Weather news from Greece

[danm]

 Archer28 I’m hoping so. Not to this extent obvious as we’ll be there with the kids. Low 30’s would be fine. It’s always slightly cooler on the Halkidiki peninsula compared to areas further inland. 

When we were there in mid June last year we had two wet days out of 7 and some other days where it was quite cloudy in the mornings. Hoping for wall to wall blue skies which we normally get when going there. 

Edited July 14, 2024 by danm

[Archer28]

 danm

 

Low 30's is the climate normal for Halkidiki in August.

Greece has a very solid summer climate. No need to worry you wont get heat. You should worry if you get too much heat. 

Edited July 14, 2024 by Archer28

[danm]

 Archer28 yeh it was just that mid June spell last year where there was a bit too much cloud at times and a couple of wet days. Temperatures were mid to high 20’s. We’ve been to that region 3 times, the other two had wall to wall sunshine the whole week and temperatures into the low 30’s.

Edited July 14, 2024 by danm

[Lauren]

 danm yes, Halkidiki I've always found has never been as hot as the islands. Lovely part of the world. I was in Rhodes during the 2003 heatwave and that was crazy. 

[Archer28]

 

[Lauren]

Why is Sparta such a hot spot?

[Archer28]

 Lauren

Sparta is located in the interior of the Evrotas Valley between Taygetus and Parnon mountains, completely cut out from the sea on all directions, some 30 km away from the shores.  As the meltemi winds sweep Greece during the summer, both mountains provide a constant hot foehn winds effect which strongly affects the interior of the valley. 

Sparta is located at the same latitude as Seville. Slightly south of Seville actually. If you check the map you will notice that Taygetos Mountain blocks Sparta completely from the sea to the West while Parnonas blocks completely the city from the sea to the East. These are huge mountains. The sea breeze cant penetrate them.  

Both mountains have historic significance in Ancient Sparta's everyday life. We have various historic accounts, mostly from Strabo about the relentless summer heat in Sparta due to these mountains. 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Archer28

[Summer8906]

 Archer28 I hope not.

I'm in Greece at the moment and really not liking this prolonged humid heatwave.   Can't believe my bad luck that the same thing has happened two years in a row. The Julys of 2019 (was here during the first half) and 2022 were considerably more moderate overall.

Unbearably hot and humid during the nights, though day temps are less extreme. Started around a week ago and predicted to continue, and get even worse, this week before some indication of thunder and more normal temps by day at the weekend (but still very warm nights).

Extrapolating from Thessaloniki stats from 1991-2020 (this location is more rural and above 300m) the July norm should be around 29C max/18C min (taking off 3C from the Thessaloniki figures for 1991-2020).

Instead this July will average out at around 34C max / 25C min unless things change, so around 5C above normal by day and a ridiculous 7C above normal by night, so the mean temp perhaps around 5C above normal (the first week did provide normal conditions).

Exact same happened last year, if anything this year seems to be even more extreme by night - yet it's not receiving the same media coverage as 2023.

Small fires breaking out in the local area, too. Rain is badly, badly needed. Dare I say it, the effects of these synoptics here are even worse than they are on the UK. At least you can do outdoor activities on a cloudy 19C day, I guess, even if it's not exactly particularly cheerful.

Meanwhile the UK is getting its coolest and dullest pair of Julys since around 1988.

The mid-summer 2023 and 2024 patterns are vile for vast parts of Europe. I'm not one for cool and dull weather in the summer, but I'm not one for mid-twenties minima, mid-thirties maxima, and sticky humidity either!

If weather here just returned to the long-term average, I'd be more than happy. 29C max/18C min and bright is lots better than the 19C max/15C min and dull I'd get at home. But there's no joy to be had in 25C nights. You can't sleep and you're having to wash the bed clothes all the time. High-teens minima are quite enough if you want mild summer nights!

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[Archer28]

 Summer8906

Absolutely dreadful conditions.

Mind you Thessaloniki can get significantly more humid during the summer compared to Athens or most of mainland Greece.

East suburbs of Thessaloniki are already looking off the charts.

Take a look at Sindos... 36.2C mean max so far.

These values are unheard of in Thessaloniki. Local records will be smashed all over North Greece.

Media in Greece have just started picking up on it due to how prolonged this whole situation is. 

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Archer28

[Summer8906]

 Archer28 Indeed, I heard that June, which IMX is often very moderate here and even has bouts of cloud and rain in a normal year, was ridiculously hot too.

The 25.8 in April for Sindos (I know where this is) is absolutely ridiculous, it should be around 20, AFAIK, and I have been here in April a couple of times and temps were anything from around 15 to 22.

I do have one theory for August which might be completely unfounded. The silly heat of June and July might end up warming the seas to unusual levels, so that if any cooler uppers from Northern Europe filter down here, they destabilise over the sea and things go "bang" - increasing the chances of a wet and thundery August with perhaps an early change to an early autumn pattern. But hopefully no Storm Daniel repeat, of course.

As I said just a theory but it would be extraordinary if August was silly-hot as well.

91-20 norms for Thessaloniki should be 32 max/21 min, but out here (Pieria, near Katerini, at above 300 metres so ought to be significantly cooler) it seems to be around 34/25 most days. The nights are the problem though, I could cope with 35C max if it was accompanied by around a 17C min !

Just hope that the models are wrong.

I see back at home the models are suggesting a more normal second half of July in Southern England with many 22C maxima and even the odd 27C so one might hope more normal synoptics will return here.

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[Archer28]

 Summer8906

May was slighter hotter in Greece. But from July 2023 until today Greece is setting one heat record after the other...

You are lucky you live in that part of Pieria. 

Try low elevation areas...

Dion is off the charts

37.6C mean max so far. This is even challenging Sparta.

