Maastrichat ( on 20th ) was grounded due to ash found in engines. The engine reportedly suffered non-serious damage. The aircraft is currently being inspected.

The aircraft in question is N384WA. Allied Air is a Nigerian operator.

A Thomas Cook 757, reg G-JMCF, on a positioning flight as TCX952P, returned to Manchester due to a loss of compressor bleed air from one engine after crew sensed an ‘intense smell of volcanic ash’ during the climb between FL160-FL200. The aircraft was out over the North Sea off Nofolk/Suffolk.

The live ATC recording of the Thomas Cook incident could be found https://sites.google.com/a/airlineindustryreview.com/fileserver/1/TCX952P.mp3?attredirects=0

http://www.airlineindustryreview.com/latest-volcanic-ash-related-aircraft-accidents/

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