Christmas Weather 2011 - A White One Or Not?

[damianslaw]

I have family who live basically at the end of the runway of Leeds Bradford who seem to get a lot of snow and I can imagine since it's the highest airport in England!

And about marginal snow; in early December in 2008 I remember we had a good 2 or 3 inches of snow, yet Hipperholme 5 minutes away, had just a slight dusting on the grass and by the time we were in Brighouse there was no sign of snow what so ever!

I read that the snow margin for England was on average between 140m and 160m asl for the winter months, so if you live above that (which we both do!) then we should do well! I can back this claim up as well because Brighouse at 99m asl always gets wet snow that hardly sticks, yet Wyke which is literally a 2 minute drive or a 10 minute walk away is at 155m and does very well with snow and can have inches when Brighouse has none!

I would put the snow margin as 100m here in Cumbria. Windemere is 20-30 metres above and often receives snow when places like Kendal which are 50m lower receive none. A classic example of this was the 19th Feb this year, when Kendal had no snow, but at 100m the snow suddenly appeared on the A591. But it isn't just about height, alot depends on relief, proximity to coast, open land and hilly ground. Windermere tends to see heavier precipitation than Kendal being closer to the central fells and with less open land close by - this helps aid evaporative cooling, under marginal conditions we often do very well. Places further east such as Kendal tend to see lighter precipitation and showers suddenly dissipate, thus evaporative cooling doesn't have the same effect.

The above situation holds most truth under polar maritime/arctic maritime airstreams or when fronts move in from the southwest/west into a cold block.

The fells help trigger instability and shower clouds often suddenly develop over the central fells. Travel on the A591 between Kendal and Keswick and you will see this to great effect.

Edited September 6, 2011 by damianslaw

[summer blizzard]

thought so, i thought it was one of the higher centres. bradford city centre is low as it is in the bottom of a bowl though both have some of the highest outskirts in england at 200m plus.

[Aaron]

I would put the snow margin as 100m here in Cumbria. Windemere is 20-30 metres above and often receives snow when places like Kendal which are 50m lower receive none. A classic example of this was the 19th Feb this year, when Kendal had no snow, but at 100m the snow suddenly appeared on the A591. But it isn't just about height, alot depends on relief, proximity to coast, open land and hilly ground. Windermere tends to see heavier precipitation than Kendal being closer to the central fells and with less open land close by - this helps aid evaporative cooling, under marginal conditions we often do very well. Places further east such as Kendal tend to see lighter precipitation and showers suddenly dissipate, thus evaporative cooling doesn't have the same effect.

The above situation holds most truth under polar maritime/arctic maritime airstreams or when fronts move in from the southwest/west into a cold block.

The fells help trigger instability and shower clouds often suddenly develop over the central fells. Travel on the A591 between Kendal and Keswick and you will see this to great effect.

The snow level here on the 19th must have been a lot lower than else where in the country as we had snow even in the city centre of Leeds.

[Cheese Rice]

thought so, i thought it was one of the higher centres. bradford city centre is low as it is in the bottom of a bowl though both have some of the highest outskirts in england at 200m plus.

Bradford center is very high for a center, all above 100m

[Aaron]

Its actually not that low down, despite been in a valley/side of a valley.

The train station is at 50M ASL, The Headrow where Primark is, is 65M ASL, and Leeds Uni near Morrisons is 93M.

It's the urban heat island that is the problem. If you look at Met Office maps you will see the centres of London, Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield et al are warmer than surrounding areas.

[Cheese Rice]

Brum city center is the highest at 150M although Leeds center will see more snow.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Cheese Rice

[19jacobob93]

Its actually not that low down, despite been in a valley/side of a valley.

The train station is at 50M ASL, The Headrow where Primark is, is 65M ASL, and Leeds Uni near Morrisons is 93M.

The centre of leeds varies between 10 and 70m asl which is rather low!

thought so, i thought it was one of the higher centres. bradford city centre is low as it is in the bottom of a bowl though both have some of the highest outskirts in england at 200m plus.

Yep! Queensbury is part of Bradford and my house is at 327m, at the top of my road is Mountain which tops out at a whopping 406m!

I would put the snow margin as 100m here in Cumbria. Windemere is 20-30 metres above and often receives snow when places like Kendal which are 50m lower receive none. A classic example of this was the 19th Feb this year, when Kendal had no snow, but at 100m the snow suddenly appeared on the A591. But it isn't just about height, alot depends on relief, proximity to coast, open land and hilly ground. Windermere tends to see heavier precipitation than Kendal being closer to the central fells and with less open land close by - this helps aid evaporative cooling, under marginal conditions we often do very well. Places further east such as Kendal tend to see lighter precipitation and showers suddenly dissipate, thus evaporative cooling doesn't have the same effect.

