Whats after death?

[Bobby]

Where we find out how cheap and worthless were the things we loved...

 

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,To the last syllable of recorded time;And all our yesterdays have lighted foolsThe way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,And then is heard no more. It is a taleTold by an idiot, full of sound and fury,Signifying nothing.

 

- William Shakespeare

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bobby

[mushymanrob]

We are all made up of energy and it scientifically proven that energy does not disappear.  It has to go somewhere.  So when we die that energy has to be released somewhere

 

where does the light go to when you turn off the switch?

 

some years ago i watched a tv documentary on people who experienced life when ww1 was on. this lady being interviewed told us of her little gang, of her her two brothers and their (boy) pal... when ww1 broke out and they entlisted, the guys made a pact, that if they got killed, they would come back to the girl in some way, and give her a sign that there is life after death. unfortunately one by one they all perished..... the documentary interview was in the 90's, her last words (on the interview) were "im still waiting" .

 

in saying that, and logic dictating theres nothing... the universe is becoming a far far more complex entity then what we first thought. as science and discovery open new doors to greater possibilities. as i see it, IF there is something else, its not for us to understand, its not within the limits of our scientific knowlege (to date) and its not like any religious book suggests it is.

 

i do think though that human nature, emotion, gets in the way of rational thought. we love our lives too much, we know life is delicately balanced, we know we will die...and its facing upto that fact that is hard to face, maybe believing in something else is nothing more then a comfort to distract the inevitable that you and me will one day die.

[Coast]

Nothing.

 

Maybe some bills to settle by relatives, that's all.

[mike Meehan]

Why is is it so dificuclt to accept you die and that's it?  The rest is a load of twoddle.

Knocker, how can you possibly know that the rest is a load of twoddle? - as a previous poller has said, 'Prove it'.

[Methuselah]

Knocker, how can you possibly know that the rest is a load of twoddle? - as a previous poller has said, 'Prove it'.

You'd have thought that the onus to prove anything lies with those who make the most extraordinary claims, Mike? There's nothing extraordinary in saying that there's nothing after death...It is, after all, a perfectly logical stance and one that is supported by the evidence, such as it is...

 

Whilst Occam's razor is not always right, it usually points us in the right direction...

[Downburst]

We are all made up of energy and it scientifically proven that energy does not disappear.  It has to go somewhere.  So when we die that energy has to be released somewhere

Yes it does, into carbon dioxide and other gases, carbon cycle with your carbon atoms, minerals into the soil or furnace,heat loss, all the energy goes into other physical systems, fully understood that equation. It amazes me reading earlier threads how much meandering happens on the simple fact that you will die and that's it. The point is that you are now a livening organism who has obtained their unbroken life from beings that lived before for over a billion years. What's hard to understand about that? that's the amazing thing. Why the selfish look for an afterlife? Presumably an afterlife set in the 21st century like the Americans believe? with a national Anthem. Afterlife was created to escape the pain of this life when we lose someone, that's the purpose, a fairy story sold by fantasists and worse.

[Bobby]

I think the only two sensible positions are that there is something after death (a theist stance say), or that we don't know (an agnostic stance). To say definitively that there is nothing (an atheist stance) makes no sense, we cannot feel or know 'nothing', 'nothing' reveals nothing to us. And unless we know everything we cannot definitively say there is nothing after death. An agnostic stance is fair enough, you admit you don't know and that's at least honest. A theist stance makes sense because the only way to know what lays beyond is to have perfect knowledge, to be omniscient, but if there is an all knowing God that communicates to us truth then we could share in this omniscience and could have a claim to truly know.

[pward]

To say definitively that there is nothing (an atheist stance) makes no sense, we cannot feel or know 'nothing', 'nothing' reveals nothing to us. 

We may not be able to feel or know 'nothing' but it exists…what can you remember from before you were born?

[mushymanrob]

 if there is an all knowing God that communicates to us truth

 

...then hes doing a  p poor job!

 

he can create a whole universe, at least 1 planet with an incredible variety of life, systems to support this variety of life (weather, tides, ocean currents, varying geology, topography etc), exact detail in life forms from the largest to the smallest microbes ... and he then fails to communicate his message with the same attention to detail, unambiguity, clarity, which he applied to 'creation'.

Edited September 11, 2013 by mushymanrob

[Methuselah]

I think the only two sensible positions are that there is something after death (a theist stance say), or that we don't know (an agnostic stance). To say definitively that there is nothing (an atheist stance) makes no sense, we cannot feel or know 'nothing', 'nothing' reveals nothing to us. And unless we know everything we cannot definitively say there is nothing after death. An agnostic stance is fair enough, you admit you don't know and that's at least honest. A theist stance makes sense because the only way to know what lays beyond is to have perfect knowledge, to be omniscient, but if there is an all knowing God that communicates to us truth then we could share in this omniscience and could have a claim to truly know.

