Can You Be Objective About Describing Your Winter

[stewfox]

For me this winter so far , if I compare it to the 38yrs of past winters I can remember has been better then average for snow.

2 weeks of lying snow in early Feb , heavy wet snow today (some winters thats all I'd get)

So much I know depends on IMBY

Can some people be 'objective'

Snow is rare for much of low lying areas in uk, settling and long term (1 week plus) of lying snow even rarer.

People suggest its been a 'crap' winter but compared with what Dec 2010 ??

[Polar Maritime]

The fact is most people need to understand that 2010 was a 1/100 year event for the UK as a whole.

Moveing that aside, it has been an average affair for Uk this winter. And i agree that low lying settling snow is very rare.

I do think as you say, most people are comparing winter's now with 2010, instead of looking at the normal winters we are so used to.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Polar Maritime

[recklessabandon]

The number of lying snow days in this part of the world is I think around 20 using Met Office mapping....this year we were at around 5.....so this has been a relatively snowless winter, of as equal, if not greater, significance has been the lack of snow depth even when snow has been lying. I don't have the data but I would be surprised if the seasonal total exceeded 15-20cm

Edited March 4, 2012 by recklessabandon

[Derp Patrol]

A typical winter to be honest. In an average winter I would expect maybe one snow event where there is lying snow.

People have become too ambitious after the last few winters, the reality is that our winters should be mild and wet.

[Stargazer]

According to the MetO maps we'd expect 6-8 days of falling snow and 3-5 of lying snow in an average winter (based on 1971-2000). With 5 of each observed (and realising that it's easy to miss a flurry with a few flakes so the figure for falling snow may be on the low side) it looks like a pretty typical winter for snow here. The one notable thing about this winter has been the extremes, -9.6 to 16.5 deg C, both 10 year records for this location and interestingly both reached in the same month.

[SP1986]

I day of snow fall this winter, 0.5 days of lying snow. This is slightly below average.

Temperature wise, again overall slightly above average but not by much here overall, ground and air frosts below average. Ground frosts more significantly below average than air frost, which both tended to have very little variation between them. This suggests that the frost that did occur were mostly air frost events.

So this winter at least for this location was much closer to average than winters of recent, and the maximums of 17.5C in February were fairly close to the maximum temperature we would expect every 2-3 winters thanks to foehn effects.

The absolute minimum of -5.1C is a little lower than the usual absolute minimum of around -3C we receive in an average winter, but the highest absolute minimum since the 2008-2009 winter.

So all in all, nothing unusual, but still far milder than previous winters.

[dodge]

I didn't collate any stats but I recall 3 occasions of decent lying snow (i.e. were it lasted at least a day after the initial falls), so not a bad winter but by no means a memorable one like Dec 2010 and Jan 2011. I expect that continental freeze in February which tinkered it's tendrals just about to the UK provided a sting in the tail for those people who up to then, would have judged 2011/12 a dissapointing winter.

Edited March 4, 2012 by dodgeredee

[Nights King]

For me I think it has been fairly average temperature wise although snowfall compared to the average has been quite down this winter and one of least snowy winters I remember.

Average snow cover days annual = 14-28 or core winter months 10-18

So 6 days total this winter is rather low statisticaly speaking and I doubt i'll see 3-5 days this march either.

Lowest temperature this winter was -9.7c which is slightly above what i normaly see.

I think we have become a little too ambtious however I think it stings a little having such a below average snowless winter after 4 good winters.

[johnholmes]

The second joint mildest after 2006-7

But a very cold spell in the first 11-12 days of February certainly showed as cold and snowy spell as is 'normal' in this area.

I do think folk should look at the averages for their area and compare this winter to those averages, indeed any season to averages for their area. That might be their own weather station, basic or complex data output or the nearest site you can get data for.

December 2010 as all the statistics from UK Met show was pretty exceptional for any winter month in the last 1-200 years so to compare this winter to that month is not a fair comparison.

[Aaron]

This winter has been 'crap'

January and December had no settling snow at all here. Very little snow falling days. I'm not sure about other low lying places in the UK but here snow not at all 'rare' and the only places I can think of where snow is rare is Penzance and the Scilly Isles.. in fact the only thing rare is having a snowless winter - which, surprise surprise, has never happened. January 2012 was the first January for many years where no snow settle - even January 2008 and January 2007 had settling snow and they were both mild.

