laserguy
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Posts posted by laserguy
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Here's the same story from a different source.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4248062.html
The comments under the main article are interesting. As the 'heat' goes out of AGW,watch all the soon to be out of work protagonists start clamouring for money to 'study' the sun,as the title of the piece suggests.
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Yesterday I 'threw the towel in' since it had become impossible to say anything on here without being branded as some type of heretic,just for seeing through the nonsense of AGW. The following link has arrived in a timely manner as it pretty much sums up what I've been saying since I arrived on n-w. I urge you all to read. Look at all those billions spent on trying (and failing dismally ) to blame CO2. And AGWer's go on about 'fiddling while Rome burns'.
http://www.aim.org/special-report/will-med...arming-con-job/
I can understand how difficult it is after all these years to admit to being a victim of the greatest hoax ever perpetrated,but better give it up now before getting caught in the avalanche. You know it makes sense. Catch y'all on the otherside.
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Give it up eh Stratos. I post less and less on here because of the endless, relentless, superior nonsense such as Jethro wishes comments. Seems to me there is less and less debate about facts and more and more responding to personality or persona. I know exactly who will respond to any post I make and the vein and tone which will be taken and by whom. Tedious.
My sentiments entirely. It's all very well for so called deniers to be slated but when it's the other way round,oh no. Not only is it going off wholesale on here but in the scientific community itself,where it is very well known that those who do not toe the line have received all manner of threats to 'keep quiet' from the establishment for fear of upsetting the apple cart.
Well I've had enough.Doneski,finished. I'll let all you believers with all your answers to a non-existant problem just get on with it. I wish you well.
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The day when a AGW sceptic can make a post without going on a personal insulting rant and instead sticking strickly to the science, which it is after all all about, will be a special day indeed.
With respect Magpie,my observation is that it's the AGW fraternity who get most upset,hostile,defensive and abusive whenever someone dare challenge their 'authority'. But that's by the by,back on track now,eh? One notable exception is P3 (where is he by the way?),who somehow never gets ruffled!
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Stuff bed,I'm restless! Agree with much of what you just said TWS,interesting though that you didn't mention 'our' CO2! You're mainly coming from a UK perspective with not being able to cope with increased summer heat,and again you're right,mortality rates amongst the elderly,those with respiratory conditions,very young etc do increase. Just like a few centimetres of snow brings chaos to our roads,our European neighbours just seem to carry on pretty much as normal with feet of the stuff. Instead of the notion of trying to 'tackle' climate change,it's more a matter of acclimatising (see what I did there!) to it. No doubt a warmer world would indeed bring some problems but I can't see them outweighing the positives. Maintaining the status quo is out of our hands,and cooling (from the approximate point we're at now) as far as I can see has no plus-points whatsoever,unless you're an Eskimo! As far as summer floods go,well that's too bad for houses etc already in known flood plains,but our government despite it's calamitous warning that we are to expect a repeat of summer 2007 sometime down the line due to 'climate change',has in it's wisdom decided to go ahead and commission the building of thousands more homes in...known flood plains. It was certainly on the agenda late last year anyway. Is it just me,or do they 'know' something we don't!?
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So, what he said, regarding the apparent plateauing of global temperature this century, was.....
"One would have to see on the basis of some analysis what this really represents, are there natural factors compensating?"
There is an implicit acknowledgement there that there has been such a plateau. No-one can doubt that.
I also find it quite amazing that he is raising the subject of natural factors possibly compensating.
Natural factors don't compensate,they govern. Our CO2's effects,if any,are nothing more than the finest of fine tunings. This ground has been trodden many,many times. These natural rhythms of climate find themselves in the presence of 'us',some of whom just can't accept it and simply have to look for something to blame. I can never find the superlatives to describe the ridiculousness of it all. Like you say Noggin,cycles within cycles within cycles.
