Global Warming. What do you expect to see in your lifetime?

[knocker]

Dont shoot the messenger, the independent for me is just as bad as the guardian. Anyway climate scientist did state the above, as for GW faux sceptics comment, there is nothing more faux than bad science dressed up as facts and that is what cli ate science is.

 

Are you actually saying that the hundred of scientists, from different disciplines, who have produced hundreds of peer reviewed papers on climate are guilty of bad science? If so perhaps you could elaborate.

[UV-RAY]

Are you actually saying that the hundred of scientists, from different disciplines, who have produced hundreds of peer reviewed papers on climate are guilty of bad science? If so perhaps you could elaborate.

Indeed I am, the only thing I would say they have right is of CO2 being a greenhouse gas, the rest is compute generated mumbo jumbo, junk in junk out science.Anyhow that's it from me, I've read hundreds and hundreds of peer reviewed science on the subject and not one bit of solid evidence was presented, just conjecture after conjecture. Back to the land of the living now, I'll leave you to wallow in self pity and doom and gloom from herein. Edited April 27, 2013 by Sceptical Inquirer

[BornFromTheVoid]

Dont shoot the messenger, the independent for me is just as bad as the guardian. Anyway climate scientist did state the above, as for GW faux sceptics comment, there is nothing more faux than bad science dressed up as facts and that is what cli ate science is.

 

Is that an admittance that you made false claims about the Met Office climate predictions?

 

Have you really read hundreds and hundreds of peer reviewed papers? Really?

 

I'm beginning to think your all talk and no substance SI!

[Methuselah]

Indeed I am, the only thing I would say they have right is of CO2 being a greenhouse gas, the rest is compute generated mumbo jumbo, junk in junk out science.Anyhow that's it from me, I've read hundreds and hundreds of peer reviewed science on the subject and not one bit of solid evidence was presented, just conjecture after conjecture. Back to the land of the living now, I'll leave you to wallow in self pity and doom and gloom from herein.

Basic, and not so basic, physics can be helpful things to have, too...one thing you do learn, is that the definition of 'junk science' has nothing to do with personal wish-lists...

[stewfox]

Ok, got the article! http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

 

Lets see what the MetO says in it... nothing. Not one mention of the Met Office in the whole piece nor the word "snowless".

 

There was a bit from a UEA CRU scientist saying snow would become rare and cause major disruptions when it does occur in 20 years time.

He also says that "Children just aren't going to know what snow is" which is a silly statement.

 

But no official or unofficial Met Office statements, and no mention of snowless winters by 2013. It seems there was a certain amount of extrapolating based on the short term snowcover trends, which doesn't appear too accurate at the moment, but maybe that will change over the coming decades.

 

The amount of exaggeration and misrepresentation of that Independent article is incredible though!

 

 

If you could direct me towards the guardian piece you mentioned earlier, I'd appreciate it.

 

In the late 1990's and early 2000s there was a almost daily posting in the main stream papers of 'doom and gloom and what the UK would be like in 2020, 2030 2050 etc. I'm not sure if your old enough to remember some. The famous 'leaf on the line' cause by global warming Evening Sandard cira 2003 (I cant find it via google). There were dozens believe me

[pottyprof]

Plants....  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5342578.stm

 

Met office getting it wrong....  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6924898/The-Met-Office-gives-us-the-warmist-weather.html

 

I'm not saying that this is actually from the met office and saying no snow but unless you had your head burred in a sand dune, the story was discussed in many places on the net.

[BornFromTheVoid]

But you've got gardeners (not the met office) and you've a silly little newspapers piece that weighs even more than heavy on the denier conspiracy theorist side of things.

If that's the best that the other side can do, then I'm a little disappointed.

 

Not being in the UK, perhaps I missed all the somewhat balanced sceptic arguments...

[ANYWEATHER]

In the late 1990's and early 2000s there was a almost daily posting in the main stream papers of 'doom and gloom and what the UK would be like in 2020, 2030 2050 etc. I'm not sure if your old enough to remember some. The famous 'leaf on the line' cause by global warming Evening Sandard cira 2003 (I cant find it via google). There were dozens believe me

In respect to all other posters , the met-office for instance BBQ summer  had the making of global warming lipstick spattered all over it. They were issuing seasonal forecasts like this because they believed summers would be or would become hotter and drier. Of course egg on the face just about summed it up. But as you rightly pointed out there has been countless articles over the years starting in the late eighties of doom and gloom. It has not happened. The general public are now detached from such phantom prophecies, and rightly so given all the twaddle we have been given over the years...

[Gray-Wolf]

That's a sad view AW? It's like the folk saying that the Jet is no longer moveing north just because a new pattern is super-imposed over it? Had the sea ice not gone critical , and superimposed the type of extreme N.Hemisphere climate we've seen since 07', I dare say the MetO forcast would have been spot on. As it is a faster acting facett of AGW has swamped the slower GHG warming synoptics, with this period of 'Global Weirding', and folk are trying to say it disproves AGW????