The above situation holds most truth under polar maritime/arctic maritime airstreams or when fronts move in from the southwest/west into a cold block.

The fells help trigger instability and shower clouds often suddenly develop over the central fells. Travel on the A591 between Kendal and Keswick and you will see this to great effect.

We received a fair few inches (about 3) on the 19th of Feb, I ended up building a sledge in my garage, which turned out to be too heavy and ended up plowing up the fields so it's hung from a Christmas tree in a forest where I deserted it! But it was the same with us, other lower towns received slush and sleet!

[Aaron]

We got around 7 cm on the 19th of February. The snow level was definitely lower in West Yorkshire than elsewhere in England in January and February.

[19jacobob93]

We got around 7 cm on the 19th of February. The snow level was definitely lower in West Yorkshire than elsewhere in England in January and February.

I'd put it at about 120m since my parents house at 99m in Brighouse got only a bit of slush, yet just up the road it settled nicely!

[Cheese Rice]

The centre of leeds varies between 10 and 70m asl which is rather low!

Noooo it doesn't!

http://www.earthtools.org/

The lowest point in the whole of Leeds is 28M in the centre its 30-90M, Clarence dock scrapes in at 28M at the lowest point in the whole of Leeds.

We got around 7 cm on the 19th of February. The snow level was definitely lower in West Yorkshire than elsewhere in England in January and February.

If your talking about 2011 we did much better than the rest of the UK. We saw the spell of snow in early Jan that delivered 3-5cm and then the spell of heavy snow in Feb that lasted over 10 hours and only really affected central northern england. During that spell of snow London was a mild 10.c while Leeds was 0.c and snow.

We saw 6-8cm of snow on the ground in Feb while most of England and Wales (and possibly Scotland?) saw next to nothing for the whole of Feb.

I'd put it at about 120m since my parents house at 99m in Brighouse got only a bit of slush, yet just up the road it settled nicely!

Interestingly there was a few cm's right in the center of Leeds.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Cheese Rice

[Aaron]

If your talking about 2011 we did much better than the rest of the UK. We saw the spell of snow in early Jan that delivered 3-5cm and then the spell of heavy snow in Feb that lasted over 10 hours and only really affected central northern england. During that spell of snow London was a mild 10.c while Leeds was 0.c and snow.

We saw 6-8cm of snow on the ground in Feb while most of England and Wales (and possibly Scotland?) saw next to nothing for the whole of Feb.

Yup. Even though February 2011 was a very mild month (mildest since 2002), we still did very well for snow. Just goes to show how well we do for snow, even during mild months.

I'd put it at about 120m since my parents house at 99m in Brighouse got only a bit of slush, yet just up the road it settled nicely!

I'm 90 meters above sea level and got 7 centimeters. As Cheese Rice said even the centre of Leeds got a covering.

Edited September 7, 2011 by aaron

[19jacobob93]

Noooo it doesn't!

http://www.earthtools.org/

The lowest point in the whole of Leeds is 28M in the centre its 30-90M, Clarence dock scrapes in at 28M at the lowest point in the whole of Leeds.

Silly me! And about Leeds getting that snow, I can imagine because it snows absolutely everywhere but Brighouse!

[I remember Atlantic 252]

same with Stafford, gets less snow in town centre 80m asl, than here at 103m, known 2 inches here and just rain 3 miles to the NW and 23m lower

[Radiating Dendrite]

Here in the north downs I am at 75m, yet there are places a couple of miles away at 180m. There are even a few roads which are so steep (have all the signs etc) that at the bottom the asl is 80m, yet at the top it is 130m and the road is only around 250m long.

Cannot wait for winter, will be my first here! Expecting more snow than got in West (no snow) London.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Radiating Dendrite

[Updraft]

Last winter the snow stopped coming about a week before the day and it was pretty much all melted on Christmas day, there were only a few frozen spots on the grass left over. It was one of those long, slow and painful thaws. I am hoping for a white christmas this year, it was so close last year! What I always hope for is an East Kent streamer, those always give this area a good dumping of around a foot in the valleys and even more on top of the hills/cliffs.

[summer blizzard]

i think topography plays a part in leeds because with most of bradford h being high the air is sinking still in leeds when winds have a westerly element making the area cooler while leeds also benifits from flat land to the east in easterlies.

[damianslaw]

The centre of leeds varies between 10 and 70m asl which is rather low!

Yep! Queensbury is part of Bradford and my house is at 327m, at the top of my road is Mountain which tops out at a whopping 406m!