Dr.Pachauri is not the only one,there are many 'dissenters' who refuse to toe the line but they are invariably dismissed as not knowing what they are on about,not qualified,having vested interests etc etc. Sooner or later they will be listened to when the credibility of AGW reaches breaking point. Even the most ignorant of the mainstream masses have a gullibility threshold,though most of them are only aware of the High Priest of nonsense himself Al.Gore wrt to 'climate change'. I'm fed up of being an 'outsider' too,having to put up with frequent insulting questions along the lines of 'do you really know the difference between weather and climate,do you have the faintest idea how climate works,do you realise CO2's forcing works in a logarithmic manner and not linear'?,etc. Yes,yes,yes,ad infinitum,why shouln't I,and what is it that gives the 'believers' the totally misguided and erronous notion that they are the only ones who know with any authority what they are talking about,and the 'deniers' are the ones who need educating? I'm trying so hard not to come across as insulting in any way (I never intend that,despite having to put up with lot's of it myself from those who consider themselves intellectually superior presumably and solely because they entertain the CO2 theory),but boy it's hard work. Millions of people,hundreds of thousands of whom are paid handsomely,squibbling around trying to explain this sub 1C rise in temps over 30ish years and then feverishly putting 100% effort into making the CO2 argument stand up. Still. It wont,it can't,and while the argument rages on the climate will most probably have 'turned' again.
The CO2 'movement' is about everything except climate change in reality.Many folk,bless 'em,are still blissfully unaware of why governments(their employers)want them to vilify the production of CO2 and so they are still employed in this ultimately futile quest to nail CO2 as the great monster of our times. Good luck.
Going back briefly to the unusual (and yes they are unusual in many cases) and extreme cold events which have adorned the start of 2008. Again,some are asking the question whenever a 'denier' mentions these events if they comprehend the difference between weather and climate. Sigh. I'm obviously not making myself clear on this,so I'll try again. Whilst I obviously appreciate that these events signify not a great deal in themselves,they are hardly testimony to this alleged warming which has been going on for X many years now and by certain accounts is not showing any signs of reversing. Notice how the squeals of the globowarmers get ever more shrill as global weather events (which,like it or not are associated with climate!) refuse to conform to the masterplan? Climate,and it's offspring the weather,for want of a better way of putting it,will do what the hell it wants and there isn't a damn thing that anyone,individually or collectively can do a thing about,except cope with it. All this snow and ice to extremes may well be a one off this year,maybe not. What I do know is that some people (and I'm not tarring all with same brush) would say we're still warming and it's all down to CO2 blah blah even if the entire globe was ice locked! The same people who would argue to the death that black was in fact white,and I must be looking at it from the wrong angle somehow. In a world of global cooling,would a whole catalogue of extreme and unusual heat events constitute a 'problem' with the trajectory we thought we were on,or would it not?
Ah,cooling,now that'd be a beauty to grapple with! What's the problem with a little warming anyway? Old ground that's been covered before,I know,but all the people who haven't much interest in this sorta thing have probably never stopped for one moment to actually ponder what it implies apart from the exclusively doom dominated angle they are being sold.Imagine all the land that would become arable and inhabitable as the cold recedes,providing much needed space for the exploding poulation we have right now! Cooling of course would mean cramming all those extra millions into an ever shrinking area. Ok so I've a preference for cold rather than heat(in the context of the UK climate) but don't let anyone think for one moment that I don't buy AGW for the reason that I might not see snow again.Get real. It wouldn't be the end of my world where I'd be reduced to a sobbing wreck. A little extra warmth would benefit many,many times more than it would trouble. A world of easy agriculture and hey,an attendant and inevitable decline in the need and use for...fossil fuels! And that's from the viewpoint of where we're at now,not looking from a colder perspective. Imagine the horrors and abject human misery and suffering which a cooling world will bring (as more and more are now starting to envisage). The myriad benefits of a warmer world compared to the zero benefits and a whole host of catastrophes of a cooler one don't bear much thinking about. So why oh why the (futile anyway) fervent need to stop warming in a world which will soon be 'struggling' to maintain it's current CO2 output? Answer:there's no need to stop beneficial warming,because that's not what it's actually about!! So,as a denier and one who can't confront the awful gravity of the situation,what is it that I'm actually 'denying'?
Have I gone on for too long and wandered a little OT? Sorry,back to bed now while I let the remnants of 'flu work me over. Catch y'all later.
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Here's some analysis for folks, quite interesting reading having it broken down in this way. It's in four parts, the links for all are listed:
http://omniclimate.wordpress.com/2008/01/2...ank-analysis-i/
Sorry Jethro,not being ignorant but I got distracted sufficiently by my previous post to mention this. Looks very interesting and I'll peruse it fully when I've awoken later and hopefully shrugged off some more of this nagging 'flu's effects. Of course,certain 'types' will have a quick glance at it and decide they've seen enough...
