[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

You started it off by saying the man made influence was debateable and then went on to talk about events thousands of years ago. Why is it debateable?

I thought it was obvious that the point I was making concerned changes in salinity that can be affected by AGW. I'm obviously wandering in my old age!

But the deforestation and the millions living on flood plains with poor defence from floods are what caused the headlines.

I will not read anything about glacial true pictures as I do not believe what scientists are telling us any more.

If you want the true picture on glaciers I suggest you read this.

http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/

I think you may also find that the floods in Pakistan had more to do with the displacement of the subtropical jetstream.

[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

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[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

That is the point, myself nor you or anyone else can prove or disprove anything about the weather because it is ever changing. I am not mixing up weather and climate I would say you are, as weather leads to climate and settled climate is dismantled by unsettled weather. But mans unfluence on the weather and therefore the climate is paltry compared with natural events.

We learn to live with the weather not the other way round.

So technical language and figures can be twisted whichever way you want but no one can predict the weather or the climate.

We can however follow forecast trends but these are always volatile as we have seen this December. And they are short term forecasts.

Yet global warming is backed up by forecasts of weather and climate 40 to 100 years hence. As I said - what tosh.

In any case we are heading to a zero carbon emission world in the coming decades so mans affect on CO2 will be reduced to zero.

You're mixing up weather and climate. Just because we go through a record cold spell, doesn't mean greenhouse gas induced warming is tosh. Have a look at this, despite our cold, a lot more of the Northern Hemisphere is experiencing very mild temperatures, including the Arctic.

Instead of dismissing and argument simply because it's "technical", why don't you take the time to understand what is being said and prove Gray Wolf is wrong?

[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

You are prevaricating. You did not predict the record December cold nor can you predict the cold to come in the next three months. You can't predict the state of the Arctic or the Atlantic even one year from now yet alone 100 years. It is called the weather. Hiding behind technical references means nothing to Mother Nature and her turbulent and chaotic personality.

Global warming then climate change and now the extreme cold is caused by global warming - what tosh. No one knows.

Indeed! Be it 'h.P. blocking influenced by solar min' allowing the Arctic incursions to 'hang around' (last year) or merely the potency and duration of the 'cold outbreaks' (this year) the 'fact ' is that we are receiving barely modified Arctic Air.

This Northerly regime is also very bad news for the Arctic with the warm air advection keeping East Canada/Greenland far warmer than they ought to be (allowing Nares to empty it 'cargo into Baffin) and flooding the basin with 'warm air'. The Fram Train has been running full pelt throughout this 'out break' (as the 'north Pole web cam' buoy track attests to with all that ice now melting in the N.Atlantic once forming the pole (on April 19th 2010)).

We can moan about our cold (or clap our hands about the cold) but it is not the 'cold' we used to know as that 'cold' did not cost us our Arctic ice development and lead us to ever lower ice figures the summer following (leading to more 'cold air outbreaks' the following winter further restricting the arctic processes leading to less ice the following summer.....)

[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

Exactly how are we impacting on the Atlantic? It is the failure of the Atlantic to break through that has allowed the current cold weather. You did not predict the current cold in the UK and yet you predict events 100 years from now.

Indeed W.S.! the number of U.K. Daily papers exploring /examining the recent 'cold winters' (due to what they cost the country in travel disruption/lost work days) and laying out just how the Arctic Amplification is bringing such conditions south to us.

I'm even meeting folk ,out and about, keen to explain the new 'climate chaos'........I knew folk would need 'extreme events' occuring to them before they fully embraced just how we are impacting our world!

[Arctic Ice Discussion - 2010 Freeze Up]

Arctic sea ice is surely totally irrelavent. It neither adds to rising sea levels should it melt or decrease sea levels should it freeze. It is totally a physical indicator of the coldness of the arctic waters at varying times of the year. Nothing more.

The southern extent of the jet stream must influence the air temperature in that the arctic air will be warmer as the cold air shifts down south. If the jet stream moves north this must lock the cold air into the arctic.

However is the sea ice not susceptible to salinity and ocean current from storms in the Atlantic? The Atlantic is the biggest influence on western northern hemispere weather. And cannot be affected in any way by mans interference.

[The North Atlantic Current Is Gone]

Actually Groenland may be so named due to the green of the lower parts of Greenland in the summer. The ones not covered by glaciers.

Is it time to resurrect this thread? Are we starting to see why that big white Landmass is called Greenland. Everything runs in cycles, it's all wave forms and frequency when it comes to Mother nature. Lets hope it takes a while yet!