We received a fair few inches (about 3) on the 19th of Feb, I ended up building a sledge in my garage, which turned out to be too heavy and ended up plowing up the fields so it's hung from a Christmas tree in a forest where I deserted it! But it was the same with us, other lower towns received slush and sleet!

I like the sound of a place called Mountain - very apt that it sits above 400m, must be one of the highest settlements in England. Other high settlements include Flash (another great name), north of Leek (another great name) and Nenthead in the North Pennines.

The western suburbs of Bradford are quite high, indeed much of the area includes a number of small towns above 200m and some above 300m including Queensbury. Halifax is quite a high town for England, along with Consett it must be the highest decent sized town in England. The vast majority of our settlements sit below the 150m mark. This make a huge difference. If many were situated 200m + we would record much more snow in our main centres even with the heat island effect.

Edited September 7, 2011 by damianslaw

[19jacobob93]

I like the sound of a place called Mountain - very apt that it sits above 400m, must be one of the highest settlements in England. Other high settlements include Flash (another great name), north of Leek (another great name) and Nenthead in the North Pennines.

The western suburbs of Bradford are quite high, indeed much of the area includes a number of small towns above 200m and some above 300m including Queensbury. Halifax is quite a high town for England, along with Consett it must be the highest decent sized town in England. The vast majority of our settlements sit below the 150m mark. This make a huge difference. If many were situated 200m + we would record much more snow in our main centres even with the heat island effect.

Yep! Queensbury is the highest parish in England, as well as having the highest school in the UK which is located near mountain.

Princetown in Devon is also near the 400m mark!

And Halifax isn't that low, I think the lowest point is around 120m, plus it's surrounded with hills topping out at between 200-300m, it's an amazing sight from the town when there's nothing in Halifax and the surrounding hills are topped with snow!

Brighouse is probably the most disappointing place in the world when it comes to snow! It's a mere 67m asl and gets nobbut sleet when the surrounding towns (between 150m and 400m) have a fairly decent covering!

[stewfox]

It going be fun this year agan for sure

xmas eve 9c Heavy rain

xmas day 11c Mist and fog

Boxing Day 12c Sun and rain

[Aaron]

i think topography plays a part in leeds because with most of bradford h being high the air is sinking still in leeds when winds have a westerly element making the area cooler while leeds also benifits from flat land to the east in easterlies.

Leeds is very poor in Westerlies. During the second cold spell of December 2010 we only had a few snow flurries here while west Leeds only had around 2 cm.. parts of the North East were the only places in the UK with no snow cover during that period due to those pesky Pennines! It was really cold though, with a permanent rime frost.. would've been better if that 25 cm of snow in early December stuck around though.

Edited September 7, 2011 by aaron

[AderynCoch]

Those "pesky Pennines" worked in the North East's favour during the late November/early December spell though. We got hardly anything during that spell whilst the North East got buried (though what we did have was tenacious and stuck around).

[Isolated Frost]

Those "pesky Pennines" worked in the North East's favour during the late November/early December spell though. We got hardly anything during that spell whilst the North East got buried (though what we did have was tenacious and stuck around).

You'll probably get your one back when some Polar Maritime air flows by in the form of highly convective showers and dumps loads on the Lake District and North West while the NE gets bitter crumbs.

[damianslaw]

You'll probably get your one back when some Polar Maritime air flows by in the form of highly convective showers and dumps loads on the Lake District and North West while the NE gets bitter crumbs.

Yes this is the most favoured set up for deep snowy convection in the Lake District - but a set up almost absent from most of our recent winters. We did however see such a set up on the 20th Dec 2009 - I hope for such a set up to occur again this winter, but it is very difficult for such a set up to sustain itself unlike northeasterlies/easterlies which can wage for days on end like late nov/early dec last year.

[lorenzo]

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/2010/Rrea00120101127.gif

[Teesdale]

Yep! Queensbury is the highest parish in England, as well as having the highest school in the UK which is located near mountain.

Princetown in Devon is also near the 400m mark!

And Halifax isn't that low, I think the lowest point is around 120m, plus it's surrounded with hills topping out at between 200-300m, it's an amazing sight from the town when there's nothing in Halifax and the surrounding hills are topped with snow!

Brighouse is probably the most disappointing place in the world when it comes to snow! It's a mere 67m asl and gets nobbut sleet when the surrounding towns (between 150m and 400m) have a fairly decent covering!

Flash in Staffordshire has the highest school in the UK, at approx 465m asl. There are a few school in the N Pennines also higher than the Foxhill Primary near Mountain.

Flash also has the highest church.