 

Let us see what the next 5 years bring us in terms of 'global climate' before we decide to throw out baby,bathwater and all eh? By that time Prof Francis will have plenty of 'evidence' for what is now occuring and we may well be ice free allowing for a more intense version of the 'tweaked weather' to leave folk in no doubt of what has happened.

 

Have no doubt, once this period of extreme climate settles back down the jet (if still there) will be further north , the tropics will be further toward their poles and temp bands will be even further north than we predicted them to be at that time (due to albedo flip impacts).

Edited April 28, 2013 by Gray-Wolf

[Methuselah]

In respect to all other posters , the met-office for instance BBQ summer had the making of global warming lipstick spattered all over it. They were issuing seasonal forecasts like this because they believed summers would be or would become hotter and drier. Of course egg on the face just about summed it up. But as you rightly pointed out there has been countless articles over the years starting in the late eighties of doom and gloom. It has not happened. The general public are now detached from such phantom prophecies, and rightly so given all the twaddle we have been given over the years...

I think you may have a case of 'Corbynitis' AW?? It seems that his inane witterings, about some global 'Warmist Conspiracy' is a highly infectious complaint...But, still, it ain't as serious as 'Ickeitis'! Say 'aah'... Edited April 28, 2013 by Rybris Ponce

[UV-RAY]

Is that an admittance that you made false claims about the Met Office climate predictions? Have you really read hundreds and hundreds of peer reviewed papers? Really? I'm beginning to think your all talk and no substance SI!

Having read each annual IPCC report I think that more than makes me qualified to comment, you post me something that isn't just conjecture and can show me how those temp rises projected by climate scientist will bear fruit over the coming years. Now I want hard evidence not conjecture BFTV, show me how CO2 overrides water vapour which as you are aware is the largest of all greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. Can you demonstrate all positive and negative feedbacks and how CO2 drives these.

[J10]

Recent surveys have shown that the UK public belief in Global Warming has diminished in recent years.

 

Of course most of the general public are not as much weather nerds as we all are, of course nothing wrong with being a weather nerd.

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7222

[Mr_Pessimistic]

it may well have been discussed already, but doesnt plant life flourish in higher co2 environments?  wouldnt this also mean an increase in oxygen given out by the plants? meaning more and larger animals etc?

 

one thing that can be for certain though is,, i can certnainly expect to see constant unfounded hikes in taxes and the formation of many more so called 'green' taxes! 

[knocker]

Having read each annual IPCC report I

 

That's quite a feat as there aren't any annual; IPCC Assessment Reports. The third was in 2001, the fourth in 2007 and the fifth probably next year.

[UV-RAY]

That's quite a feat as there aren't any annual; IPCC Assessment Reports. The third was in 2001, the fourth in 2007 and the fifth probably next year.

Indeed, obviously a typo.

[Paul]

The point of this thread is to discuss what people expect to see from global warming in their lifetime, so can we get back to that please, and move away from just using it as a place to argue and point score because the news thread has been locked (due to the same problem).

[Methuselah]

it may well have been discussed already, but doesnt plant life flourish in higher co2 environments?  wouldnt this also mean an increase in oxygen given out by the plants? meaning more and larger animals etc?

 

one thing that can be for certain though is,, i can certnainly expect to see constant unfounded hikes in taxes and the formation of many more so called 'green' taxes! 

So, atmospheric CO₂ being already well on the way to doubling, we should already be seeing bumper crops? Why aren't we?

[ANYWEATHER]

So, atmospheric CO₂ being already well on the way to doubling, we should already be seeing bumper crops? Why aren't we?

Well firstly you need the right weather conditions for bumper crops, not extremes of weather!

[Methuselah]

Well firstly you need the right weather conditions for bumper crops, not extremes of weather!

Indeed. But, all assuming that global temperatures are actually static, and that weather-patterns haven't altered that much, over, say, the past 20 years, shouldn't we be seeing evidence of enhanced plant-growth, in response to CO₂ alone, by now?

[be cause]

Indeed. But, all assuming that global temperatures are actually static, and that weather-patterns haven't altered that much, over, say, the past 20 years, shouldn't we be seeing evidence of enhanced plant-growth, in response to CO₂ alone, by now?

Only when temperatures are in the high 20's or above and all other limiting factors ..light,moisture etc are fully satisfied can plants take advantage of increased CO2 in the atmosphere . My original post on this thread predicted blooming deserts ..based on movement of weather patterns and CO2 levels . The rains currently falling on the Arabian desert are causing problems but should result in 'the deserts blooming' and absorbing lots of lovely carbon dioxide Since posting on  Jan 29th there has been rain or snow across deserts world wide 

 In those areas of the world closer to home where temps need to drop for the next ice-age to materialize the last 90 days have been rather cold . It seems I may not need be Methuselah to see my predictions becoming true. ( I'm a lot older than Methusalah anyway ).