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Good morning. 'Tis indeed good too;I can hear the capricious wind rising in fits and starts as it moans around the eaves,and the soft occasional swishing sound of rain against the window. The wind is following it's own trend as is the rising world temp...up,down,up,down,up,down,but the underlying trend is ever upwards. Sometime in the next few hours the wind velocity will arrive at a smoothed peak,though even then there will be fleeting moments of relative calm. As with world temps,it will maintain the peak for a while and then start to decline.Certainly,during that decline there will be the odd gust that will far exceed the mean peak. And so it is with global temps. As TWS points out elsewhere world temps have by all accounts risen by 0.5C over 30 years. The last figure I saw suggested 1C! Does anyone really know,can anyone really know to any meaningful degree? How much does that come to over the last 10,when we've been churning out the CO2 at unmatched rates? What would the difference be if we had added no CO2? Would anyone have cared to look for a reason and for something to blame and thus 'deal with'? Of course not.
So here we are during these warmer times. Are the recent and ongoing 'cold intrusions' to be seen as manifestations of the coming cooldown,or are they the last vestiges of a bygone era making their final flourish before departing forever,like an elderly wolf in it's cave who everyone thought was now harmless but occasionally popping out to bite,just to remind everyone that it still has teeth? Sorry,got the romantic head on,must be the weather and the overhang of this damn 'flu that's frying my synapses. If I was a gambling type I know where my money would go. As for everyone else I neither know nor care. My electric blanket beckons so I will go to it,and there I will lie whilst the haunting song of wind and rain induces dreams and visions in my fevered mind. Sniff.
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F.A.O. Diessoli. Profuse apologies if you derived any insult from my earlier post. None intended,sincerely. Just the way I come over sometimes due to my inferiority as a wordsmith which I DID intend and as a compliment (that includes you,Stratos,though you can be as abrasive as the best of 'em)! Like it or not though,there are very few people who sit squarely on the fence over this whether they realise it or not,and such biases do manifest themselves in posts however hard they try to disguise them,wouldn't you agree? I've no such desire to suppress things though and gladly nail my colours to the mast. I've not much to say about your response to my post;I've took it on board and accept it graciously,thanks.
One more thing to add though for everyone's dissection regarding 'trends'. Consider 1998,and whilst it achieved it's heat status with the help of well documented natural factors,just how much CO2 have we churned out since then,a full 10 years ago? It would appear that given the miniscule and even debatable rise in temps since then,together with the astonishing severity and duration of this young year's manifold 'cold outbreaks', this collossal and ever increasing output of CO2 is struggling to hold it's own against the implacable edifice of nature. To clarify,when I mentioned record breaking cold 'from all over the place' I was referring exclusively to the NH,after all it is only winter 'up' here!
As you're from 'down under' Diessoli,you might not be aware of the latest EU brainwave,that being the banning of patio heaters in an attempt to tackle climate change. I just love the use of the word 'tackle'. What springs to my addled mind is a bunch of ministers swapping their suits for overalls and boiler suits,rolling their sleeves up and wading in for a fight with nature.Sorry! Just when you think they cannot possibly get any more ridiculous they go and prove beyond doubt that they most certainly can. I can barely wait for the next one. OK everyone,relax. We've got climate change on the run now that we've got shot of those pesky patio heaters etc,etc. Oh look,China and India have punted out more CO2 in an hour than those patio heaters would have done in a hundred thousand years. Oh well,never mind. I'm not defending patio heaters btw,can't afford one or a patio.
Finally to Roo. You can stop going on about John Casey (aka SSRC) now! I did say at the time that I didn't necessarily agree with the guy but was merely bringing it to everyone's attention. Fraudsters,charlatans and everyone else who is out on the make from 'climate change' (from both sides ) deserves to be exposed. You did that,good on you. I am however keeping tabs on them and will bring any news on their latest doings to this forum for everyone to take a look at. At the time of writing there's been nothing new from them since 14th Jan. Probably packed up and gone away!
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Mainly for the benefit of Stratos Ferric and Diessoli regarding visible evidence that is there for all to see,as you requested. See the other thread recently started by Noggin, 'are the wheels coming off...?'
I have to hand it to you,you're brilliant wordsmiths and for many readers I suspect you can turn around a hopeless situation to your advantage,finished off with a dressing of technicality and a theoretical explanation of everything which leaves some wondering if it's worth the bother of arguing. Doesn't faze laserguy,I'm in it for the long haul until this madness is revealed! Makes you wonder though what the motives are for the disagreement. Probably just to save face,as like I said we would all be victims in one way or another of significant global climate change. All the predictions,which amount to little more than amped-up guesses bother me none. They won't happen,and even if they did the consequences would be as nothing compared to a global temp even slightly below the 'norm'. Easy to dismiss and explain away the points made in Noggin's post on the other thread (and they are just brushing the surface,I might add),but imagine if they had been evidence of warming,not cooling events! You'd have seized upon them like a yard-dog thrown a pork pie as further undisputable evidence of 'warming'.