[Summer8906]

 Archer28 Dion is not so very far from what I am but considerably lower.

To get somewhere in the countryside, north of 40 North, having such silly temperatures is just plain ridiculous. The Dion figures so far are warmer than the July means for Cairo. And what's causing such a rural location to be hotter than more urban areas close to Thessaloniki?

Does Dion have long term stats available, incidentally?

I don't live here incidentally, just on an extended holiday! But I think in future years, to be quite honest, I will avoid July and the early part of August. The long-term means suggested that average July conditions ought to be well within the range of what I would consider a good summer climate,  but I wasn't expecting back-to-back Julys with temps around 5C above normal. July 23 and 24 have been truly extreme, and an experience I don't really want to repeat, I'm sorry to say; increasingly concerned that under climate change this sort of thing will become more frequent. In terms of aberration from the norm, it's like two July 2006s back-to-back in the UK.

By contrast, September is beautiful. As is January - I would thoroughly recommend a winter holiday here. Days and days of benign bright days with temps around 12C broken by short cold spells with more chance of snow than Southern England, and the odd thundery spell too - both courtesy of occasional upper lows.

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[Archer28]

 Summer8906

July mean max for Dion is 34.2C (2007-2023) 

Dion receives constant foehn winds from Olympus. That's why its getting so ridiculously hot over there. 

The situation in Greece is dire as we speak. Countless of records will be broken..

 

[LetItSnow]

23 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

I'm sorry to say; increasingly concerned that under climate change this sort of thing will become more frequent.

We are very lucky in comparison as summer is quickly becoming quite a vicious season across Europe... God knows what it'll be like by even the 2030s at this point!

[Summer8906]

GFS 06z seems more encouraging for (in my perception) a moderation of temps in Greece next week, July 22nd, with cooler uppers, associated with a pattern which at the same time promises to give much drier and warmer conditions to southern England.

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[Archer28]

 LetItSnow!

Indeed.

Athens used to be like 33C mean max in July and August and already we have stations in Metropolitan Athens approaching 36C July mean max. More notably Nea Filadelfeia which is located in central Athens Basin far from the sea. 

[Summer8906]

 LetItSnow! Indeed, take your pick in July it seems: cloudy, cool and damp or extreme heat.

Perhaps a narrow band in between where it's very thundery and they get a taste of both the heat and the cool, around the Alps for instance.

 

[Archer28]

 Summer8906

Hmmm...

The mean is constantly stuck over 20C at 850 hPa  until the end of the month at least for Athens.

That would translate to non stop 38-39C until the end of July

Edited July 15, 2024 by Archer28

[Summer8906]

 Archer28 Indeed. I have personal reasons for visiting here (so it's not a "random" location) but even still, I would expect, in an average year, day maxima of around 28-33 and night minima around 17-20. Such conditions would be absolutely fine!

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[Archer28]

 Summer8906

Yeah I mean for your location you should be better.

But for most of low altitude Greece is non stop heat until the end of the month...

[Summer8906]

 Archer28  It was the op run to be fair, and the uppers on the whole do look somewhat lower for northern Greece.

 

[Summer8906]

 Archer28 I think a lot will depend on whether more settled weather with an Azores high manages to get into the southern UK.

That might drive a more progressive pattern deep into continental Europe cutting off the very hot air.
 

I often find the weather here and back home are the "opposite", so cool and wet at home equals very hot here, and more settled at home equals more moderate here.

Aug 2022 is a good example, best August since 1995 back home, yet relatively cloudy and thundery (compared to norm) here. I prefer storms to build up in hot weather so that was a month I enjoyed!

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[LetItSnow]

 Summer8906

August 1995 must have been awful in Greece. I think you're right though because the two countries are in such a position that both lows and highs bring different airflows really. I imagine the only time the two get the same level of warmth anomalies are specific hot south-easterlies.

August 2022 positively balmy in comparison

August 1976 however... Those blues made me wanna put the heating on. Summer 1976 was very cool across much of mainland Europe.

[Summer8906]

 LetItSnow! I had heard that 1976 was really, notably, cool here.

1995 looks cool also but it looks like around a -1.5C anomaly so it would still have been around a 28C mean max: nothing to complain about. So similar absolute temp to SE England that month, but probably quite a lot wetter.

Looks like even August 2022 was marginally warmer than normal. I'm staying here much of next month too and hope something similar happens; a less-warm month with more thundery activity. Can't help thinking that anomalously warm seas might cause things to go bang, perhaps, if any form of cooler uppers from any part of northern Europe gets down here.

1968 was a year in which just about all of Europe including most of England shared in cold and wet, if I remember right.

How about months like July 1980, June 1985, August 1985, August 1986, June 1987, and July 1988? Guessing these might have been also very hot here but being in pre-severe-climate-change days probably not ridiculously so.

Long-fetch NW-lies is another possible example of a setup in which the UK and Greece could get the same kind of anomalies, I guess. You can tell the NW-ly days here, as they are always fresh and have particularly deep blue skies and good visibility. Not unlike Pm back home!

Edited July 15, 2024 by Summer8906

[LetItSnow]

55 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

How about months like July 1980, June 1985, August 1985, August 1986, June 1987, and July 1988? Guessing these might have been also very hot here but being in pre-severe-climate-change days probably not ridiculously so.

July 1980 seemed to be on the edge of the cool anomalies and just escaped, being rather warm (relatively speaking, probably very hot!).

June 1985 was rather warm.

August 1985 rather bad luck, hot to the north but slightly on the cool side.

August 1986 generally hot in southern Europe.

June 1987 on the boundaries of cool and warm, rather average. Don't forget July 1987 brought a blistering heatwave which killed many in those parts.

July 1988 blisteringly hot. Looks quite familiar this!