Bodhi

Does anyone have any further information on the areas that haven't been fully elucidated yet please? Also the question about veering and backing that came up in my reply. Cheers all Rich

Afternote: I had seen the webpage before in my searching for an answer. It just says "The magnitude of the coriolis force is proportional to the speed of the wind." and that is the justification for using it further on. I am not disputing that it may be so I am just asking HOW exactly my intial explanation is wrong.

Hi folks Thanks for the replies. I titled the post the Coriolis Effect because I am very much aware of the fact it isn't a real force. This however does not answer my question at all I am afraid. I also describe the changing velocities towrds the poles but again this does not describe why a moving body should have a change of motion directly proportional to its velocity. The pdf is better but the presuppositions in it of why the maths used is as it is is what I would like a fuller explanation of please? Cheers All the best Rich

OK I am very happy with a projectile being sent North or South veering to its right in the N Hemisphere (and vice versa down under). It is clear that rotation speeds at each latitude are different and therefore the East West vector of speed of the projectile while 0 to the firer changes as it moves North or South. However, that doesn't describe why it is said to be a force proportional to wind speed. The effect I have described is absolute for any speed as the Northerly projectile being fired has no East/West component except that given by the coriolis effect, which also has no North/South vector. On an East/West projectile therefore there is no coriolis effect at all by this description. Secondly the effect, usually subsumed into the coriolis one, of an East/West projectile veering to the LEFT doesn't make sense to me. The explanation given that the lines of latitude are not straight is not very good. I can cut a completely flat plane through a globe along a line of latitude. The ring is formed is perfectly straight as it goes round the curved plane ie the line of latitude. A projectile or wind on this line could quite happily follow this path without veering off. Any help on where I am mistaken, with explanation, would be very useful. Thanks alot to the brave soul(s) who will answer this one All the best Rich

Hi Chi Again thank you for your time and answers. 1. I found the info about the Ferrel Cell's wind directions on a site that looked like it was run by "proper" meteorologists- I have now found this diagram from the NASA website showing the same thing. Prior to this I was happy with the standard three cell model. http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect14/09globalcirccomp.jpg 2. Your explanations btw are very good. I was already familiar with these ideas though. 3. Very interesting..cheers. The fact they do generally form at the upper boundaries between cells is good enough for me at the moment. My next question would naturally be why does the air decide to move East there when it should be going down or up for its return cell journey- and then West or East upon reaching either the upper level or lower level depending on which meeting point of cells we are looking at? All the best Rich

Hi Chi Thank you very much for your answers. Much of the above I have a reasonable grasp on and some of it a tentative grasp but I have listed the following as paticularly important ot my further understanding. 1. But if we look at the Hadley cell (or the Polar) we find the winds moving away from the equator in the upper troposhere and the winds moving back towards it on the surface. Therefore there is a difference between surface winds height and the other wind. My point was to try to find the vertical distances for the lower wind, any height measurement for any still air in the 'centre' and the height and thickness of the top layer wind. Does that make sense? 2. Ok so the Ferrel Cell winds blow towards the North East at both top and bottom...begging the question of how does air return to the south if there is no circulation in this cell (unlike what is shown on the diagrams). My understanding seemed to fit in with your first points ie the hadley dropping air at 30d and the polar rising air at 60d forced air in between to adopt these same circulations- but if there is no returning upper level wind to the 30d level then therein lies the problem. 3. I guess with all these heights and directions I am hoping for some actual concrete average numbers please 4. I also get that the Ferrel Westerlies move the general air and are not the cyclonic winds , but this further enhances the question about where each actually is in terms of height and distance from the other. Same too with the jet stream, westerlies and cyclonic winds. I appreciate your continued input and anyone elses too Cheers Rich Hi Jane Thank you for the welcome. Will do. PS I ticked the follow topic button but am not getting emails to say when the topic is updated..can I do this? Cheers All the best Rich (Think I've sorted the email options, Jane, so no worries)

Hi there and thank you for the welcome I have just had a look through the guides and can't see the answers to my questions- in fact the veering and backing winds mentioned in the front discussion just adds further questions as all lows look to me like anticlockwise air patterns- no clockwise veering seen. I look forward to any answers and elaboartions you can offer on my questions here. Thank you. Rich

Hi all I have just joined up here after becoming interested in Meteorology a few weeks ago. My first question is about winds. The Ferrel Cell winds for the Uk latitudes show the surface winds to be to the North and with the Coriolis Effect that makes them into South Westerlies. My understanding of surface winds is up to the strato level of clouds at least (please correct if wrong). On top of this we have the jet streams flowing in an undulating direction to the east at high level but we would also have the Ferrel cell returnig winds as North Easterlies. I would like to know how these upper level winds interact- heights of each and how far apart they are. It seems that the jet stream follows the Northern boundary of the Ferrel Cell (between the Polar return and the Ferrel North Easterly?). The next part is that when observing low pressure systems from home I observe the winds to mainly be SWesterlies and sometimes catch them turning into Westerlies and slight NWesterlies. Now these winds seem to be a part of the low itself and the change in direction marks its passage to the East, and then the winds generally shift back to the SW for the next low. However, where is the Ferrel Cell SWesterly when the winds are doing this from a low? Also how does the Ferrel Cell and Jet stream work to move the Low system itself- what about the shear effect on the low from the Ferrel Cells vertically opposite winds? I often look up and see the high clouds stationary but the low seems to still be moving easterly too. I am grateful for any help offered. Cheers. All the best Rich