So here we are in 2008,still in the first month(ok,a month is nothing in climate terms)but we are being inundated from the off with record low temps from all over the place. Not only are we seeing a continuation of 'normal' events (despite this 'warming' which has apparently been plaguing us for years and years now) but a list of extreme cold events as long as your arm thrown in for good measure. Like going to the doctor with a growth on your neck which you can see getting bigger by the day,only for him to tell you "no,no it's actually shrinking,it just looks that way because the rest of your body is getting smaller,faster"! Words are powerful tools,but have limitations. Here we are arguing about temperature rises amounting to fractions of a degree (such accuracy on bodies as vast and dynamic as the atmosphere and oceans has to be taken with a pinch of salt and a very suspicious gaze at the informants,particularly in the face of very real,tangible,undeniable evidence to the contrary). Concerning our own neck of the woods,yes we've had a run of spectacularly bad winters from a cold lovers perspective,but they'll be back. Swings and roundabouts a la previous runs of mild winters and indeed extremely cold ones. Of course,the present run is being seized upon as 'evidence' of climate change,just as last years washout cool summer was.Yawn.
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Of course climate change 'is real and has to be tackled'. They'd be out of a job for a start! Surely we would ALL be victim to this great climatic calamity were it real,so why does a VERY large and growing body who have no vested interest in it dismiss it totally? I've got a young son and believe me I fear the world he's going to be an adult in,but climate change doesn't figure in it one iota,certainly not changes brought about by us,at least.
AGW groups can spout forth any number of 'facts' and statistics and dream up whatever scenario they like to keep their momentum,but the visible evidence that is plain for all to see and cannot be denied will win out at the end of the day. Boy do we need to cut rampant consumerism,FF usage,waste and our polluting ways,but please,not in the name of climate change.
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So, will 2008 (a single year) be the 'year agw leaves the room'?
It's been building up to this point for a while. What I mean is,2008 being the year when it's no longer possible to maintain the pretense. FWIW, I've no problem with 'green',environmental policies as such,only the fact that they are being paraded under climate change instead of the real reasons,the fact that we're going to be taxed to death for no good reason,the fact that many thousands if not millions have come to depend on scaremongering and hype for their livelihoods and are actively conning people that they can actually control climate.
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Now you've gone and blown it. Being serious and all that ...
Time for normal service to be resumed. The usual suspects will be along with meaningless stats and arguments of "if,but,well" etc. Give it up! Sure we're warming,that alleged 1C rise over what,30 years is really out of control.
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.ph...wfall-increase/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/2...ther/index.html
Before anyone states the b****ing obvious,sure there's nothing untoward about China snow. But look at the severity (worst for 50 years ) and the fact that this sort of thing is rapidly becoming commonplace all over the world and in places you wouldn't expect(except here,yet!). AGW adherants should have let go of the ascending balloon's string long ago;it's a long way to fall to Earth now. Reports like these from around the world are doing the AGW cause no favours whatsoever,thank goodness. Look,if our CO2 had the alleged effect of raising temperature then we're flirting with disaster by reducing it. What's it to be,a lush world of plenty where we're not voraciously burning every bit of oil,gas,coal we can lay our hands on because we don't need to courtesy of benign climate and weather? Or a world of cold,hunger,misery and death and one where resources are plundered at an even more alarming rate in a futile attempt to keep warm and eat? Climate change/CO2 means nothing now,it's...all...about...energy...resources. Oh and sustaining the industry that's mushroomed around it. An awful lot of people have got an awful lot to lose if it 'goes away'. 2008:the year AGW leaves the room while no-one's looking.
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If the climate is as I now believe following a naturaly occuring cycle,reports such as this will become commonplace in the ensuing years.
Only if you know where to look for them,H! Government and media will perpetuate the global warming malarkey until it's impossible to maintain it. Won't be long now. The fallout will be spectacular.
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Lol. Thanks for that Chris, hadn't seen it; so to sum up then, they haven't got a clue. Hands up all those who think they put numbers on scraps of paper then take turns to pull them out of the hat....