We got 15cm in February which saves this winter from being an utter failure.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aaron

[Aaron]

A typical winter to be honest. In an average winter I would expect maybe one snow event where there is lying snow.

People have become too ambitious after the last few winters, the reality is that our winters should be mild and wet.

True, but what type of mild do you mean? If you're referring to the last few days of February then no, that is not typical.

I guess using that logic our summers are supposed to be cool and cloudy - some people think our summers are downright baltic, so before people start hoping for a scorcher this year - remember, that ain't typical! (but then again, this is a weather forum, people can hope)

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aaron

[AderynCoch]

Low-lying snow isn't that rare - "uncommon" is the word I'd use. Most parts of the UK should expect to see at least some snow every winter, and to go through January and February without seeing any is poor even by my own low standards. We also need to differentiate between how common certain synoptics are and whether or not they deliver - this year the synoptics turned very promising at the end of January, but I missed out on the snow and very cold temperatures. While it's not that common to get such synoptics, it's also not that common to miss out when those synoptics actually transpire - so I consider myself terribly unlucky to have missed out. If battleground events had taken place in November 2010, I would have been buried.

Yes, December 2010 was exceptional but that doesn't mean the rampant mildness of the past couple of weeks has been normal. I'm sure one member said they had their first snowless January since 1989. Last winter several members noted how unusually snowless January and February were for their locations. Doesn't sound very normal to me.

We've just become so used to seeing mild weather these past twenty years that we think nothing of it, whereas the cold in recent winters has been seen as a shock to the system.

[Alex95]

It's the places which are normally quite snowy which seem to have done the most poorly this winter. I've only had 3 days of lying snow and a max depth of 2.5cm which is much below average. On average, according to the Met Office, Newcastle gets about 10 days of lying snow each winter, and 20 days of falling sleet/snow.

[Thundery wintry showers]

In the Tyne and Wear area it has been rather less snowy than usual- there have only been 3 mornings with >50% snow cover at Cleadon, while some other parts of the region (the ones that saw snow rather than ice pellets in the first week of February) might have managed a total in the 5-10 day bracket. The 1971-2000 average number of days of snow lying for the winter quarter ranges from about 8 along the coast to about 12 in some inland areas. The number of days with sleet/snow falling was remarkably low in January and February but near average in December.

The areas of central and eastern England that saw one or two significant snowfalls during early February, resulting in a sustained snow cover, had a frequency of snow cover close to the 1971-2000 average, so by this measure there is certainly justification behind some calling it a "normal" winter, although the frequency of sleet/snow falling was below average. Other areas generally had somewhat less snow cover than the long-term normal.

Temperature wise this has been a mild winter- December was fairly cold in parts of Scotland but those same areas had a warm February, while February was fairly cold in parts of central and eastern England but those same areas had a warm December, and January was warm everywhere.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Thundery wintry showers

[stewfox]

Yes, December 2010 was exceptional but that doesn't mean the rampant mildness of the past couple of weeks has been normal. I'm sure one member said they had their first snowless January since 1989. Last winter several members noted how unusually snowless January and February were for their locations. Doesn't sound very normal to me.

We've just become so used to seeing mild weather these past twenty years that we think nothing of it, whereas the cold in recent winters has been seen as a shock to the system.

Then IMBY and how many winters you have seen decide what one calls average, poor or good winter ?.

[J10]

Using my stats, for this winter

Wintry Showers ( but not snow) 6 above local average of 3.1 (1998-2012)

Snow Falling 7 below local average of 9.1 (1998-2012)

Snow Lying* 0 below local average of 8.4 (1998-2012)

Met Office Snow Day 0 below local average of 4.6 (1998-2012)

There have a number of marginal Polar Maritime Westerly to North Westerlies, which have given wintry showers, or rain to snow events, or snow to rain events, with 3 temporary coverings for a few hours.

This is only the 3rd winter since 1998-99 with no proper covering at 9am. [others 1999-2000 and 2007-08].

So overall below average.

* when snow falls and lasts to the following day

[Weather-history]

I use a winter index that I devised and then from that value I can judge on that winter.

[AderynCoch]

Then IMBY and how many winters you have seen decide what one calls average, poor or good winter ?.

