Netweather Extra App - 17/01/23 Update

[Gonzolio Martinez]

I opened the Netweather Extra app this morning to find it has received an 'update'.

Apparently its been 'Updated to use the V8 Radar engine' - in reality the app has simply been replaced with a link that opens the V8 radar webpage in your default browser - that's it! A properly developed app has been turned into a Web link with extra steps. It can barely be called an 'app' anymore.

My default browser is Firefox Nightly due to its add-on support and it doesn't play nice with the V8 radar. So a working app has been turned into a waste of space on my phone as I can't use it anymore. So thanks

A huge step backwards and horribly lazy development. Why even bother with an 'app' of its just going to be a web link?

I want the old app back - it wasn't perfect but at least it was actually an app and actually functioned.

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gonzolio Martinez

[Gonzolio Martinez]

I'm actually considering cancelling my subscription over this. It's the first time Netweather have seriously disappointed me.

It's not just the update, it's the intellectual dishonesty of it - the update notes give the impression there has been an actual substantial update to the app, but it's just listing the general features of the V8 radar webpage.

An honest description of the update would be "This app's functionality has been completely removed, it now functions solely as a launchpad for the radar webpage".

Why even bother having an app at all if this is what it's going to be? You may as well just tell everyone development on the app is cancelled and to just go to the website, because that's what's basically happening here.

It's like you guys want an app without the inconvenience of actually developing an app.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gonzolio Martinez
Spelling

[Paul]

Sorry you're not happy with the change, but it's really not just a web page masquerading as an app. The V8 radar has been built as a PWA, which is why it's installable as an app from the browser and why Google have allowed it to be added to the Play Store. There's more information on PWA's (progressive web apps) here:

Progressive web apps (PWAs) | MDN

DEVELOPER.MOZILLA.ORG

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Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) are web apps that use service workers, manifests, and other web-platform features in combination with progressive enhancement to give users an experience on par with native apps.

The majority of subscribers no longer use the native app from the Play Store and have installed the V8 direct from the page, so the next natural step was to update the legacy app in the Play Store to the newer version, adding a number of new features and options to it. 

It's unfortunate you're not able to use it in your existing browser, but your sole use of a nightly beta browser is somewhat of an edge case. The non beta version of Firefox (and Edge and Chrome) supports PWA's, so if you can, perhaps install one of those. Obviously, should you continue to have issues, please let us know. 

[Gonzolio Martinez]

This not an acceptable answer - I can see with my own eyes that it's literally just opening a browser window to https://www.netweather.tv/extra/radar/

So yes, it IS just the webpage masquerading as an app - trying to tell me otherwise is asking me to deny the evidence of my own eyes.

Look at the attached images. It even gives me the option of selecting the desktop version of the site. When I do it shows the website menus and everything!

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gonzolio Martinez

[Paul]

PWA's run in the browser, that's the basis of them. They are progressive web apps. 

Quote

A progressive web application (PWA), or progressive web app, is a type of application software delivered through the web, built using common web technologies including HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and WebAssembly. It is intended to work on any platform with a standards-compliant browser, including desktop and mobile devices.

Progressive web app - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

Quote

Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) are web apps that use service workers, manifests, and other web-platform features in combination with progressive enhancement to give users an experience on par with native apps.

PWAs provide a number of advantages to users — including being installable, progressively enhanced, responsively designed, re-engageable, linkable, discoverable, network independent, and secure.

Progressive web apps (PWAs) | MDN

DEVELOPER.MOZILLA.ORG

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Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) are web apps that use service workers, manifests, and other web-platform features in combination with progressive enhancement to give users an experience on par with native apps.

 

[Paul]

11 minutes ago, Gonzolio Martinez said:

Look at the attached images. It even gives me the option of selecting the desktop version of the site. When I do it shows the website menus and everything!

 

Yes, it's a PWA it will run in the browser and have browser related options. It also has the option showing there to open in app, which a standard web page would not have. Ultimately you are using a beta version of a browser there as well, which is going to have bugs and issues within it. Stable versions of firefox will play much  more nicely with it. 

[Gonzolio Martinez]

1 minute ago, Paul said:

Yes, it's a PWA it will run in the browser and have browser related options. It also has the option showing there to open in app, which a standard web page would not have. 

Firefox has the option to open websites in their related app like Twitter or YouTube - so it is something a standard webpage has.

Like I said, everything about this just shows its a browser window pointing to the website.

[Paul]

15 minutes ago, Gonzolio Martinez said:

Firefox has the option to open websites in their related app like Twitter or YouTube - so it is something a standard webpage has.

Twitter has a PWA which will install if you click the install button in browser. If you go on a website which isn't built as a PWA (like our homepage, the BBC etc), then the install link isn't there, and if you don't have either the PWA or native app for a web page installed, the open in app option isn't there. 

I've linked the info to PWA's above. I'm not sure what more I can say in this instance - it is a PWA, it's not just a standard web page - it installs onto your device for quicker start up, has notifications, background tasks and so on - the same as a native app has. Google allow PWA's to be added to the store because they offer a good user experience on a par with native apps, and that's why we've gone down the road of developing it in this way. 