Something I've been asking myself for a while! Some sources say a really massive maximum,others say the sun will barely wake from its current deep sleep. I tend to favour the latter since this cycle is almost a full twelve months late and appears to be in need of a heavy dose of 'choke' to get going! As of today the sunspot number is nil,nada,zilch. A late,stuttering start indicates an ultimately supressed maximum,apparently. Here comes the ice age
! As always,we have to wait and see... -
I know from personal experience that even when the awful truth of a situation is spelt out for us, as clear as clear can be, we still seek to deny it and find reasons why it cannot be so.
The first recognised stage of bereavement is denial and this is but the extreme face of the 'normal' situation in which we all mentally exist.
When we are forced to accept a loved ones mortality, and their loss to us, we are put in a position of being made consciously aware of this major psychological driver ( as it is dragged up into 'full conciousness') and, as anyone suffering in this way will know, it is neither a pleasant place to mentally reside nor is it a place where we can easily focus on anything but our loss.
Forgive my apparent thickness GW,but I can't work out if the quote extracted from your post above is aimed at me or not! I'd like to point out though,that even though I am an unashamed 'denier' of AGW I am no stranger to bereavement;indeed I have been to the 'other side' myself. I can truthfully say that death holds no fear for me,other than the implications for my dependants. How this ties in with your psychological analysis, (either of AGW denialists or the revelations to come concerning our utter dependance on FF's )I'm not sure. Y'know,this may sound simplistic but I look forward to the day when life becomes slower,less driven,money orientated,all that stuff. I'm sick of it.There's nothing there for me to deny,so bring it on! It's the transition from our way of life as we know it now to whatever it becomes that's,ahem,daunting. Huge changes are-a-coming,and that's a given. As an individual I have no power to alter the course of future events,just make plans to ride the coming storm on a personal level. Meanwhile,billions are being spent on climatologists to keep telling us we're doomed when what they should be doing is feeding the world's hungry. All that money recently given by us taxpayers (our money!) to India and China when they do not need it. Personally I think that's an insurance policy to ensure that those soon-to-be superpowers are on our side when nuclear conflict over fossil fuels erupts between them and the US. Just my opinion mind,but it ain't rocket science.
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No dramatic hyperbole in there then. The supply of fossil fuel still stretches several hundred years,..........
The sort of dramatic hyperbole that climate change disaster peddlers never demonstrate,you mean? I admire your optimism,SF,but it is wildly misplaced. The assumption that FF's will last for 'hundreds' of years is all well and good assuming that the population remains stable and developing nations,well,stop developing. As it is,both are exploding and the dwindling cup is being emptied at an ever increasing rate. Whilst FF's have a long time (however you quantify that )to go before total depletion,it is the distribution of what is available at any given time amongst a growing consumer base that is the problem. Like having a rush on a new computer game at Christmas but the stores have sold out due to demand so you'll just have to wait 'til the next consignment arrives. Oh and because everyone wants it so badly we can charge whatever we like,we know they'll find the money.
Industrial scale production using wind turbines? Laughable really,but even if all the energy requirements could be met in this way,what would they actually make in said factories with all this lovely cheap power,considering that FF's are the foundation of thousands of chemicals and chemical processes? Like having a top of the range Aga but no food in the larder. The feats of technology that you mention (including the carbon dioxide laser
are,when you really get down to it,products or dependants of FF's. Our entire way of being depends on it and there is and can never be a panacea to replace FF's,especially oil. Everything else is inferior sticking plaster. As endlessly resourceful as man is,as you point out,we would quite probably be stuck in the dark ages if not for the discovery and utilisation of FF's,the magic elixir that breathed life into ideas. I may well be at loggerheads with the likes of Magpie,GW and others wrt the connection between FF's and climate change,but I concur with them completely in the observation that we are indeed stuffed. Like the last few grains of sand passing through the venturi of an egg-timer,there'll be an eerie stillness when the last one falls,to be replaced by...what? Climate change,where is thy sting! I can just see it,folk wandering around in a Mad Maxian landscape saying "gosh,it's warm today". Best case scenario,hope that's the outcome instead of cooling. Nature will decide that,not us. Oh well,off to work while it's still there. -
AGW and CC provides the demand and motivation to decouple the west from the inevitable economic crippling of fossil fuel reliance. It provides the justification to act now and before the oil runs out when it will be too late.
Pretty good assessment there FFO.
But why should the invented tool of AGW be necessary? What's wrong with telling it like it is wrt dependance on finite fossil fuels,a point I have consistently maintained? Perhaps the powers that be have decided that AGW is the friendly ,relatively acceptable face of a world collapsing in synch with fossil fuel supplies? When the bloodbath starts,how folk will wish that AGW was real and the main thing to worry about. Has anyone invented the plutonium powered road vehicle yet,or devised a way of running industrial manufacturing on wind turbines etc?
