Whats after death?

[joggs]

Glad i started this topic,some interesting musings lol.

[Crepuscular Ray]

You will find the answer in Revelation Chapter 21, verses 10-27.Only for believers though. Not sure i will meet many Netweather members on the other side.

Apparently the pope disagrees and thinks it's possible for non-believers to get to heaven, somewhat undermining the whole "You must believe or you'll go to hell" thing they've been peddling for a couple of millenia.

[mike Meehan]

And one of them lives forever?

If it were the case of there being an infinite number of multiverse a surely the moving from one to another as we progress would have the same effect of an eternal life.

[snow raven]

This for me is a horrible subject, being someone that is scared of dying... my only comfort is that no one knows what happens to the spirit after death. I choose to believe we are re-united with loved ones.

[wimblettben]

It does seem that the original origins of the universe are going to take us many years to even remotely get close to actually explaining how it did so, and with any form of evidence and not just based on theories.

 

It doesn't make sense that everything would end and never come back if there is something rather than nothing right now. It more logically seems that there is a form of infinity if there is nothing supernatural about it. Or that nothing really doesn't exist and there is and always was something to begin with. There is no beginning or end but rather transitions.

 

If reality is only about nature or natural laws and nothing else, then the above really does make the most logical sense.

[knocker]

This for me is a horrible subject, being someone that is scared of dying... my only comfort is that no one knows what happens to the spirit after death. I choose to believe we are re-united with loved ones.

 

What on earth s the spirit? I sincerely hope I'm not re-united with my ex mother-in-law

[wimblettben]

We are Thought  and this exists before and outside of matter . Anyone who has had an 'out of body' experience knows that they are not dependent on their body to experience existence . This alone would imply the probability of  'life after death ' could be high !

 

I was telling my optician about my experience of both dying and leaving my body only this afternoon !

 

A few years ago I was at a prayer/meditation group when I realized I had forgotton my body for what seemed like ages . Then I was floating above what looked like an old western scene .. sort of keeping an eye on a train from far above and behind . As it turned gently into a wide canyon it started to derail ! It became the centre of my attention but the closer I got the more unreal the scene became .. then I looked up the canyon .  A wall reached as high as I could see but as soon as I thought ,I was looking over it  !

 

 There was nothing to see .. blackness .. no stars no rest of a planet .. there was an end . A symbolic train going nowhere had derailed .  I wondered if I was dead and instantly I was observing the scene in the room I was in .. Panic as my stiff lifeless body refused to respond . I was looking down on the scene again from above 

Then I spoke and my voice came out of my body .. telling folk not to worry . Next I was off having an arguement with God over forgiveness . Pointless  but I did keep going between these realms for a while .. popping back to the room every now and then  still apparently 'dead' ,still able to speak though !

 

 The instant response to thought was shocking . At one point back in the room I remembered conception .. and as my thought 'entered the womb of the nearest woman she doubled up in agony begging me to stop . As my thought left her body I was saying sorry to her .. and I was back at the wall across creation !

 

My choice became clear ,I could accept forgveness is total and unconditional or I could continue life without the shell of the body I inhabit .  To the suprise of me and everyone else in the room I came back into my body shouting ' Hari Krisna '  'Hari Krisna ' ! It felt like pushing myself through a strainer ..pushing my life back into a body I had vacated 40 minutes earlier !

 

Because of this and other less dramatic 'proofs' of all creation being One and we being one with All Creation I stepped out last night for a walk under stars and trees  I told the universe I would expect 3 shooting stars .. they each came at the perfect moment  and placement in response to my  whispered conversation of praise to existence . adding more proof to my pudding  !

You should visit Bob Olsons Afterlife TV channel on youtube and check out some of his videos.

 

Very interesting NDE accounts, and they would fit in more with our current scientific views of existence then many of the worlds religious teachings.

[snow raven]

What on earth s the spirit? I sincerely hope I'm not re-united with my ex mother-in-law

Well in your case the spirit is a bottle of wiskey

[knocker]

Well in your case the spirit is a bottle of wiskey

 

[mike Meehan]

Well in your case the spirit is a bottle of wiskey

As for me it's Jameson's

[mike Meehan]

As one of the old uns on this forum I am probably nearer finding the answer than most - now if the E-Mail were to work on the same system in the afterlife I would post the result on this here but somehow I suspect the systems may be incompatible.

[mushymanrob]

As C.S. Lewis put it...

 

If you are a geologist studying rocks, you have to go and find the rocks. They will not come to you, and if you go to them they cannot run away. The initiative lies all on your side. They cannot either help or hinder. But suppose you are a zoologist and want to take photos of wild animals in their native haunts. That is a bit different from studying rocks. The wild animals will not come to you: but they can run away from you. Unless you keep very quiet, they will. There is beginning to be a tiny little trace of initiative on their side.

