Wind Turbines ,Good Or Bad....?

[ANYWEATHER]

Wind turbines great idea  , but let's look into it a little deeper. ...They Kill  many birds,  lots of manifacturing ,using Fossil fuels , they Blight the landscape, lots of maintaining,  using fossil fuels,  And they make lots of noise,  and they are ugly scarring the Beautiful British countryside. ....And Wind Turbines are great when they turn, but during our coldest and  hottest periods ,the wind  does not blow, ......So when Mr UK needs the energy the most , the wind turbines are Useless...

[Methuselah]

And coal-fired power stations are great, I suppose? Thorium reactors, may be... I assume you know what thorium is?

[Wold Topper]

So a baseless assumption on wind turbines , location is key, 'feed in' taffifs to the national grid where profitable at one time, Farms working off grid from sustainable energy? Ugly, yes, do you get used to the sight of them? Yes, as for killing birds, no more than i run over going to work everyday on country roads, inevitable! Oh and they are not noisy, 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Wold Topper

[Derecho]

51 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Wind turbines great idea  , but let's look into it a little deeper. ...They Kill  many birds,  lots of manifacturing ,using Fossil fuels , they Blight the landscape, lots of maintaining,  using fossil fuels,  And they make lots of noise,  and they are ugly scarring the Beautiful British countryside. ....And Wind Turbines are great when they turn, but during our coldest and  hottest periods ,the wind  does not blow, ......So when Mr UK needs the energy the most , the wind turbines are Useless...

- Wind turbines kill birds...

Wind turbines only kill 0.3 birds for every 1 GWh of energy generated. Power stations are responsible 9.4 fatalities per 1 GWh energy through mining, onsite collision and electrocution via plant equipment

- Fossil fuel consumption is high

Rubbish, when factoring in the CO2 emissions via the manufacturing of wind turbines, emissions fall within a range of about 5 to 26 grams of CO2-equivalent per kilowatt-hour. To put that into context, coal fire plant emissions range from  675 to 1,689 grams of CO2 per kilowatt-hour.

- they are ugly scarring the Beautiful British countryside.

Subjective, I think they look nice, far nicer then a coal power plant without all the dirty air.

- when they turn, but during our coldest and  hottest periods ,the wind  does not blow.

and this is why we have other sources of renewable energy to lean back on but the government hasn't handled this well. In the 1990s we became much more reliant on gas but this relies on exports from Asia and Norway, if we didn't have renewables our situation would actually be a lot worse. The answer is to become less reliant on gas by investing in more renewables.

 

[Mixer 85]

Whilst the wind is blowing….good.

During periods of calm…very bad.

Simply look at your most recent electricity bill and ask yourself what benefit have you seen from the billions of investment in wind farms and all the government subsidies that make them commercially viable? 
 

It’s been calculated that in order to store enough energy to see the UK through a 10 day calm period in winter, an investment of 3 trillion in battery storage is necessary, just roughly 18 months GDP. This is also an ideal world scenario where there are no losses in energy between turbines and batteries and no leakage over time. It’s also based on current demand which is likely a fraction of a net zero world where every home, business, social environment is heated using heat pumps, every vehicle is electric, every meal is cooked on electric hob, all smelting & foundries use electric arc.
 

One might argue this is achievable for a wealthy and advanced nation like the UK but it’s only when you consider this on a global scale that you realise how farcical this net zero persuit really is. Do the maths and work out how much this will cost each and every individual. Will it even work? Will we be enduring rolling blackouts like China are currently? All this whilst the globes worst co2 producers ie India/China enjoy cheap energy and render our efforts moot.

Garden path springs to mind.

On the storage of renewable electricity - Net Zero Watch

WWW.NETZEROWATCH.COM

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(1) On a bad winter day, at present, we would need 40 GW*; this equates to about 1 TWh/day*.  This estimate is based on a 30 GW average daily demand

 

[interested & confused]

15 hours ago, Wold Topper said:

Oh and they are not noisy, 

They do have a destinct, deep whoosh, whoosh noise if you live near to them, worse with some wind directions. If I stay at my son's house I can hear them, but they're all used to the background noise now, so it doesn't register with them. It's just like you get used to living with traffic sounds in your own area.

[Derecho]

4 hours ago, Mixer 85 said:

Whilst the wind is blowing….good.

During periods of calm…very bad.

Simply look at your most recent electricity bill and ask yourself what benefit have you seen from the billions of investment in wind farms and all the government subsidies that make them commercially viable? 
 

It’s been calculated that in order to store enough energy to see the UK through a 10 day calm period in winter, an investment of 3 trillion in battery storage is necessary, just roughly 18 months GDP. This is also an ideal world scenario where there are no losses in energy between turbines and batteries and no leakage over time. It’s also based on current demand which is likely a fraction of a net zero world where every home, business, social environment is heated using heat pumps, every vehicle is electric, every meal is cooked on electric hob, all smelting & foundries use electric arc.
 

One might argue this is achievable for a wealthy and advanced nation like the UK but it’s only when you consider this on a global scale that you realise how farcical this net zero persuit really is. Do the maths and work out how much this will cost each and every individual. Will it even work? Will we be enduring rolling blackouts like China are currently? All this whilst the globes worst co2 producers ie India/China enjoy cheap energy and render our efforts moot.

Garden path springs to mind.