I'd say an average winter has at least a couple of days with snow lying and a few more with snow falling. There should be decent spells of mild weather but also decent spells of cold, frosty weather.

We managed one day of lying snow (an inch or so on 16th December), which ironically was completely unexpected with seemingly unfavourable synoptics, and I don't recall any other days when snow fell. December was wet but on the cool side for the first three weeks, with a fair amount of hail and thunder thrown in as well as the aforementioned snowfall - so I wasn't complaining then, even though it was nothing special. Since then though, it's been mostly poor - we had a few clear frosty days in the middle of January and the beginning of February, but apart from that it's been mostly 'nothing' mild weather. Christmas was vomitously mild and of course, there was the abject failure of that cold spell in February, which was feeble here considering how much potential it had.

Based on the above, I wouldn't call this winter dreadful but it's certainly been disappointing, regardless of recent winters.

[Derp Patrol]

True, but what type of mild do you mean? If you're referring to the last few days of February then no, that is not typical.

I guess using that logic our summers are supposed to be cool and cloudy - some people think our summers are downright baltic, so before people start hoping for a scorcher this year - remember, that ain't typical! (but then again, this is a weather forum, people can hope)

Mild as in atlantic dominated. The last few days of February this year, whilst they were rather warmer than what can be considered 'normal' they weren't that unusual, as generally you can get those types of days after the first half of February. Generally a 15C will be reached every February and a 17C maybe every 3 years. The set up of mild days and sunshine in late February is not rare though.

Not the whole of the UK is supposed to have cool and cloudy summers. Generally it will be cloudy in contrast to other countries, but I would not say cool. If you are describing Ireland, Scotland and north west England then yes this is true, but for most of England summer temperatures are in the warm category, especially in south eastern England.

Also, I find that synoptics bringing warm weather in summer are easier to get than synoptics bringing cold weather in winter. In winter you need the right airflow, whereas in summer it can still be warm down here in a northerly flow.

[Aaron]

Temperatures reached 19C at Coleshill, that is anything but normal. 15C can be expected at the usual suspects such as Gravesend but as a general rule it's not normal at all.

And yes, the whole of the UK has cloudy and cool summers. The sunniest place in Britain is Bognor Regis and that would be one of the cloudiest places in Canada or the US. The UK is one of the cloudiest countries on earth. London is quite cloudy, actually very cloudy. I know people who say they wouldn't even take a job in London because it's so cloudy.

And to your last sentence, I'm not sure that's true. I'd happily be proved wrong by someone, such as Mr_Data, but a northerly wind is unlikely to be much above average in terms of temperatures. I remember a northerly wind in July or August last year and I recall it being very cool and wet, just about everywhere.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Aaron

[Derp Patrol]

Temperatures reached 19C at Coleshill, that is anything but normal. 15C can be expected at the usual suspects such as Gravesend but as a general rule it's not normal at all.

And yes, the whole of the UK has cloudy and cool summers. The sunniest place in Britain is Bognor Regis and that would be one of the cloudiest places in Canada or the US. The UK is one of the cloudiest countries on earth. London is quite cloudy, actually very cloudy. I know people who say they wouldn't even take a job in London because it's so cloudy.

And to your last sentence, I'm not sure that's true. I'd happily be proved wrong by someone, such as Mr_Data, but a northerly wind is unlikely to be much above average in terms of temperatures. I remember a northerly wind in July or August last year and I recall it being very cool and wet, just about everywhere.

But the thing is, we suffer because our winters are generally a lot cloudier than most countries. Southern England is closer to France in terms of sunshine hours. I would hardly call average July temperatures of 24C cool either!

Well from local experience, there have been sunny northerlies in May here where it has been in the low 20s, and in Summer a northerly will generally bring sunny skies and temperatures of 21-25C. It's north westerlies that bring the lower temperatures in summer here generally.

[reef]

Winter Indexes for Hedon (1987-2012):

2009/10: 161

2010/11: 121

1995/96: 108

1990/91: 90

2000/01: 70

1993/94: 66

2008/09: 61

2005/06: 54

2003/04: 51

1992/93: 49

2002/03: 48

1996/97: 48

1998/99: 46

2011/12: 43

2004/05: 41

2001/02: 39

1991/92: 39

1994/95: 31

1999/00: 31

1987/88: 28

2007/08: 21

2006/07: 18

1997/98: 16

1989/90: 9

1988/89: 8

Statistically here it was a mild winter as the mean temp was 5.4C (+0.7C). It also the driest and sunniest Ive ever recorded with 71.6mm (43%) and 258 hours (149%).