As I say, I'm sorry you're not happy with it. You're obviously in the fairly unusual situation of having a beta/nightly version of a browser as your default which complicates things, but ultimately there's nothing disingenuous going on here. We've been recommending people install the PWA version for some time, noting at the same time that the Play Store app is a 'legacy' product. This is what's been on the Extra homepage for 12 months or more:

Quote

The new V8 Radar is installable as a PWA app on most major devices and desktop/laptop PC's. Just follow the on screen prompts to install or 'add to home screen' from the V8 radar page.
For Android users the original (legacy) app is also still available through Google Play Store., though we do recommend you move onto the V8 radar for additional features.

So, the next step would be to either remove the legacy version, or update it. Since Google allow PWA's to be used in the Play Store, we decided to update it, so that those who haven't yet installed the V8 from the site have access to the newer and substantially improved version. 

[Mapantz]

I'm pretty sure Firefox removed PWA support, so that's why you're having problems.

I use Samsung internet, and the PWA shows as a separate app.

[Paul]

4 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

I'm pretty sure Firefox removed PWA support, so that's why you're having problems.

I think they still support them in mobile browsers, just not desktop.

https://caniuse.com/?search=PWA

[Gonzolio Martinez]

The thing that I'm finding frustrating about this is I keep being told this isn't just a browser window opening a website - but that is literally what it is.

If this forced it to open inside a Chrome window instead it might work ok, but if it's just going to open a default browser window then this is the risk - I shouldn't have to mess around with my default browser to open an app properly - call me old fashioned, but the point of an app is it's supposed to run locally on the device itself.

This 'webification' of all software drives me absolutely nuts - everything is either just a website running in a obfuscated browser window or it's some bloated and janky NodeJS rubbish, which is just putting lipstick on some javascript and pretending it's a native app.

[Mapantz]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

They still support them in mobile browsers, just not desktop.

I believe there are issues with it. Reddit is littered with complaints about Firefox/PWA's on Android.

[Paul]

50 minutes ago, Gonzolio Martinez said:

The thing that I'm finding frustrating about this is I keep being told this isn't just a browser window opening a website - but that is literally what it is.

If this forced it to open inside a Chrome window instead it might work ok, but if it's just going to open a default browser window then this is the risk - I shouldn't have to mess around with my default browser to open an app properly - call me old fashioned, but the point of an app is it's supposed to run locally on the device itself.

This 'webification' of all software drives me absolutely nuts - everything is either just a website running in a obfuscated browser window or it's some bloated and janky NodeJS rubbish, which is just putting lipstick on some javascript and pretending it's a native app.

It's not really like that though to be honest. There's no node.js in sight for a start. The modernisation of browsers means there are numerous api's within them to support native functions, plus with service worker support, you have things like offline support, notifications and so on available. It's not just a case of dressing a web page up to be an app, it's putting native functionality into web technology. 

Obviously, in your case, it's added some complication, which is unfortunate. But, it is an edge case. And bear in mind that native apps can run into issues as well - older devices losing support being an obvious one, which PWA's don't have as often, as they should work even in a basic browser, albeit perhaps without the bells and whistles you'll get on a more modern device. So, it's swings and roundabouts. 

[Gonzolio Martinez]

The node.js mention was just generally as it drives me mad with Windows 'native' desktop applications. I'm my view javascript has no place being the basis for a desktop application - such apps are bloated and poorly optimised. It's just a bugbear of mine.

I'm at a bit of a loss what to do here though - is there anyway you can provide the option of a legacy app for the likes of me or update the app to force it through Chrome to ensure compatibility?

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gonzolio Martinez

[Paul]

We may be able to send you the apk, but there'd be no guarantee over how long we'll continue to support it I'm afraid. 

In terms of forcing PWA's into chrome, I think that's going to be an Android thing rather than anything we could control on our side. 

[Paul]

Actually, thinking about this, there may be a simple fix to have it open in chrome. Just uninstall the play store version, then navigate to the V8 radar when in chrome and install it from there (either from the browser menu or the on screen prompt), then it should open in that each time, hopefully. 

[Gonzolio Martinez]

Yeah, that was the solution.

In Chrome it is a COMPLETELY different experience. Like night and day. Actually functions and acts like an app.

In Firefox it was barely functional, just a very broken webpage in a browser window - this is a big issue and needs to be addressed.

As a long time Firefox user, I'm used to the Web being geared towards Chrome, but that was just a mess. PLEASE look into it.

The V8 radar works in Firefox in Windows no problem, but on Android there's something very wrong.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gonzolio Martinez

[Paul]

Glad you have it sorted. To be honest, I think the problems you saw in Firefox are related to the fact you're using the developers nightly build, as it works fine in the stable build from what I've seen.

 

 

[Gonzolio Martinez]

That's odd because nothing else does this in Firefox Nightly - and it really really doesn't like it.

[Paul]

No, it certainly doesn't, but unfortunately we can't really support what is ultimately an alpha version of a browser, as issues are more likely to be bugs in the browser than on our side. This is a screenshot from the stable build on android.

And the installed version in firefox