I'm too sure about that, Bobby: surely if one can accept the Life-After-Death Hypothesis (for which there's no supporting evidence), one can just as easily accept the opposite position, that there's nothing (for which there can never be any proof)?

 

I'm one of those sad individuals who hopes that there is something but who, at the same time, considers it highly unlikely in the extreme...

 

Either way, I'm in no particular hurry to find out! 

Edited September 11, 2013 by A Boy Named Sue
wrong hypothesis...

[Cheshire Freeze]

I'm too sure about that, Bobby: surely if one can accept the Life-After-Death Hypothesis (for which there's no supporting evidence), one can just as easily accept the opposite position, that there's nothing (for which there can never be any proof)?

 

I'm one of those sad individuals who hopes that there is something but who, at the same time, considers it highly unlikely in the extreme...

 

Either way, I'm not very eager to find out! 

 

Life is bittersweet. For all the trials and tribulations that go with it, there is something which keeps us hooked and not wanting to die (the good moments/family etc etc). I would imagine death as being like going to sleep but without the dreams and waking up again. No-one will be 'aware' they've died IMO.

Edited September 11, 2013 by CreweCold

[IanR]

we would all have never existed if it were not for that hot ball of fire that some people here wish to be diminished or gone. its needs  be worshiped, not wished away, you ungrateful lot

 

I will get my coat

[cheese]

In my mind, it's like an eternal dreamless sleep.. nothingness.. perhaps that is why I disliked sleeping as a child - it felt like I was dying for 8 hours.. lol.

Edited September 11, 2013 by cheese

[Methuselah]

There's always the possibility that, as we approach death, our perception of time's passage alters and creates an illusion of eternity?

[mike Meehan]

You'd have thought that the onus to prove anything lies with those who make the most extraordinary claims, Mike? There's nothing extraordinary in saying that there's nothing after death...It is, after all, a perfectly logical stance and one that is supported by the evidence, such as it is...

 

Whilst Occam's razor is not always right, it usually points us in the right direction...

Sorry ABNS,

 

But as I mentioned in a previous post there are so many things we do not know about such as dark matter and dark energy - apart from the indications given through the effects of gravity we haven't really got the foggiest what they are or what they consist of.

 

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that two items - I will say 'matter' for want of a better description - operating of different wave lengths to occupy the same space at the same time - after all there are some very strange happenings in quantum physics.

 

The days have moved on since we looked at everything in the strict physical sense and quite literally we are finding out that the more we know the more there is to know, so in my view subjects such as these are best approached with a little humility and an open mind - after all this is the best approach for a scientific investigation and who knows, one day our scientists and brilliant minds may achieve a method of investigating this subject scientifically - I just hope I am able to come back and see it all happen.

[wimblettben]

Atheist view:

 

 

 

Theist Christian view:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wylNswLMYdw

 

And most interesting, a view that has an afterlife that is different from everything else:

 

[A.J]

Sorry ABNS,

 

But as I mentioned in a previous post there are so many things we do not know about such as dark matter and dark energy - apart from the indications given through the effects of gravity we haven't really got the foggiest what they are or what they consist of.

 

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that two items - I will say 'matter' for want of a better description - operating of different wave lengths to occupy the same space at the same time - after all there are some very strange happenings in quantum physics.

 

The days have moved on since we looked at everything in the strict physical sense and quite literally we are finding out that the more we know the more there is to know, so in my view subjects such as these are best approached with a little humility and an open mind - after all this is the best approach for a scientific investigation and who knows, one day our scientists and brilliant minds may achieve a method of investigating this subject scientifically - I just hope I am able to come back and see it all happen.

hmm,the 'many-worlds' quantum theory of the Multiverse.......an infinite number of parallel universes in which every physical quantum state exists an infinite number of times....If this hypothesis was ever verified in the future then it would prove a type of 'eternal life' where somewhere in the multiverse in every possible timespan there is an alternate version of you

Edited September 11, 2013 by ajpoolshark

[Methuselah]

hmm,the 'many-worlds' quantum theory of the Multiverse.......an infinite number of parallel universes in which every physical quantum state exists an infinite number of times....If this hypothesis was ever verified in the future then it would prove a type of 'eternal life' where somewhere in the multiverse in every possible timespan there is an alternate version of you

And one of them lives forever?

[wimblettben]

Like what ajpoolshark said it is possible that in terms of percieved experiences they never end and as a result the only thing that goes away would be your memory of your previous exsistence.

 

Since in reality real nothing(not blackness) cannot even be percieved then it is inevitable that people will find it difficult to imagine dying into nothingness and so make up images in there head of more possible experiences.