 

Now a stage higher; suppose you want to get to know a human person. If he is determined not to let you, you will not get to know him. You have to win his confidence. In this case the initiative is equally divided—it takes two to make a friendship.

 

When you come to knowing God, the initiative lies on His side. If He does not show Himself, nothing you can do will enable you to find Him. And, in fact, He shows much more of Himself to some people than to others—not because He has favourites, but because it is impossible for Him to show Himself to a man whose whole mind and character are in the wrong condition. Just as sunlight, though it has no favourites, cannot be reflected in a dusty mirror as clearly as a clean one.

 

You can put this another way by saying that while in other sciences the instruments you use are things external to yourself (things like microscopes and telescopes), the instrument through which you see God is your whole self. And if a man's self is not kept clean and bright, his glimpse of God will be blurred—like the Moon seen through a dirty telescope.

 

sorry but thats nonsense... and goes against everything the bible preaches (which tells us that anyone can find god). what person on earth has ever not thought about god? wanted to know whether 'he' exists? who hasnt asked the question? and why did he create us just to allow falibility to damn some of us to eternal hell?..

 

as a loving parent would you put your loved child in peril then damn them if they get it wrong? i love my kids and will never turn my back on them no matter how often they get it wrong... how often they disobeyed me, if they get it wrong then I havnt taught them properly....

 

..... and who really wants to live forever? can you imagine that? really?...

[laserguy]

We are all made up of energy and it scientifically proven that energy does not disappear.  It has to go somewhere.  So when we die that energy has to be released somewhere

 

All that electrical energy which gives us the spark of life has to be discharged somewhere....  all the souls who depart this plane on a daily basis accumulate in the atmosphere, coalesce and give us lightning and thunder. Stuff all that updraught,downdraft and ions malarkey.

[wimblettben]

 

sorry but thats nonsense... and goes against everything the bible preaches (which tells us that anyone can find god). what person on earth has ever not thought about god? wanted to know whether 'he' exists? who hasnt asked the question? and why did he create us just to allow falibility to damn some of us to eternal hell?..

 

as a loving parent would you put your loved child in peril then damn them if they get it wrong? i love my kids and will never turn my back on them no matter how often they get it wrong... how often they disobeyed me, if they get it wrong then I havnt taught them properly....

 

..... and who really wants to live forever? can you imagine that? really?...

Don't forget though that the experiences would be far more enhanced in the afterlife then what we have here.

 

If a heaven existed then negative feelings such as boredom would never occour.

[Methuselah]

So long as I don't end-up in that 'wonderful' place that's depicted on the Watch Tower magazine, I'll be happy enough...the idea of spending eternity with trillions of idealized  Americans (with their ever-grinning perfect teeth) makes me cringe!

[Bobby]

 

sorry but thats nonsense... and goes against everything the bible preaches (which tells us that anyone can find god). what person on earth has ever not thought about god? wanted to know whether 'he' exists? who hasnt asked the question? and why did he create us just to allow falibility to damn some of us to eternal hell?..

 

as a loving parent would you put your loved child in peril then damn them if they get it wrong? i love my kids and will never turn my back on them no matter how often they get it wrong... how often they disobeyed me, if they get it wrong then I havnt taught them properly....

 

..... and who really wants to live forever? can you imagine that? really?...

 

They can find God, they just have to want to find him. Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given to you, knock and it will be opened for you. The main thing that clouds and blurs our ability to find God is pride, you could say that's the only thing. God cannot fill that which is already full.

 

As for the idea of Hell, that's something we choose for ourselves. If we choose to seperate ourvelves from God and live in darkness then that's what we'll get. If we choose to be with him then that's what we'll get. God doesn't send anyone to hell, that's something we do for ourselves. The door to heaven or hell is locked from the inside.

 

As he himself put it:

 

Jesus said: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.  This is the verdict: light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.  But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." - John 3:16-21

 

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[jtay]

So you're saying...

Some people stand in darkness, afraid to step into the light.

[Methuselah]

All the God stuff is okay, but it doesn't answer the question: what's after death?

[jtay]

All the God stuff is okay, but it doesn't answer the question: what's after death?

Flippin' heck Pete, I was quoting Baywatch.

[mushymanrob]

Don't forget though that the experiences would be far more enhanced in the afterlife then what we have here.

 

If a heaven existed then negative feelings such as boredom would never occour.

 

would they be enhanced?... i dont know, i do like living in the carnal, i like the sensation of eating or drinking, mmm drinking...lol.. nice tastety food. i like the pleasures of the flesh, i like diving into a cool pool to cool off when hot, i like warming up, tingling toes when ive got cold...  not so sure, nor do i understand what pleasure can be got spiritually that i cant get carnally.