GW,I'm starting to understand your doom-laden posts and I agree totally that the Industrial Revolution was probably,nay definitely the embryo that would grow to be the end of the world! But we weren't around way back when so we can hardly accept blame for the regime and way of life we were born into. All spilt milk now,of course.
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Check this out.
http://www.carbon-connections.org/default.aspx
I trust AGWer's all over the country will be queuing up for the privilege with the necessary £50 to hand. Personally I wouldn't go if they paid me. I've enough nonsense to endure in everyday life without wilfully shelling out for more.
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Joe may think Iran is somewhere like India that has blistering heat all year round,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...7191579,00.html
Apparently now,it doesn't!
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wind is 0mph here
Your anemometer is broken.
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This link? http://www.spaceandscience.net/id16.html
Yes quite right, it is the commentator's, not NASA's views.
The article states: "in the meantime we will do our best to spread the word along with NASA and others who can see what is about to take place for the Earth's climate". At the top of the article it states that a press conference is scheduled for later this month.
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D'ya know, though it is a very bad thing for me to feel, I'll be glad when we witness
the first catastrophic impact on the developed world of our industrial tinkerings if only to silence the inane waffle of the vocal minority!
From the amount of new and visible crevaces to the rear of Mcmurdo and the alarming growth in 'my crack' by Rooservelt island I'll not have that long to wait............
Me, Calrissian and the web-bots.........awaiting your end.
When what we should have done is stayed in wattle and daub huts,been prey to any and all infections which came along,stuck with horse and cart etc etc etc... ah well,all dust in the wind now.
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Were we? We were told that the Arctic would continue it's steady decline in ice levels it didn't did it?
Which means that 'they' haven't a clue what they're on about or massive unaccounted for natural factors are showing their hand? 2008 - the year AGW slips quietly into the night.
! As always,we have to wait and see...
are,when you really get down to it,products or dependants of FF's. Our entire way of being depends on it and there is and can never be a panacea to replace FF's,especially oil. Everything else is inferior sticking plaster. As endlessly resourceful as man is,as you point out,we would quite probably be stuck in the dark ages if not for the discovery and utilisation of FF's,the magic elixir that breathed life into ideas. I may well be at loggerheads with the likes of Magpie,GW and others wrt the connection between FF's and climate change,but I concur with them completely in the observation that we are indeed stuffed. Like the last few grains of sand passing through the venturi of an egg-timer,there'll be an eerie stillness when the last one falls,to be replaced by...what? Climate change,where is thy sting! I can just see it,folk wandering around in a Mad Maxian landscape saying "gosh,it's warm today". Best case scenario,hope that's the outcome instead of cooling. Nature will decide that,not us. Oh well,off to work while it's still there.
Ah perhaps we're going to cool after all
in Space, Science & nature
Posted
http://www.ilovemycarbondioxide.com/pdf/So..._NY_Mar2_08.pdf
This is a very worthwhile read. Please don't be put off by the 'i love my carbon dioxide' bit though! I'm well aware that'll raise a few groans!
To add my own twopenn'orth. Many have pointed out that the sun elevates our temperature from what would otherwise be pretty close to -273C (absolute zero) to the range we experience now. Of course,without the atmospheric blanket it would be subject to incredible extremes. The point being,how can anyone suggest that the sun's role is so insignificant,and how can anyone suggest that the sun is so incredibly stable that it's variance over decades or centuries can be mapped with any kind of accuracy? Every second,the sun converts,by nuclear fusion,around four million tonnes of hydrogen into helium. Or so we are told. Who am I to argue? I've no idea how much mass is continually being lost by this process,and I've no idea what becomes of the helium thus produced. Does it just 'stay there',waiting until all the hydrogen has been fused to helium before the helium itself begins to fuse into carbon? Or is the fusing of helium to carbon concurrent with the fusion of hydrogen?? Someone on nw will have the answers to my elementary question,but my point is simply to show that surely the sun cannot be 'that' stable,given the extraordinarily vast (by our reckoning) nuclear processes ongoing. There are things going on in the sun that the greatest minds ever to grace the planet will never be able to fathom,of that I am quite certain. I've pretty much dismissed the effects of anthro CO2 on climate (and took the flak for it!),but to blame an alleged 0.7C rise over 100 ish years almost solely on CO2 whilst largely ignoring the sun beggars belief.