Surviving Snow Patches

[firefly]

The snow visible from the A9 at Drumochter has lain unusually long this year, due to the fact that the gullies that the patches are lying in are west-facing. This reflects the easterly dominance of the snow this year. The picture below was taken by me on the 1st July, but I don't know how much is left now. Still a wee bit I'd have thought...

There has been a huge loss of snow in the last couple of weeks, particularly on the Cairngorm-Macdui plateau. The weather has been warm, but not especially so. My own hypothesis is that the lack of freeze-thaw cycles over winter meant that the huge volumes of snow that fell did not consolidate. I can't remember one SW 'hairdryer' over a winter that was characterised by cold, clear weather interspersed with heavy snow from the north, east and south-east.

The prognosis for the remaining patches is not good in my opinion. So much so that I think we'll be lucky to have any survivals this year. I don't expect any in the west (for the first time since 2006), and only hope that the old faithfuls of Braeriach pull through.

[Backtrack]

Thanks Firefly. Have you any idea on the rough depths of these patches? Surely you must think some patches will make it. The first snows on the Scottish peaks will start mid/late October I would of though.

Am I correct?

[Norrance]

The main patch in Firefly's photograph was still a good size last Saturday but the other two were very shrunken and looked about ready to disappear. Two other gullies also had patches. I will be passing there again this Saturday heading back South so will have a look then, cloud permitting.

[stewfox]

Thanks Firefly. Have you any idea on the rough depths of these patches? Surely you must think some patches will make it. The first snows on the Scottish peaks will start mid/late October I would of though.

Am I correct?

I think Firefly suggested in the previous thread that the lack of South Westerly’s last winter would have a impact.

Obviously it was cold and snowy in Scotland last winter but it came from the wrong direction ?.

There will be snow on the highest hills in September but I assume it wont start to last till November.

[firefly]

Thanks Firefly. Have you any idea on the rough depths of these patches? Surely you must think some patches will make it. The first snows on the Scottish peaks will start mid/late October I would of though.

Am I correct?

I'm wary of giving out depths of individual patches as I'm really not sure what they are! That said, the main one in the picture I posted from the 1st July won't be much less than around 5m: possibly up to 7.5m. That's just a guess, mind, and could be out either way.

Are you correct? Partially. The first snows generally come in October, but they are seldom 'lasting'. Mostly the snows that come in October are ephemeral. That said, in 2008 lasting snow arrived at Garbh Choire Mor (Braeriach) on the 1st October, and to Aonach Mor on the 20th October (IIRC). Mostly, though, early November is a good bet for lasting snow. In 1994 (the best year in living memory for me), snow was still melting in December from the previous winter, and had it come earlier we'd have had many more survivals.

This year is not going to be vintage, despite the huge volumes present in winter. Relics of it persist in large quantities on Cairn Gorm, and you can see the wreath on the Cas headwall of the ski area at Cairngorm here. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the webcam (there's also a wee bit visible on webcam 2).

By-the-way, at 7.00am this morning it was cold enough on the summit of Ben Nevis for a light flurry of snow. Aonach Mor was reading 1.9 Celcius, so the top of the Ben would have been around 0.7 Celcius. Whether it snowed or not I'm not sure.

I'm doing a survey on the 22nd (or 21st, depends on the weather) August on the Nevis Range, where I will be visiting some of the existing snow. If anyone fancies coming along then drop me a PM!

[Northernlights]

Was fairly chilly at the top of Cairngorm too this morning(0.9c) and the met office are saying there may be a ground frost in certain prone spots tonight so maybe the soft snow patches will firm up tonight and last a bit longer.Superb visibilty today with this air of arctic origin and the cool north wind reminds me that winter up here is never far away.

[stewfox]

This year is not going to be vintage, despite the huge volumes present in winter. Relics of it persist in large quantities on Cairn Gorm, and you can see the wreath on the Cas headwall of the ski area at Cairngorm here. Scroll down to the bottom and check out the webcam (there's also a wee bit visible on webcam 2).

Is that because the prevailing wind direction wasn’t westerly or south-westerly ?

[firefly]

Is that because the prevailing wind direction wasn’t westerly or south-westerly ?

Indeed so. The classic long-lying patches are in NE facing corries, which did particularly badly this winter. Westerly aspects did very well (as seen in the Dalwhinnie pictures) due to the prevalence of easterly/north-easterly wind and snow.

[skifreak]

Apart from the mid January storms from a SE quadrant (which after a big dump of snow is the Jackpot for CairnGorm as far as the snowsports area goes), the winter of 2010 was notable for huge snow falls in relatively light winds.

Compared to 2008 the melt season begun earlier, April was 1.3c warmer than the 61-91 average for the East of Scotland Met Office area, whereas in 2008 big accumulations of snow were racked up during April.

Though May was pretty much bang on the money, June was 1.4c above normal and while until July the spring and early summer had been unusually dry, there's been a lot of pretty blowy weather this summer.