 

Don't forget that a lot of people imagine actual nothing (Unconsciousness,death) as silent blackness, but it wouldn't even be that in reality. So no wonder this type of thinking leads people into developing headaches!

Edited September 11, 2013 by wimblettben

[Crepuscular Ray]

hmm,the 'many-worlds' quantum theory of the Multiverse.......an infinite number of parallel universes in which every physical quantum state exists an infinite number of times....If this hypothesis was ever verified in the future then it would prove a type of 'eternal life' where somewhere in the multiverse in every possible timespan there is an alternate version of you

I now have a mental image of infinite Arnold/Ace Rimmers from Red Dwarf...

[mountain shadow]

You will find the answer in Revelation Chapter 21, verses 10-27.

Only for believers though. Not sure i will meet many Netweather members on the other side.

Edited September 11, 2013 by mountain shadow

[A.J]

And one of them lives forever?

no not forever Pete, read my post again mate, in the many worlds hypothesis there are an infinite number of "you's" occupying every passage of time....in other words, there is never a time when there isn't a version of you in existance!

[Bobby]

...then hes doing a  p poor job!

 

he can create a whole universe, at least 1 planet with an incredible variety of life, systems to support this variety of life (weather, tides, ocean currents, varying geology, topography etc), exact detail in life forms from the largest to the smallest microbes ... and he then fails to communicate his message with the same attention to detail, unambiguity, clarity, which he applied to 'creation'.

 

As C.S. Lewis put it...

 

If you are a geologist studying rocks, you have to go and find the rocks. They will not come to you, and if you go to them they cannot run away. The initiative lies all on your side. They cannot either help or hinder. But suppose you are a zoologist and want to take photos of wild animals in their native haunts. That is a bit different from studying rocks. The wild animals will not come to you: but they can run away from you. Unless you keep very quiet, they will. There is beginning to be a tiny little trace of initiative on their side.

 

Now a stage higher; suppose you want to get to know a human person. If he is determined not to let you, you will not get to know him. You have to win his confidence. In this case the initiative is equally divided—it takes two to make a friendship.

 

When you come to knowing God, the initiative lies on His side. If He does not show Himself, nothing you can do will enable you to find Him. And, in fact, He shows much more of Himself to some people than to others—not because He has favourites, but because it is impossible for Him to show Himself to a man whose whole mind and character are in the wrong condition. Just as sunlight, though it has no favourites, cannot be reflected in a dusty mirror as clearly as a clean one.

 

You can put this another way by saying that while in other sciences the instruments you use are things external to yourself (things like microscopes and telescopes), the instrument through which you see God is your whole self. And if a man's self is not kept clean and bright, his glimpse of God will be blurred—like the Moon seen through a dirty telescope.

[wimblettben]

As C.S. Lewis put it...

 

If you are a geologist studying rocks, you have to go and find the rocks. They will not come to you, and if you go to them they cannot run away. The initiative lies all on your side. They cannot either help or hinder. But suppose you are a zoologist and want to take photos of wild animals in their native haunts. That is a bit different from studying rocks. The wild animals will not come to you: but they can run away from you. Unless you keep very quiet, they will. There is beginning to be a tiny little trace of initiative on their side.

 

Now a stage higher; suppose you want to get to know a human person. If he is determined not to let you, you will not get to know him. You have to win his confidence. In this case the initiative is equally divided—it takes two to make a friendship.

 

When you come to knowing God, the initiative lies on His side. If He does not show Himself, nothing you can do will enable you to find Him. And, in fact, He shows much more of Himself to some people than to others—not because He has favourites, but because it is impossible for Him to show Himself to a man whose whole mind and character are in the wrong condition. Just as sunlight, though it has no favourites, cannot be reflected in a dusty mirror as clearly as a clean one.

 

You can put this another way by saying that while in other sciences the instruments you use are things external to yourself (things like microscopes and telescopes), the instrument through which you see God is your whole self. And if a man's self is not kept clean and bright, his glimpse of God will be blurred—like the Moon seen through a dirty telescope.

I could see this being possible.

 

Would explain why there are some people that spend a large amount of their life in drugs,pornography,binge drinking ect, and end up becoming religious and find hope and purpose and end up living better more fullfiling lives.

 

Of course it could just be a numed pleasure response causing people to become depressed so they try to find something that gives them more purpose. But who knows!

[wimblettben]

Do you remember anything before you were born? In answer - Same rules apply

That is quite likely based on our most recent observations of the phisycal world.

 

But don't forget that you didn't exist before you were born but when you have been alive in this world then you have existed. So death isn't quite the same thing.

 

You could have been somwhere before but had your memories lost when you came into this life. Nothingness could basically be the same as memory loss in terms of how we percieve it.