The changing daylight hours thread

[Summer8906]

 Relativistic The westerliness also helps, meaning that darkness at a given latitude is inherently later - somewhere like Reykjavik is arguably a better fit for GMT than us.

Edited November 27, 2024 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

 Ciderwithrosie Yes, 1630 is definitely one mental barrier - it marks the end of the period of really intense solstitial darkness. About Jan 17th here, I think.

I would also argue that post-1700 sunsets mark the end of what I think of as astronomical winter (which I base on sunset time, rightly or wrongly).  This is about Feb 5 here. So once you get past mid-Jan the "darkness" aspects of winter really start to rapidly fall away, so much so that by Jan 31 the sunset is already later than on "Dark Sunday" in October.

 

Edited November 27, 2024 by Summer8906

[Dangerous55019]

Afternoon all… Or should I now say good evening?

Anywhoo… I’m just on my break in work, and due to the topography of the land, I have just witnessed my first pre 15:30 sunset of the season.

For the record, the last vestiges of the sun’s disc slipped below the horizon at 15:24… Which for the record is an hour earlier than it was on Halloween! Which was just a mere 27 days ago!
 

Mind you, there are only just over three weeks to the winter solstice, and just two weeks before our earliest sunset! 
 

 

[damianslaw]

Hitting the core darkest period of the year, the festive lights bring much needed cheer. 

[Summer8906]

 Dangerous55019 You have it bad up there... earliest sunset here is almost precisely 16:00. And that's bad enough!

Edited November 27, 2024 by Summer8906

[damianslaw]

Stepping into peak core darkness period now, preety dark by 4pm and its not a wet or low cloud day either. 

[Catherine91]

Only about 26 minutes daylight left to lose here, and only 6 of those minutes are in the evening!

[Ciderwithrosie]

 Summer8906 Post 5oclock here is 29th -30th Jan I noticed and by that time I'm okay about the evenings.

The mornings take a little longer but once we are mid Feb they become lighter quite quickly and by end of March it's sunrise at just before 6am.

Not long now though for the evenings to stop closing in - 9th December 1605 here,it's like that for a week and it pulls out again  

[TheOgre]

Today, 30 November, is the last day of 8 hour daylight in my location. Evening daylight troughs from 9 to 16 December but morning light from 26 December to 2 January. It’s not until 3 January we start gaining on both ends.

Edited November 30, 2024 by TheOgre

[Dangerous55019]

 Summer8906 Morning @Summer8906

I know what you mean. Personally I’m fortunate to suffer with reverse SAD… So the extra darkness at this time of year really doesn’t bother me. But I know that there are many, many people who are now struggling/suffering with all of the extra darkness.

But having said that, there are things that I need to do outdoors, so it can take a bit of planning and patience at this time of year.

[ManiaMuse]

Only 5 minutes of evening light to lose here, it's pretty much bottomed out. The biggest influence on evening light for the next month or so is the level of cloud at sunset.

Mornings still get noticeably darker for quite a while though. This morning felt very dark with a band of heavy rain passing through although it is now clearing to leave completely blue skies.

[Summer8906]

Similar here, I think it's just 3 mins from now to darkest sunset so basically evenings have got as dark as they will get. Mornings not yet - but, unlike evenings, mornings are never really that dark down here, it's always reasonably light at 8am.

We're now in the first month since June when there will be more evening daylight (by a few minutes) at the end of the month than at the start.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

On 30/11/2024 at 02:57, TheOgre said:

Today, 30 November, is the last day of 8 hour daylight in my location

If I remember right the shortest day, and the days near it, are precisely 8 hours here. Indeed, due to the advancing solar noon, if I remember right there are a good few days around the solstice when sunrise and sunset are at the same minutes past each hour (08xx and 16xx).

Edited December 1, 2024 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

On 30/11/2024 at 10:48, Dangerous55019 said:

But having said that, there are things that I need to do outdoors, so it can take a bit of planning and patience at this time of year.

Yes, this time of year is not friendly for having a leisurely lunch and then going out for a walk in the afternoon.

More than once I've arrived somewhere in the countryside at around or just before 3pm and realised I only have an hour and a half of usable daylight to do the walk (usable daylight, including early twilight, here lasting until around 4.25pm at worst).

On one occasion in late Nov I got a 2pm bus out to a remote location in the New Forest (this was in 2002, on a notably convective Saturday, 23 Nov to be precise, when such buses existed, sadly they do not now post-austerity). It was due there around 2.50pm (which was late enough, but it was the only bus of the day) but due to traffic delays it got there around 3.30pm or even later. The sun was still up but low in the sky and I had very little time at all, and I remember walking across the Forest in darkness to meet a friend at a pub. That said, there was a lot of lightning activity over the Channel so that lit things up at times!