 

They can find God, they just have to want to find him. Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given to you, knock and it will be opened for you. The main thing that clouds and blurs our ability to find God is pride, you could say that's the only thing. God cannot fill that which is already full.

 

As for the idea of Hell, that's something we choose for ourselves. If we choose to seperate ourvelves from God and live in darkness then that's what we'll get. If we choose to be with him then that's what we'll get. God doesn't send anyone to hell, that's something we do for ourselves. The door to heaven or hell is locked from the inside.

 

As he himself put it:

 

Jesus said: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.  This is the verdict: light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.  But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." - John 3:16-21

 

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

ah, well that where we disagree..

 

seek and ye will find? sorry but the onus is on the big guy, be it a parent or god, to instruct the little guy, clearly. who gave us pride? why do that knowing that we could use it? why would a loving careing god create such a confusion for the beings he purports to love? (yet create such an intricate web of life) and why are there so many different gods? theres no more evidence for any one above any other.

 

we chose hell?... :lol: ... so if i left a toddler in a room with some matches and told them to behave, yet the toddler played with the matches and got burned, thats the toddlers fault for chosing to play with the matches?..

 

if i go to hell (which i wont because it doesnt exist) then its gods fault for not caring enough to ensure his message was clear enough.... and yes the onus is on him to do that.  its bonkers that our creator should give us the ability to think, reason, explore and have free will, but then punish us (or let us be punished) for chosing to use those traits.

 

as for heaven.... where is it? everywhere the hubble telescope looks it just finds more and more galaxies millions of light years away, even jc travelling at the speed of light is still in our spiral arm....

All the God stuff is okay, but it doesn't answer the question: what's after death?

 

you cannot talk about life after death without bringing god/religion into the debate.. they are inextricably linked.

[Methuselah]

 

you cannot talk about life after death without bringing god/religion into the debate.. they are inextricably linked.

You surly can, Mushy...Where's the empirical evidence for any kind of 'afterlife'?

[wimblettben]

would they be enhanced?... i dont know, i do like living in the carnal, i like the sensation of eating or drinking, mmm drinking...lol.. nice tastety food. i like the pleasures of the flesh, i like diving into a cool pool to cool off when hot, i like warming up, tingling toes when ive got cold...  not so sure, nor do i understand what pleasure can be got spiritually that i cant get carnally.

 

 

ah, well that where we disagree..

 

seek and ye will find? sorry but the onus is on the big guy, be it a parent or god, to instruct the little guy, clearly. who gave us pride? why do that knowing that we could use it? why would a loving careing god create such a confusion for the beings he purports to love? (yet create such an intricate web of life) and why are there so many different gods? theres no more evidence for any one above any other.

 

we chose hell?... ... so if i left a toddler in a room with some matches and told them to behave, yet the toddler played with the matches and got burned, thats the toddlers fault for chosing to play with the matches?..

 

if i go to hell (which i wont because it doesnt exist) then its gods fault for not caring enough to ensure his message was clear enough.... and yes the onus is on him to do that.  its bonkers that our creator should give us the ability to think, reason, explore and have free will, but then punish us (or let us be punished) for chosing to use those traits.

 

as for heaven.... where is it? everywhere the hubble telescope looks it just finds more and more galaxies millions of light years away, even jc travelling at the speed of light is still in our spiral arm....

 

you cannot talk about life after death without bringing god/religion into the debate.. they are inextricably linked.

A lot of theists now say that their God and Heaven would be outside this universe, and thats where it would be. Unlike a lot of other previous gods that were actually said to be inside the world.

[jtay]

Sure they do, because it's one of those subjects you can make up as you go along.

In my humblest of opinions, what we have is both stunning and fleeting. To expect there's something better to come is so selfish and arrogant, only a human could be so flawed as to come up with the notion.

[mushymanrob]

You surly can, Mushy...Where's the empirical evidence for any kind of 'afterlife'?

 

there isnt any evidence, not 1 jot... its all based on faith of some discription.

 

A lot of theists now say that their God and Heaven would be outside this universe, and thats where it would be. Unlike a lot of other previous gods that were actually said to be inside the world.

 

oh.... magic then... cant be found within the known/seen/proven they must be somewhere else we cant see. trouble is with quantum physics, its all theory, untested and unproven. therefore has no more weight to it then religion.

 

ill deal with the physical, the things we can see and know exist.

[Cheshire Freeze]

ill deal with the physical, the things we can see and know exist.

 

Actually there's no guarantee that what we see in front of us actually exists. It exists as far as we're concerned but (if we're being pernickety).....

Edited September 12, 2013 by CreweCold