There were a couple of uber hairdryers as April came in, the one that finally broke Loch Morlich free from ice just before Easter was particularly severe. However despite a considerable thaw of lying snow and the inevitable thaw-freeze consolidation cycle, I wonder if the depth of cover meant that only the upper layers of the snow pack benefited from the resultant consolidation and once these had thawed out the snow that remained was less somewhat less thaw resistant than normal?

[Norrance]

Came down the A9 yesterday evening and had a god look out for snow patches. Four gullies on the East side of Drummochter are still holding patches. The Northernmost still has one sizeable patch and though it is hard to tell the depth from the road it looks substantial and I reckon that it should reach August easily. No sign of anything West of the road.

The large SW facing patch on the South West side of the Cairngorms, visible from Kingussie, has broken in two now and the smaller patches in that area have gone. Further North the largest visible patch [of many]remains the Coire Cas Wall though the higher bits were cloud covered. One lowish patch remains to the South of the Lairig Ghru but a lot more have gone in the last week.

[firefly]

Thanks, Norrance.

The patch in the southern Cairngorms you refer to is Glen Feshie's Ciste Mhearad (distinct from Cairn Gorm's). It faces west, and would have benefited from easterly snow fall in the winter. Survival into August is most unusual nowadays. It is well watched by Davie Duncan in Kingussie, and he's been keeping tabs on it for many a year.

The Coire Cas patch still looks large and deep, and will easily last well into August. Again, most unusual in this day and age. Recently it's been lucky to last into mid-July, so this year represents a very good one for it.

[❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️]

Thanks, Norrance.

The patch in the southern Cairngorms you refer to is Glen Feshie's Ciste Mhearad (distinct from Cairn Gorm's). It faces west, and would have benefited from easterly snow fall in the winter. Survival into August is most unusual nowadays. It is well watched by Davie Duncan in Kingussie, and he's been keeping tabs on it for many a year.

The Coire Cas patch still looks large and deep, and will easily last well into August. Again, most unusual in this day and age. Recently it's been lucky to last into mid-July, so this year represents a very good one for it.

That track that is around 2 km southeast of Ciste Mhearad, is it accessible to the public? Could be quite handy for snow patch viewing given that it reaches 957m!

[firefly]

The track isn't open to vehicular traffic (at least to the public), but it is very popular with mountain bikers.

Here's a picture below of the snow that's visible from the A9, taken yesterday by Olderalan from Winterhighland. It's the same patch I posted earlier, albeit from a different angle.

[Paul T]

Nice pics - i cant imagine snow and cold in the UK after months of summer!

Amazing to think that close to the summit of Ben Nevis it gets cold enough for snow flurries in June/July!

[Guest]

There was a snow patch on Arran about two weeks ago...not sure when it finally melted but I saw a photo on Facebook which placed it at about mid-June, pretty good!!

[firefly]

CatchMyDrift, can you give me a link for that? I would be astonished if that were true.

[firefly]

A few hardy souls went skiing today (yes, on July the 29th!) at Ciste Mhearad, Cairngorm. Almost 200m in length, it should last in September quite easily. Picture from H11lly on Winterhighland.

http://www.winterhig...php?2,file=6680

[Guest]

CatchMyDrift, can you give me a link for that? I would be astonished if that were true.

I forgot how far into the month we were, there was a snow patch there at some point "last month" (i.e. June) but I can't get my other half to pin her friend down to a proper date. I'm sure it will be long gone by now.

[firefly]

At the risk of sounding like a nagging old wife , any chance you could post me a link? I've got ways and means of ascertaining dates from photographs...

It would be very useful indeed to know what date this was, and where it was.

Ta!

[Norrance]

Firefly, Do you know the latitude of the small low patch that remains on the West side of Braeriach? It looked pretty low to me when passing last week.

[firefly]

Firefly, Do you know the latitude of the small low patch that remains on the West side of Braeriach? It looked pretty low to me when passing last week.

I don't, Norrance, as I don't know its precise location. However, I have been informed about it, and it's generally in this area, between Coire Beanaidh and Coire Ruadh of Braeriach. Perhaps you can place it on the map?

[Backtrack]

Heading to Glasgow on Tuesday. What are the odds of any snow left around there? (Mountains of course)

[firefly]

Heading to Glasgow on Tuesday. What are the odds of any snow left around there? (Mountains of course)

None! The farthest south you'll see snow in Britain just now is here.

[Guest]

At the risk of sounding like a nagging old wife , any chance you could post me a link? I've got ways and means of ascertaining dates from photographs...

It would be very useful indeed to know what date this was, and where it was.

Ta!

I will try to find out more but MrsCatch's source is not playing ball!! :lol:

Heading to Glasgow on Tuesday. What are the odds of any snow left around there? (Mountains of course)

You'll need to head well north of Glasgow I think

[Norrance]

I don't, Norrance, as I don't know its precise location. However, I have been informed about it, and it's generally in this area, between Coire Beanaidh and Coire Ruadh of Braeriach. Perhaps you can place it on the map?

I would think that your arrow is not far off the mark. That would put it as somewhere between 2000 and 2500 feet. Pretty low for the very end of July I would say.