Thin ice...watch it free 22nd/23rd April

[Gray-Wolf]

http://thiniceclimate.org/watch-the-film

 

This is for all the sceptics out there. watch a clever chap ask the right questions to the right folk and see what conclusion you are left with.

 

Thanks to john Mason we also can now watch Chasing Ice;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajFoSPgCtpw

[Gray-Wolf]

I bet not one of the folk searching for 'Undeniable Proof' (on the other threads) dare watch it!!!

[Lettucing Gutted]

Stage 4 Global Warming here we come!

[ANYWEATHER]

I bet not one of the folk searching for 'Undeniable Proof' (on the other threads) dare watch it!!!

Well Im gonna watch it.....!

[Gray-Wolf]

So what did folk think of both the 'style' and the info the film brought to us?

[Tamara]

I bet not one of the folk searching for 'Undeniable Proof' (on the other threads) dare watch it!!!

Why?  It simply represents an opinion and people can make up their own minds

[BornFromTheVoid]

Watched "thin ice" and "chasing ice" yesterday.

 

Thin Ice, a good look at the actual people doing the science. Hopefully it can show people the more human side of the science, rather than the lefty, gravy train riding, grand fraudster so many have been convinced of recently.

 

Chasing Ice was beautiful. Absolutely stunning imagery and scenes of change. It does get a bit preachy at times, but the photos and video they captured more than make up for it. The dedication that guy has to getting the right shot is incredible.

As a slightly more unbiased review, I showed Chasing Ice to my girlfriend, who's studying photography, and she loved it! Mainly for the stunning images and Balogs drive.

 

Why?  It simply represents an opinion and people can make up their own minds

 

It's a documentary on the scientists carrying out the research. A chance to see if they appear to be the scum made out to be by the climate denial propaganda groups!

[Gray-Wolf]

That is exactly the point BFTV. Folk seem to have 'de-humanised' a group of hard working individuals so that they can reinforce their own opinions and, for me, that is just not on!

 

The physical work and the level of deprivation the science teams are willing to endure to find answers surely shows the 'gravy train' critics just how uninformed they are on the matter?

 

The science is presented in a way that even 'o'level science understanding is enough to see how the 'proxy' measures work and how robust the data is?

 

As for chasing ice? I'm crippled enough to limit my excursions but to be on your 4th knee surgery just to allow you to continue to bring us all this amazing view of the impacts of climate shift. to also bring ,into clear focus, just how rapidly this change is now occurring.

 

We have to realise that the pace of change is so swift now that, since the films were being made, the impact of change has increased further. if you think what was being shown in the films was bad just run back over the past two years of events/new papers to see how much has changed since.

 

I was hoping, myself, that the movies would bring a semblance of stability back to my current , heightened, concerns about 'change'. Sadly they did not.

 

I'd much prefer to end the year still viewed as the whacky doomsayer but fear that circumstances over summer will remove some of the 'extremism' from my observations.

 

There it is, heads on the line. either my fears are grounded or I've gone plain whacky......time and yourselves judge (the amount of deletions I'm currently suffering makes me feel management has already taken a view!!!)

[barrel1234]

I just watched it and enjoyed it a lot.  Fantastic scenes and photography. They are very hardworking and I believe sincere individuals.

 

  However, It is based on opinion that C02 is driving climate, and there was no reference to things like solar cycles and solar activity. I feel the featured glaciers from the batch they were recording were cherry picked and there was no reference to any glaciers in his sample that had smaller changes.   i don't doubt his glacier research because seeing is believing, but climate is always changing and there is no certainty that the glaciers featured will continue to reduce in size.

 

    Few would argue that temps have not increased over the last century but in recent years temps have flat lined if not decreased.... it all depends where you start the data sample!    I read that the AMO has around a 50 year cycle so that would fit in very well with whats happening in the arctic. I personally still don't think we have a problem outside natural variability.

[BornFromTheVoid]

I just watched it and enjoyed it a lot.  Fantastic scenes and photography. They are very hardworking and I believe sincere individuals.

 

  However, It is based on opinion that C02 is driving climate, and there was no reference to things like solar cycles and solar activity. I feel the featured glaciers from the batch they were recording were cherry picked and there was no reference to any glaciers in his sample that had smaller changes.   i don't doubt his glacier research because seeing is believing, but climate is always changing and there is no certainty that the glaciers featured will continue to reduce in size.

 

    Few would argue that temps have not increased over the last century but in recent years temps have flat lined if not decreased.... it all depends where you start the data sample!    I read that the AMO has around a 50 year cycle so that would fit in very well with whats happening in the arctic. I personally still don't think we have a problem outside natural variability.