On the storage of renewable electricity - Net Zero Watch

WWW.NETZEROWATCH.COM

---

(1) On a bad winter day, at present, we would need 40 GW*; this equates to about 1 TWh/day*.  This estimate is based on a 30 GW average daily demand

 

Ah a website with Lord Lawson as a board member.... says it all. Just a bunch of climate change deniers with the aim of peddling out misinformation to please their fossil fuel lobbyists. They are facing a losing battle.

The article you linked fails to account for the fact that the cost of new technology rapidly falls as it develops. In Germany for example, battery costs have fallen by 60% from 2014 to 2017 and are estimated to fall another 50-60% by 2030. Hydro-pumped storage systems in  2017 made up 96% of electricity storage but by 2030s the storage from batteries looks set to rival hydro storage. 

Far better then being put to the mercy of geopolitical actions of the likes of Putin and in the long run, far better for the UK. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Quicksilver1989

[iand61]

Even though government policy is to now build them at sea, it came to late for areas of the country such as this part of the South Pennines which is now surrounded by wind farms giving a whole new meaning to George Osborne’s Northern Powerhouse.

I have eight 110m turbines within a couple of miles of home and yes you can hear them when the wind comes from the east and although there is usually enough wind up here to turn the blades, they do spend a fair percentage of the time not moving.

 I don’t particularly like or dislike them or have an opinion on whether they are an essential part of power generation but with a 25 -30 year life span, I don’t think that the ones lining this stretch of the Lancashire/Yorkshire boundary and main east west watershed are going anywhere fast.

one thing which they have done locally though is to open up vast tracts of otherwise inaccessible moorland for leisure purposes although whether this is a positive or negative is a matter of opinion.

 

[Bristle Si]

Never understood why the UK hasnt made more use of hydro. We're an island, with a number of locations around the islands that have extremes/ranges of tides, like here in the Severn channel. Across from roughly Weston SM to S Wales, plenty of options to have hyrdo-electric power stations.

I find it bizarre, quite frankly.

[iand61]

13 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Never understood why the UK hasnt made more use of hydro. We're an island, with a number of locations around the islands that have extremes/ranges of tides, like here in the Severn channel. Across from roughly Weston SM to S Wales, plenty of options to have hyrdo-electric power stations.

I find it bizarre, quite frankly.

I’ve never understood the lack of Hydro schemes in the UK either.

as you say the Severn Estuary would seem like an ideal location and there have been plans in place to build a tidal barrage across Morecambe Bay from Cumbria to Lancashire since the 70’s.

Even inland locations would seem to offer suitable locations with fast flowing stretches of rivers and many reservoir overflows which you would think could provide a certain amount of power.

maybe the benefit just doesn’t justify the investment.

[ANYWEATHER]

8 minutes ago, iand61 said:

I’ve never understood the lack of Hydro schemes in the UK either.

as you say the Severn Estuary would seem like an ideal location and there have been plans in place to build a tidal barrage across Morecambe Bay from Cumbria to Lancashire since the 70’s.

Even inland locations would seem to offer suitable locations with fast flowing stretches of rivers and many reservoir overflows which you would think could provide a certain amount of power.

maybe the benefit just doesn’t justify the investment.

Maybe there is no profit in Hydro. If it was lucrative I'm sure there would be hydro power everywhere. ,! As they say....Money Talks

[matty40s]

On 18/10/2021 at 19:42, Bristle boy said:

Never understood why the UK hasnt made more use of hydro. We're an island, with a number of locations around the islands that have extremes/ranges of tides, like here in the Severn channel. Across from roughly Weston SM to S Wales, plenty of options to have hyrdo-electric power stations.

I find it bizarre, quite frankly.

Making waves: World's most powerful tidal turbine gets to work

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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A tidal-powered turbine, which its makers say is the world's most powerful, has connected to the grid.

 

[Bristle Si]

11 minutes ago, ANYWEATHER said:

Maybe there is no profit in Hydro. If it was lucrative I'm sure there would be hydro power everywhere. ,! As they say....Money Talks

Well, most of us probably regard Norway as a major oil nation, but incredibly, they produce 98% of their electricity from hydro power, with almost 1200 hydro power stations.

[Derecho]

4 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

Never understood why the UK hasnt made more use of hydro. We're an island, with a number of locations around the islands that have extremes/ranges of tides, like here in the Severn channel. Across from roughly Weston SM to S Wales, plenty of options to have hyrdo-electric power stations.

I find it bizarre, quite frankly.

Agreed...

There are some complications, some covered here...
 

Profiling the top pros and cons of tidal power technology

WWW.NSENERGYBUSINESS.COM

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Although tidal power is forecast to play a significant role in the world's future energy mix, the technology has various pros and cons

There was plans to build a tidal bay over Swansea a few years ago but this never materialised.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Quicksilver1989

[GSP]

10 hours ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

Agreed...

There are some complications, some covered here...
 

Profiling the top pros and cons of tidal power technology

WWW.NSENERGYBUSINESS.COM

---

Although tidal power is forecast to play a significant role in the world's future energy mix, the technology has various pros and cons

There was plans to build a tidal bay over Swansea a few years ago but this never materialised.

I maybe wrong but I thought I heard environmentalists were concerned about the impact and disruption on life on sea beds where hydro turbines were cited.
Given a short time though, nature can usually adapt to changes and conditions.

It is a mystery. Tidal power guaranteed twice a day, whereas particularly down here we can go weeks or months with hardly a breeze.

Wind turbines seem to have this rubber stamp, build as many as you can. My sceptical mind however doubts that the decisions made at the top are in the best interests of everyone, but only for a few.