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Any Surviving Snow Patches At Your Local SPAR


stewfox

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Posted
  • Location: North York Moors
  • Location: North York Moors

I was down at Ravenscar right on the coast near Scarborough today and they probably had bigger snowdrifts in places than here - much higher up.

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  • 2 months later...
Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

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Edited by stewfox
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Posted
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and heatwave
  • Location: Napton on the Hill Warwickshire 500ft

Unless, of course, you lived at the Cotswold village of Brockhampton in August 1634. If you had, you'd have seen 'a great quantity' of snow and ice that persisted from a massive January blizzard. I've seen the original hand-written note (Account book of Giles Geaste Charity, started by order of John Bartley, Bailiff of Tewksbury, 1558. Gloucester Records Office, reference D2688/1: folio 79v).

That's true, but it's not so much that the north and east facing aspects are more sheltered than others from direct sunshine, but rather the big moisture-laden Atlantic storms that roll in during winter. These storms (typically coming from a westerly and south-westerly direction) can deposit huge amounts of snow in even a 24 hour period. The combination of quantity of snow, direction and strength of wind are crucial. NE facing hollows gather this snow (in a process known as 'fetch'), where it can accumulate to an exceptional depth.

Despite the general consensus that it's been a less snowy year than normal, the numerous storms of December and early January (all from a westerly direction) have deposited a very substantial quantity of snow in the 'right' places (north and east facing hollows). Couple this with the frequent freeze/thaw cycle and we're looking at a very different picture to the previous two winters. In 2010, for example, much snow fell. However, it came predominantly from the north and east, and with little wind. When the warm weather came it stripped the largely cosmetic, unconsolidated snow.

Deep and uniform snow on the Cairngorm plateau might make for a pretty picture, but what I like to see is 24 hours of intense snow and SW wind, so that when the cloud clears it reveals a hill with a lot of black (i.e. snow-free) ridges. This means that the snow that has fallen has been blown or shifted to the lee side of the hill. Typically to the places where it will last longer.

What you must also remember that, just because no snow is falling even at 1000 ft, it does not mean that it isn't falling as snow higher up. Above 3500 ft (this is a lot of high ground in the Cairngorms and Nevis area) a great deal of snow will fall where it is not at lower levels: even at 2500 ft. This tricks people into thinking that there's 'no snow'. On the contrary, if you were to go up into the higher reaches of Observatory Gully on Ben Nevis at present you'd be looking at snow in excess of 15 metres (50 ft) deep in places.

Oh, and it is only February! We've got potentially another two months of proper winter weather to add to what's already there. March can be a very good month for snow, and even April snow is pretty common on the high hills in Scotland. Winter is far from being over.

With a cold April and start to May I assume early summer must start well for snow patch survival. Any snow patches left in England

Mods a new thread ?

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Posted
  • Location: West leeds, 115m asl
  • Location: West leeds, 115m asl

There should be plenty of snow patches left in England. Was in the lakes the weekend before last and there was plenty of snow up scafell pike down to about 850m.

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Goodness, but it's been a while since I've been over here... Apologies for that!

The current weather across the Highlands as I type is remarkable. Snow is falling at a rate of knots seldom seen even in winter this year. By the time this moisture laden behemoth clears I expect we'll have seen a good top-up to the snow that fell in April and before. I don't know how much if any snow will be deposited south of Hardian's Wall, but I'll keep an eye on that.

Speaking of April, the snow that fell overnight on the 3rd-4th from the north east left BIG deposits all over the upland areas of Wales, northern England and Scotland. In particular, the Peak District had snow lying to around the 3rd May this year, near Shelf Moor. Contrary to what SnOwFeSt wrote in the post above, there aren't plenty of patches left in England. The snow he saw a couple of weeks ago was largely unconsolidated and shallow stuff that fell in April. Also, it fell from the wrong direction (north east). The pictures I've seen of the Lakes recently (couple of days ago) show snow free summits and gullies. The only hill I've seen snow on from the last few days in England is Helvellyn, at Brown Cove (the usual place).

Wales still has quite a bit on the high Carneddau and Snowdon peaks, which should last a wee while yet. A good trip report can be found here: http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21137 I suspect that this could go quite quickly, mind you. I'll keep my contacts primed to get their binoculars out!

April was a cold and wet month, hence the remarkable accumulations that fell. Cairngorm Mountain has re-opened for skiing, and after this latest storm are postulating that there'll be enough to keep them sliding until well into June. Remarkable, and similar to 1955. In this year, the maximum level of cover of snow in the Cairngorms was not recorded until late May.

