Devonian
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Posts posted by Devonian
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7 hours ago, DAVID SNOW said:
This is an emergency, in fact a global catastrophe that supersedes all other previous emergencies ( give up fags and booze lol) the last thing you want now is a pantomime performance performed by
the look at me brigade, with their do as I say but not as I do doctrine.
If you think that then you're buying the caricature of the protestors put about by those seeking to denigrate them (see Piers above) and you're demanding that people be perfect. Both are ill advised imo and not how it is.
But, what do you suggest? That people don't protest about problems? That people say nothing leaving 'the masses' even more ignorant of what is happening? Doing that just leave those who don't care to carry on even more regardless. Maybe you think there need to be stronger protests, that violence perhaps war is the answer. XR don't think that is the right way forward, and I agree.
The world is indeed in a mess - and I can never understand why those pointing that out get attacked. Well, actually, I can understand it because usually they're attacked by those who want them silenced.
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16 minutes ago, DAVID SNOW said:
What it does do imo is to show them up to be the hypocrites that they are, this will not garner widespread public support, in fact their actions and total hypocrisy turns a crisis into a circus!
Tu quoque, my god it's the greatest way to solve the worlds problems
EG: 'People who protest about dangerous road accident blackspots? Get a life and get a job, you use roads too you hypocrites! People who campaigned to ban smoking? Wasters, get a job and, besides, I know some of you used to smoke you hypocrites! People who try to help other people get off alcohol & drugs? But many of you used alcohol & drugs too you hypocrites! People who, hundreds of years ago, wanted us to build sewers? Hypocrites, you chuck sewerage in the streets too!'
etc etc etc
Another change to my lifestyle? Pointing out tu quoque to people.....
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6 hours ago, Snowyowl9 said:
Answer a simple question just like a politician but much worse.
All of this nonsense is now getting out of control.
Looks like 'project fear extinction rebellion' to me...
And he tries to portray her as a hypocrite - practice what you preach he says, then he ranted on and on and then told her to answer the question (though how she could when he was ranting on beats me )... Still, he's right, showing her to be a hypocrite will make the temperature fall and the amount of the CO2 in the atmosphere fall? Showing XR to be hypocrites will make it all go away?
I think not...
My positive lifestyle change to come out of that? Trying to ensure I don't have to listen to Piers ranting on again...
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3 hours ago, hooch5 said:
re; Volcanic eruptions, surely there have Historically been some huge eruptions producing millions of tonnes of sulphur - Co2 etc, these massive events have been recorded to drop the Earths temp on a Global scale, also have the 2 World War events been taken into account, the uptick in manufacturing on a global scale would also have effects on output levels, and then the 1000s of Nuclear tests also on a global scale ripping the atmosphere bandings to sheds and sending increased heat extremes into those areas.
I believe there are many other factors yet to be considered allowing these Co2 levels to increase.
However, consider this, if the Earth cooled significantly it would have a worse effect on Humanity and everything that survives on her.
Just my thoughts.
This is an interesting article that, I'm afraid, points out that volcanoes produce far less CO2 than human activity. Nor did the two world wars have much effect on the rise in CO2 and the nuclear tests likewise.
What does have an effect is that every year human activity adds a few billions of tonnes of CO2 to the atmosphere. Each year, every year. Looking at the the carbon cycle what we produce each year is tiny compared to the total of CO2 in the carbon cycle but the point is that every year we add billions of tonnes of CO2 to the carbon cycle. Over the last century that has caused atmosphere CO2 to rise from 280ppm to 410ppm (a huge change to the whole atmosphere) and there really is no other explanation other than that we are responsible.
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2 hours ago, knocker said:
I'm afraid a lot of it is but not all by a long chalk, but there is no easy way round this. It's also quite expensive, or it was when I purchased it.
Met O library time it is then...
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2 hours ago, knocker said:
I can recommend a very fine book on that subject. "Principles of Planetary Climate". by Raymond T. Pierrehumbert.
And by the same person this is a must read
Infrared radiation and planetary temperature
https://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/PhysTodayRT2011.pdf
It would be wrong of me to say that beyond the first few paragraphs I didn't find the paper very heavy going. I know when I'm beat and (unlike so many laymen) when I'm reading something beyond me by someone who knows better than me.