For wintry weather December and January were abymal, with just one graupel shower on Jan 30th, making it the least snowy Dec/Jan combo since 1988/89. February was much better, with 5 days snow falling and 10 consecutive days with a cover at 0900 making it the snowiest since 1991. 9cm of snow fell on the 4th with a gradual thaw until another 5cm fell on the 9th. Strangely both were from marginal frontal events which are usually pretty unreliable in this location.

The first air frost of the season was on 17th December, since 1981 only 2006/07, 1984/85 and 1986/87 had the first one later. December itself had 2 air frosts, which is below the average of 6, however January was exactly average with 6 days. February was better than normal with 10 days including one at -6.2C, making it the coldest February min since 1991. To make things interesting, the max of 16.2C just 12 days later was the joint second warmest in February and the highest since 1998.

Overall it has been an 'OK' winter, but just like 2010/11 all of the cold weather was concentrated into one month. Personally I prefer a greater mixture with shorter events spread through the winter. Statistically 2003/04 was similar in days of snow lying and air frosts, but the cold events were spread through the three winter months which was much more interesting, less disruptive and also resulted in many more days of snow falling (2011/12 was extremely poor in this regard, at only 6 days - only 4 winters in the last 25 had less).

If Ive any complaint it is of the pattern being stuck in a rut for so long. The Dec/Jan westerlies gave lots of 'usable' but from a weather enthusiast's point of view it was just the same weather day after day - dry, sunny and mild. I enjoyed February a lot with its contrasts (much like 2009), however there was no convective snowfall at all which is a shame.

[BlueHedgehog074]

Overall it has been an 'OK' winter, but just like 2010/11 all of the cold weather was concentrated into one month. Personally I prefer a greater mixture with shorter events spread through the winter. Statistically 2003/04 was similar in days of snow lying and air frosts, but the cold events were spread through the three winter months which was much more interesting, less disruptive and also resulted in many more days of snow falling (2011/12 was extremely poor in this regard, at only 6 days - only 4 winters in the last 25 had less).

Same. One problem with having all the cold weather restricted to one month is if you're a fan of cold/snow, there may not be much else to look forward to throughout Winter (unless all the cold weather occured in the last month of Winter).

Has also been an okayish Winter here. The first part of December offered some fairly cold weather with a mixture of rain and sleety weather, although was let down a bit with the rather mild weather that took over afterwards. Even though it became warmer towards the end of the month, I feel it was a passable start to Winter here.

January was a disappointment, however, with the Birmingham snow shield holding very strong. There had been the odd shower overnight which did manange to weaken it briefly near the beginning of the month, but then January was practically snowless afterwards.

What still makes this Winter a fairly reasonable one, though, was some of the wintry outbreaks occuring throughout the first part of February with one decent dumping of snow.

I think it's true that with what occured during the last two Winter's, I feel our expectations have been heightened, although this will depend on the person and how you preceive Winter.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Rainbow Snow

[Interitus]

And yes, the whole of the UK has cloudy and cool summers. The sunniest place in Britain is Bognor Regis and that would be one of the cloudiest places in Canada or the US. The UK is one of the cloudiest countries on earth. London is quite cloudy, actually very cloudy. I know people who say they wouldn't even take a job in London because it's so cloudy.

.

It's a little bit unfair to compare the maritime climate of a small island with the diverse continental climates of the second and fourth largest countries of the world.

If you actually compare regions like for like you will find that those areas of Canada of a similar latitude to the UK and exposed to an oceanic influence have sunshine values comparable with here.

[mulzy]

Two significant snowfalls - the late evening of 5th February (6cm) and the late evening of 9th February (4cm). Milder air got mixed in soon after the snowfall so only 4 days on lying snow. I know snow lasted longer further East (e.g. Kent and Essex).

So 2 days of significant falling snow and 4 days of lying snow - I guess that's pretty average for London?

It has to be said the 2 week period from 29th Jan to 12th Feb saved this winter from falling into the "terrible" category.

Edited March 5, 2012 by mulzy