This is why I tend to favour all-year BST, doesn't feel you have to be in a rush to be able to do things in the afternoon.

The opposite tends to happen in late Feb or early March: people get used to finishing their walks early so you can be out in the countryside in broad daylight post-5pm and no-one is around, even if the weather is fairly benign. Many don't seem to realise the nights have been drawing out until "Light Sunday" at the end of March.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Summer8906

[damianslaw]

Just a week to go before we hit the low point in terms of earliest sunset.

This afternoon is going to bring a very early dusk, one of those days where it feels dark by 3pm, oh joy. 

Edited December 5, 2024 by damianslaw

[cheeky_monkey]

 damianslaw still a month to go here until we hit latest sunrise..still have another 25 mins of daylight to lose in the morning..only then have we truly turned the corner.

[damianslaw]

As anticipated, a dark afternoon, dusk has set in fully with the wind and rain, a true December feel.. 

[East Lancs Rain]

 damianslaw Indeed. 3 pm and it’s sooooo dark! Need the lights on already!   Awful. I really don’t like this time of year. 

Now 3:37 and the street lights have come on already! The darkest afternoon so far.

[East Lancs Rain]

 Summer8906 Here the earliest sunset is around 3:45 pm and the latest sunrise is around 8:30 am. 
 

On 27/11/2024 at 15:33, Dangerous55019 said:

Anywhoo… I’m just on my break in work, and due to the topography of the land, I have just witnessed my first pre 15:30 sunset of the season.

 

3:30 pm sunset? Surely that can’t be right… I’m further north than you and even up here the earliest sunset is around 3:45 pm.

[East Lancs Rain]

On 01/12/2024 at 10:40, Summer8906 said:

This is why I tend to favour all-year BST, doesn't feel you have to be in a rush to be able to do things in the afternoon.

From a personal perspective, I would prefer BST all year round (or even better BST +1 in summer), however that would mean that the sunrise in winter in Northern England would be at 9:30 am and in Scotland more like 10:00 am. 
 

I think 30 minutes ahead of GMT but 30 minutes behind BST would be a good compromise in winter. Or maybe have different time zones. Maybe have England and Wales on BST in winter but keep Scotland and Ireland on GMT. Ireland is very far west so has later sunrises and sunsets anyway, so I don’t think it would be a good idea to put them on BST in winter.

[East Lancs Rain]

4:20 pm and it’s pitch black already! Only 30 minutes after the offical sunset time. We’re still in civil twilight as well which doesn’t end until 4:32!

Edited December 5, 2024 by East Lancs Rain

[Daniel*]

On subject of sunshine et al here is a look at yearly total sunshine at Heathrow (1957-2024*).

 

[Summer8906]

 East Lancs Rain Good point.

To be fair we are now in that short period of the year (and it is short) when I can understand the need for at least "half GMT". This only applies to end of Nov, Dec and Jan, though. Most of Nov should stick to BST (e.g switch back on the 3rd Sunday of Nov), then we should revert back to full BST in Feb.

It was pitch-black at 7am this morning for the first time since last winter, so that would be 8am under full BST. (It did get rapidly lighter though, and was properly light before 0800). So we're past the "lop-sided days" period which typifies the first half of November in particular, when there's lots of light in the morning but little in the post-lunchtime period.

But I think a GMT-BST hybrid (30 mins back) would make reasonable sense. Around the solstice daytime would be around 0830 to 1630 which seems a reasonable compromise. Still civil twilight at both 0800 and 1700 in the south, and full daylight at both 0900 and 1600.

Edited December 5, 2024 by Summer8906

[Summer8906]

 Daniel* 2003, 1990, 1989, 1995. All the same kind of era... those were the days!

[Summer8906]

3 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

4:20 pm and it’s pitch black already! Only 30 minutes after the offical sunset time. We’re still in civil twilight as well which doesn’t end until 4:32!

It must be very unusual to get full darkness in civil twilight, even under bad weather.

Here, the earliest full darkness comes seems to be around 50 mins after sunset, so around 4.50pm at the absolute worst case. Best case this time of year, under clear skies, to spot lingering twilight is around half an hour later, about 5.20pm.

A bit of a half-hourly pattern in fact, as:

sunset+20 mins : the end of the time I would consider it properly "light". Usually plan to finish walks around this time, so 4.20pm on the darkest evenings.

sunset+50 mins: : when it starts getting seriously dark, earliest full darkness

sunset+80 mins: latest that you can see lingering blue sky and twilight

Edited December 5, 2024 by Summer8906