Would the book be as heavy going?
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16 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:
Exactly...life on earth and in the oceans flourished when CO2 was much higher than today and the world was much warmer than today..i was watching a documentary by PBS on you tube about when Antarctica was green and full of tropical tress and plants and full of different mammals that no longer exist today due to the fact the world began to cool..if humans had been around then would we be chaining ourselves to structures and complaining about global cooling destroying eco systems?
No, because the changes would be imperceptibly slow and we wouldn't be the cause. What we might cause in a century took hundreds of thousands of years if not millions of years back then.
Besides, I just don't want my name to be on the list of 'helped the destruction going on'. Sorry, but I don't.
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1 hour ago, weirpig said:
Burning fossil fuels are not mostly the cause of climate change but they could be the reason why change is accelerating I agree in regard to the earth being degraded we have taken oil from the planet for years that has to have an affect mass deforestation also is a major problem so yeah I agree I just think we are going about it the wrong way
My bad English, I meant most of what we are causing is because of burning fossil fuels.
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1 minute ago, DAVID SNOW said:
Remove the humans to save the planet then?
No, that would be to put words in my mouth...
I said NO such thing! And I would not think such a thing!
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5 minutes ago, weirpig said:
Yep you would think people would be better informed regarding co levels especially if they are a member of such an organisation no doubt the world is warming but there is no scientist that I'm aware of who thinks the world will end in 50 years
I agree. But then in any community you get diversity. Broadly XR get it.
And in 50 years? I will (I'm sad to say) be surprised if the world isn't another degree plus warmer, that some animals and birds we both know well will be effectively extinct in the wild and that changes we would be shocked at will have happened to the broader environment.
I expect attacks for such views.
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20 minutes ago, SteveB said:
The daft thing is, climate deniers is such a silly term, Climate changes , Earth warms and cools, it always has and always will. There's no denying that!
I don't deny any of that. Nor do I deny that human activities (burning fossil fuels mostly) are causing climate change. Nor do I deny that this planet is being degraded - its seas over fished, forests being chopped down, animals losing habitat, insect being killed. I'm thus supportive of XR.
Btw, I have a fixed address, I work, I'm not a pensioner - probably quite like you actually...
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26 minutes ago, Summer Sun said:
They have refused to leave peacefully, so specialist police teams are getting them out the way themselves with winches
1 down 4 to go
No.
I'm confident they have just refused to leave. If you can show where they haven't been peaceful, but instead been violent, please post any examples. I'm happy to condemn violence!
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9 minutes ago, SteveB said:
I'm afraid it has, could you explain?
My reply would be how the world worked IF Tu quoque was how the world works. As it is alleging, or even pointing out, someone is a hypocrite doesn't alter whether what they say is right or not.
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30 minutes ago, SteveB said:
I love they way they are now abbreviated, give them so much more gravitas ...... XRers
I abbreviated them because I couldn't be bothered to write 'Extinction Rebellion protestors' every time.
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34 minutes ago, SteveB said:
And when that does happen - humans had nothing to do with it.
Humm, the irony seems to have been lost on you.
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17 minutes ago, weirpig said:
if the amateurs can stop with the attempted put downs. In regard to Coleman and her support for Rebielion ive just read that she was joined in this bout of support by Stephen Fry and Asim Chaudry Yes thats right the same Fry who boasted he drives around in his London cab to avoid the congestion charge who also not long ago starred in a commercial regarding heathrow Airport . What also struck me was the picture i saw with both Caudry and Coleman they both looked very depressed with the situation that rebellion are highlighting. Never mind im sure the money they received from the recent BA commercials will soften the blow It makes you think if celebrities like this just do it so they remain in the public domain. of course not i jest
Something amazing just happened! The moment you exposed some hypocrisy the temperature of the world fell back .8C and the population of threatened species jumped back to normal and CO2 fell back to 280ppm.
So now there is nothing to be at all concerned about. Fantastic news!!!
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7 minutes ago, SteveB said:
What a bunch of losers. Instead of just standing around protesting and stopping every day folk getting on with their lives, why don' they do something constructive & protest at the same time, like litter picking - beach cleaning etc...... oh wait! that means doing a bit of hard graft..... losers the lot of them.