 

My original post .. ''Simple answer.. the next ice age and the desert's blooming ''....

[ANYWEATHER]

Indeed. But, all assuming that global temperatures are actually static, and that weather-patterns haven't altered that much, over, say, the past 20 years, shouldn't we be seeing evidence of enhanced plant-growth, in response to CO₂ alone, by now?

Ok, but the weather always has had fluctuations,[ so one year ], and this as history tells us as a bumper crop, the following year quite the opposite! I see nothing in the flora and fauna world to convince me that plant growth is struggling,but quite the opposite to be Honest,I live in the Garden of England, and things grow exceedingly well here, apart from the cold weather stunting the growth!!  

[Mr_Pessimistic]

So, atmospheric CO₂ being already well on the way to doubling, we should already be seeing bumper crops? Why aren't we?

I very much doubt that a doubling of co2 would actually result in a doubling of plant growth. But I thought it was an accepted fact that plants in general prefer lots of co2 as apposed to a o2 rich atmosphere with no co2? I must have been tought wrong at school, they must take in o2 and give out co2.

[Methuselah]

I very much doubt that a doubling of co2 would actually result in a doubling of plant growth. But I thought it was an accepted fact that plants in general prefer lots of co2 as apposed to a o2 rich atmosphere with no co2? I must have been tought wrong at school, they must take in o2 and give out co2.

I don't know all the details, Mr P. I didn't mean to imply that doubling the amount of CO₂, in the air, would double the rate of plant growth, just that such an increase would be expected - all other things remaining unchanged - to promote crop yields, if that 'greening' theory was correct...

Only when temperatures are in the high 20's or above and all other limiting factors ..light,moisture etc are fully satisfied can plants take advantage of increased CO2 in the atmosphere . My original post on this thread predicted blooming deserts ..based on movement of weather patterns and CO2 levels . The rains currently falling on the Arabian desert are causing problems but should result in 'the deserts blooming' and absorbing lots of lovely carbon dioxide Since posting on  Jan 29th there has been rain or snow across deserts world wide 

 In those areas of the world closer to home where temps need to drop for the next ice-age to materialize the last 90 days have been rather cold . It seems I may not need be Methuselah to see my predictions becoming true. ( I'm a lot older than Methusalah anyway ).

 

My original post .. ''Simple answer.. the next ice age and the desert's blooming ''....

I did mean 'globally'... 

[Gray-Wolf]

So.... In my lifetime I expect to see a further hike in CO2, the crop plants , which do not favour increased CO2 levels by the way with yield drops reported from high CO2 levels, will continue to be blighted in areas that we used to view as 'grain basket ' areas due to 'global weirding' (as exteme weather events continue to scour the northern hemisphere bringing drought,flood, cold , heat) driven by natures responces to GHG driven warming.

 

I expect to see sea level rises that render most oil terminals useless and impact major cities based on the coasts or lowest bridging points of major rivers.

 

I expect to see ice free Arctic year round and the West Antarctic ice sheet in a state of collapse with Greenlands mass loss doubling over a 5 year period (prior to losing 1/3 of the ice cover). I hope not to see the collapse of ross embayment as this will signal both the opening of an ocean channel between east and west Antarctica but also allow mass losss from east Antarctica to begin in earnest (most of the ocean terminating drain glaciaers are held back by Ross).

 

I expect politicians to do nothing until their population force them to act and expect many whining noises from folk who do not wish to spend money to secure the childrens future.....

[ANYWEATHER]

So.... In my lifetime I expect to see a further hike in CO2, the crop plants , which do not favour increased CO2 levels by the way with yield drops reported from high CO2 levels, will continue to be blighted in areas that we used to view as 'grain basket ' areas due to 'global weirding' (as exteme weather events continue to scour the northern hemisphere bringing drought,flood, cold , heat) driven by natures responces to GHG driven warming.

 

I expect to see sea level rises that render most oil terminals useless and impact major cities based on the coasts or lowest bridging points of major rivers.

 

I expect to see ice free Arctic year round and the West Antarctic ice sheet in a state of collapse with Greenlands mass loss doubling over a 5 year period (prior to losing 1/3 of the ice cover). I hope not to see the collapse of ross embayment as this will signal both the opening of an ocean channel between east and west Antarctica but also allow mass losss from east Antarctica to begin in earnest (most of the ocean terminating drain glaciaers are held back by Ross).

 

I expect politicians to do nothing until their population force them to act and expect many whining noises from folk who do not wish to spend money to secure the childrens future.....

GW...I respect your viewpoint..but I will keep your post and see where we are in some years down the road,,,Your posts are the extreme the worst case scenario,Dooms day TBH!, personally I think the opposite. !!!

Edited April 28, 2013 by ANYWEATHER