Mr Sleet

Recovery looking very good so far, much quicker bounce back than last year !

The NSDIC are now reporting that the Arctic ice minimum for 2008 has passed and is almost 0.5 sqkm up on 2007. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7619770.stm Back in April I said that it was a foregone conclusion that the 2008 minimum would be higher than that in 2007. I was ridiculed in some quarters by some who ( no names GW) who said that they expected all the ice to go. Observe the master and learn.

I don't think there's anything odd about that at all. Do you think these particles "just happened" to exist ? Now that would be odd ! I think you would be surprised how many scientist including in this field are practising Christians.

Looks that way although I wouldn't rule out a slight further decline. In 2007 the ice took a long time to start to grow back (long flat bit at minimum), will be interesting to see what happens this year. My forecast back in April (I think) that the 2008 minimum would be between 1 and 2 Msqkm above the 2007 minimum may not be far from the mark.

Cheers John. I'm not saying suffer in silence, just shrug shoulders, have confidence in what they are doing and get on with it. If scientists react in an emotional way to criticism, it is a slippery slope, because it is at that point that objectivity starts to go out the window and a siege mentality develops where bias is introduced, probably without them even realising it. I'm very suspicious, through experience, of scientists reacting emotionally when their work is challenged. Anyway going O/T now so will shut up :lol:

Bit emotional there OSM. Could you give me a better idea by naming some of these upset scientists, together with evidence that they are upset ? I am a scientist, paid very well in the private sector for the last 23 years as I do a very good job, cynicism doesn't come into it. John, I get an amount of criticism in my job, but deal with it. These guys should be professional and deal with it. If they are certain of themselves, it should be water off a ducks back.

I think many of the eminent Russian scientists are quite sceptical of AGW. However Putin signed the Kyoto protocol as he knew it would have no effect on the Russian economy and he could barter trade status favours from the EC. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that there are massive political forces at work here are being very naive. I do worry for the scientific community over AGW, if it turns out to be wrong, and we do not warm or possibly cool for the next 10 years or so, it could be a tremendous body blow to the credibility of the "scientific community", one which could take a long time to recover from. Good on you GWO, it's a free country (just) so all the best with it.

Very sorry to hear that your mother died so young GW. However, the report you quote is simply alarmist speculation. Plus the fact that we are no longer warming, I'm not concerned.

Roger, I enjoy reading your posts and I agree with you that soot deposition is a greater threat to arctic ice than ambient temperatures. However, the Siberian sector was very ice free even in July 2007..so I think 2008 will be much better.

Welcome stormynight, I hope it is the first of many posts. I can see where you are coming from but look at the graphics from 9 and 10th July. On the 9th I would say that concs looked quite healthy.On the 10th less so... However, no-one knows the future so we shall see ...but I think no catastrophe ...I'd be much more concerned about Iran and Israel if I wanted to talk catastrophe..

Hi David, thanks for visiting. I come from a position of scepticism that CO2 is the main driver of climate. As you suggest, global warming causes release of C02 due to factors such as lower solubility in oceans etc. so it's difficult to know which is driving which in todays situation. I think measurements show that the majority of the increase in CO2 at the moment is industrial in origin due to the higher C14 isotope level. (I see you have a chapter on natural and industrial CO2 in your book.) Do you think that this isotope question is a problem for your theory ? thanks Mark

I think we can share some good banter GW but I think most reasonable posters/lurkers can see that you have lost the plot old chap !

Argentinian scientists conduct experiments on cows to assess at what rate they are releasing methane into the atmosphere ( It's true, it's in The Sun! ) http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...icle1401179.ece I'm sure some on here can think of some good captions...

Patently untrue. Doesn't look like the eastern passage will open either. Just a thought, could we keep these environmental speculations to the Enviro thread ? Why duplicate it on both ?

When they stop underestimating the urban heat island effect I could begin to believe it. And I certainly would want to see a deal more evidence than that bled out in a loaded press release. And so the funding machine churns on and on.... :o

Well said Millennia. All this froth and bubble over web cam images, which unless they had been subject to this kind of scrutiny over the past 10 years, tell us absolutely nothing about trends.

The Dutch turned them Orange, no word of a lie !

Millennia I laready started this game back on Carinthians thread back I think in early May. I predicted a NH ice area minimum of 1-2 million sq.km above last years minimum. Gray Wolf predicted that it would all go.

I would say probably a bit of political "correction".

I don't need to go to a cesspit to know it's gonna smell

I agree, interesting stuff but the situation seems to have improved overnight !

The NW passage in the Canadian archipelago seems to have undergone a refreeze in the last week.

QED. I think that's amazing how you can tell water depth from a webcam image. I'm a keen angler and that skill would be useful, save plumbing the depth etc- what's the secret ? And with practically no effort at all, I have found this image 7/7/2003 showing a large melt pool at the NP !

Yep , you're quite right

One thing I find interesting is that the single year ice on the Siberian side which was supposed to vapourise upon Sun up seems to be very resilient.