 

Are you referring to chasing ice? I think they did mention some stats with regard the some glaciers growing, while most melt.

There primary aim was to capture the dramatic change in the glaciers, so you can't really blame them for picking those changing the most!

[Gray-Wolf]

This was something I touched on above Barrel. Maybe we should be looking at the extra energy we have coming  on the planet today and not rely on air temps alone? Over the period air temp increases have slowed ocean temp increases have acellerated (and 90% of the 'extra energy' is going into the oceans) . When we look atr things in such a 'broader sense' we can see the 'illusion' that the deniers want to create to bring discord and debate to a science that is 'settled' (in terms of what is causing our changes)

 

I've seen the icreases in energy broken down into Hiroshima type bombs per second and it appears that we have around 4 of these devises going off a second to put as much extra energy into the climate system as we are measuring today. to me that appears like a lot of extra energy!

[barrel1234]

This was something I touched on above Barrel. Maybe we should be looking at the extra energy we have coming  on the planet today and not rely on air temps alone? Over the period air temp increases have slowed ocean temp increases have acellerated (and 90% of the 'extra energy' is going into the oceans) . When we look atr things in such a 'broader sense' we can see the 'illusion' that the deniers want to create to bring discord and debate to a science that is 'settled' (in terms of what is causing our changes)

 

I've seen the icreases in energy broken down into Hiroshima type bombs per second and it appears that we have around 4 of these devises going off a second to put as much extra energy into the climate system as we are measuring today. to me that appears like a lot of extra energy!

 

 

    GW  I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the AMO and why maybe you think it wont have a big impact when (presumably when and not IF) it shifts because I can't remember if you have touched on this much in the past. apologies if we are going off topic but i would have thought that the AMO would likely be one of the biggest factors or Ice growth/recession in the arctic including glaciers in Greenland and Iceland.

[barrel1234]

SST Anomalies seem to differ a fair bit depending on where you get your data from.   Its true that there has been some extremely stubborn high anomalies in the arctic in recent years especially earlier this year when there was a line of high anoms all the way across the hight lattitudes of the Atlantic.

 

on this map sst anomalies seem to have calmed down a bit but still has some very high sst anoms over some of the arctic area including south greenland.

 

 

http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2013/anomnight.4.22.2013.gif

 

  A switch to lower N Atlantic sst temps surely could be a diving force and a very rapid driving force of Ice growth in general for all arctic regions.   After watching global sst anoms for quite sometime I have seen pretty big changes happen in relatively short periods of time.

[Gray-Wolf]

I'm not well schooled on the AMO but , in the past, it did seem to show some correlation with the bahaviours of ice on the planet?

 

I am of the opinion today that we have seen too radical an alteration to ice levels (esp, across the Arctic) for us to rely on that correlation any more? I know it is not a favoured phrase with some folk on the site but I believe we have passed a 'Tipping Point' in the Arctic Basin and that the process there is now self fueling? If we see further record being broken there this coming melt season I will be even more convinced that we have passed a 'point of no return' for the ice there.

 

Loss of Arctic ice will mean further impacts across the region and those , in their turn, will impavt the greater climate system eventually reaching ,and impacting, the Antarctic.

 

I know we all come from differing viewpoints but we must all concede that the extent of changes in the Arctic today has no recent parallel in the paleo record and somust accept that it excedes all of our natural forcings (and novel combinations of).

 

Furthermore as our oceans continue to accept this vast new energy resource (new to our 'old' climate systems workings that is) overturning currenst will increasingly bring 'warmth' to the atmophere (even the cold upwellings once ocean heating has significantly impacted temps at depth) and so bring 'novel' forcings to the ones we currently study/understand. When we look at the PDO phases the 'milding out' of this present PDO-ve is starting to become very apparent (when compared to past -ve phases) and this , in turn must bring impact to the ENSO cycles (La Nada bacoming the new La Nina?).

 

We are told that once the Arctic turns ice free that this state will rapidly extend into the summer season. this will bring massive amounts of energy to bare on the climate system. If we a re a decade or less from being 'ice free' then we may be less than 2 decades from being ice free throughout the 24hr sun period across the basin (same incoming energy as at the equator) and that forcing must prove greater than any of the ways the planet currently uses to re-distribute energy around the globe?

 

The world is altering far faster than most folk know (faster than some are willing to accept?) so such radical changes will be seen well within our lifetimes. The whole AGW debate has shifted from being a theory on future events to a commentary on current ones?