I know some XRers and beach cleaning and litter picking are the kind of things they also do.
Oh, and remember, the picture that was supposed to show litter left by an XR protest was fake..
Graft? Do you know what it is then? Have you spent part of your life slogging about on a farm in all weathers like I have?
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13 minutes ago, DAVID SNOW said:
The overthrowing of the capitalist system to save the planet.
Ahhhh, you were replying to GW's post? Sorry, that wasn't clear to me.
Anyway, can any of us be free of hypocrisy? Are you free of hypocrisy?
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13 hours ago, DAVID SNOW said:
A true 'believer' would certainly not be using the internet/social media or electricity for that matter to 'spread' the word, you cant have it both ways lol!
Let he or she without hypocrisy cast the first stone?
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5 hours ago, BornFromTheVoid said:
This all feels a bit like a gambler. Someone that had a short period of success but now is almost broke, with his home, family, and career on the line. He starts asking around for solutions, but with the caveat that nobody suggests he stops gambling or reduce how much he gambles. Anyone that suggests those things he decries as naive and unrealistic, insinuates ulterior motives for suggesting them and uses whatever he can to try attack their character.
What an excellent simile
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17 minutes ago, SteveB said:
Wow, just wow.
^^^ Is my reaction to those who glibly say we've had it, or there is nothing we can do, or behave like gamblers as per BFTV'd excellent point above.
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8 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:
the problem here is many scientists have been saying this since the late 1980s and we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf??..what happens in 10 years if the world looks exactly the same as now and floods, droughts, hurricanes and tornadoes are no different to now? what if eco systems don't collapse? what if people aren't dying in their millions?...yes the world is getting warmer but is the Apocalypse being branded around really going to happen? whats the real story here behind the alarmist headlines? if we could sort the wheat from the chaff then maybe we can come up with some real world solutions?
In ten years time? A warmer world and a world more obviously degraded - and all as has been predicted.
What is the real story behind the sceptic headlines? Why don't people want to see the bleeding obvious?
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50 minutes ago, weirpig said:
No Idea. What number of the cult are you ?.
Poor response. You can do better.
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1 hour ago, weirpig said:
Earth is warming faster than it ever has done many Scientists believe that within a decade or so it may be to late to reverse the process in other words after that date we are buggered. We all Know the situation most people agree that we are in need of change and quick I and many others can chant this from the rooftops but alas that will not alter nothing. What we need is a plan a coordinated assault that us as a world can do to stem the problem in a very short amount of time. Travelling to America in a boat skipping school on a fridays demonstartions around city centres will not change this. Greta is a PR dream for highlighting the cause of Climate change but what she does not do is give us a plan on how to stop it. Visiting Countries and lambasting leaders of countries is all well and good but the fact stays the same that IMo to stop or even stem climate change our lives will have to change beyond our wildest dreams. something the vast people of the west just will not do. Rebillion are on the other side of the Spectrum they give us their solutions to combat climate change but their plans will never work because that would result in all of us to stop flying and over 30 million cars to be removed from the street within the next 3 years. People are also very cynical of Greta (not her fault) But when you have a girl who is the parents of a famous singer and a father and grandfather who are both actors and film directors Plus a young singer in the form of her sister eyebrows will be raised Of course when you add on that one of her most vocal supporters is a member of the swedish parliament whos main business is Green energy supplies it does not make it any easier. If Greta is our only hope then im afraid the earth will burn.
What you seem to be saying is 'we need to do X, but the people wont do X so we need a plan that does X without doing X'.
Climate Questions
in Climate Change
Posted
Yes, Ice-albedo feedback is a well know, and long known, phenomena. You are right about the consequences of it.
Indeed, aiui, a good portion of the projected modeled warming is due to ice-albedo warming - though exactly how much I'm not sure.
As to 'too much reliance being placed on the ability of the human race to brake or even reverse the process.' well, (as bftv said in this post) 'This all feels a bit like a gambler. Someone that had a short period of success but now is almost broke, with his home, family, and career on the line. He starts asking around for solutions, but with the caveat that nobody suggests he stops gambling or reduce how much he gambles. Anyone that suggests those things he decries as naive and unrealistic, insinuates ulterior motives for suggesting them and uses whatever he can to try attack their character.'