This year has been a roller-coaster, and I suspect there'll be plenty more of the same. May is also shaping up to be pretty cool, with no mild weather in the pipeline. Mr Corbyn, derided as a bit of a fruit cake, might not be a million miles out in the end!

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Posted
  • Location: Dundee
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, thunderstorms, gales. All extremes except humidity.
  • Location: Dundee

Hi Firefly.

Are you going to start a snow patch thread this year on Netweather?

I know it will be some time, particularly in the Cairngorms, until the snow cover turns to patches but such late snowfall is also of interest at least to me and I suspect others also.

Edited by Norrance
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Posted
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District. 290 mts a.s.l.
  • Weather Preferences: Anything extreme
  • Location: Derbyshire Peak District. 290 mts a.s.l.

Hi Firefly.

Are you going to start a snow patch thread this year on Netweather?

I know it will be some time, particularly in the Cairngorms, until the snow cover turns to patches but such late snowfall is also of interest at least to me and I suspect others also.

And to me too. I look forward to Firefly's account of surviving snow each year. His accounts are as comprehensive as those which used to be published in the Journal of Meteorology in the 70s and 80s.

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Posted
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire

A couple of recent photos I have taken which show the snow cover in the eastern Highlands.

A distant Lochnagar viewed yesterday (Saturday 12 May) across the plateau east of Glen Clova. Lochnagar is 1155m asl, the plateau in the foreground about 800m-850m (most of the ground at this altitude actually had more snow cover than this area, which is quite wind-scoured).

bentirran013.jpg

Edited by spindrift1980
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Posted
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire

This one was taken last Saturday (5 May) and shows Ben Avon in the eastern Cairngorms (1171m). Viewed from a distance yesterday, it seemed to have gained more snow cover in the last week or so.

cularochandcarnliath025.jpg

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Small snow patch still left on SW slope of Mickle Fell, Co Durham

Really? Any pictures? Must be a remnant of the snow that fell on the night of the 3rd/4th April.

And to me too. I look forward to Firefly's account of surviving snow each year. His accounts are as comprehensive as those which used to be published in the Journal of Meteorology in the 70s and 80s.

Too kind, TM! Given the level of interest and kind compliments then I will start one at the end of this month. :)

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The level of cover in the Cairngorms (where I am at present) is exceptional for mid-May. I was up at 3600 ft on Saturday and there were deep fresh drifts, normally associated with March than May. Skiing until June is virtually assured, and as I type more fresh snow has fallen on a westerly wind to the tune of about 6 inches. Very unusual indeed.

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Posted
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire
  • Location: Motherwell, Lanarkshire

Unusual for recent years perhaps (Since the mid 90's) but I bet it would be fairly typical prior to the late 80's.

Although there was undoubtedly more snow in the years up until the late 80s than since, I don't think the current state of play would be regarded as typical even in earlier decades, as I believe that maximum snow depth on the Cairngorm plateaux in most years has historically been reached in April, with a net overall loss of snow cover (as opposed to the current net gain) being well-established by mid-May in many years.

Admittedly I'm going more from what I have read on the subject than personal experience as my hillgoing only started in the mid-90s when I was in my teens, but Adam Watson has published a study of estimated consolidated snow cover on the Ben Macdui plateau from 1947-2010 (albeit on1st June of each year rather than May). He found quite large variations from year-to-year (from 98% on a number of occasions, 97% in 2010, to just 2% in 2003) but no trend from 1947-1986. There has been a trend of decline from 1987 onwards, however, although not statistically significant when the snowier years of 2008-2010 were included. There was an exceptional low trough in the years 2003-2007, with far lower % snow cover in these years than any others. I think last year would also have been very low due to the very warm spring weather despite the cold and snowy first half of winter.

Firefly will no doubt correct anything which I have got wrong in all of this!

Edited by spindrift1980
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Spindrift1980 is quite right when he says that the current level of cover in the Cairngorms is unusual even by the standards of the mid to late 20th century. Comparable years would be 1955, 1968 and 2010. Here's a link to the ski area at Cairn Gorm in May 1968, which is self-explanatory! I believe the level of cover there at present is similar, but I'm no expert on Cairn Gorm! http://www.flickr.com/photos/28183399@N03/3490688193/in/set-72157617462340273

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