noggin

5! You're a hard taskmaster! Time to get the old thinking cap back on..... :blink:

Hope I can use this thread to make a point.....many people ridicule the "Ice-age Now" website, but if I stand back and try to look through dispassionate eyes, it seems to me that the media hype about GW is at an equally "up for ridicule" state. Both sides trying to shout the other down. Hysteria setting in. Who to believe? :lol:

What about fatalism? The "if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen and there ain't nothin' I can do about it" attitude. I'm enjoying this thread, snowsure..... thanks for starting it. Perhaps we could have one afterwards with suggestions about what the next thing is that will sweep the Earth and wipe most of us out. :lol:

Howzabout innate selfishness? My observations of people generally, over the past half century, indicate that a very large proportion of people are only concerned with themselves and the "here and now". I'm not saying that these people are doing this "positively" or "deliberately", more that it doesn't occur to them to be any other way. Also, there are the "ignorant" people..........those who genuinely aren't aware of any effects that their behaviour may or may not have on the world around them. Then there are the smaller groups, such as the cynics ("it's all a plot by the governments and media"), the ostriches and the "positively" selfish. Don't forget SARS and bird flu!

It's good to see you back, Carinth.....it wasn't the same without you. Quite a fan club you've got going on here! :lol: kind regards noggin

I do remember dear Michael Fish having new stickers made for his weather map in about 1981, because he didn't have any minus 28 ones! Blimey, that was a cold night.......I had to walk to work as the buses had been taken off the road. Mind you, I'm one of the old codgers who remembers 1963 as well!

We could tell them where to stuff their taxes and then they'd be taxidermists too! Sorry, I'm not very funny....it's the way I tell 'em....

If climate change is caused by pollution by us humans, then what can I do about it? I already am as environmentally friendly as I can be. It makes me really angry when I see stupid people in their un-necessarily huge cars belching out goodness-knows-what muck. Stupid people who try to keep up with the Joneses because for some reason material possessions seem to be what is important to them...what about all the pollution caused by the manufacturing processes? What about disposal of the "stuff" once a new and improved "one" comes out? People who just "have" to have three or four foreign holidays a year because they work "so hard" and deserve these "treats" without a thought of what muck the aircraft are belching out. ........and half the time they are up to their eyeballs in debt to get it all. I try to be a good Earthling, as do many people, but all around me I see so many people who don't, who care only for their selfish selves. Makes me want to weep........

Not exactly climate-change-induced, but Dennis Wheatley's book "Sixty Days To Live" is a cracker. Written in 1939 by this very clever man (who was called on to advise the war cabinet) it tells of the climatic, social and political consequences of a collision between Earth and a large comet. Absolutely brilliant, even 68 years on. I wasn't around when he wrote it! It is one of those books that will never lose it's well-earned place in my bookcase.

Cheers, Tamara. I think we may be of the same opinion on a few things (!) and I am always glad to see your excellent posts which often say what I have been trying (and failing) to say! Time will tell, time will tell........ PS My apologies to Carinthian for hijacking his excellent (as always) thread.

Just that one sentence can be read two ways! It could be read as you seem to have read it or it could be read that the decline has stalled because this year's minimum has not reached record-breakingly low coverage. My comments are never facetious, BTW, they are simply how I see things and read things and observe things. :o

Well, we've had the past 3 Winters.....if this Winter proves to turn out to be "cold", will you accept that this could be a trend towards colder Winters? I am not talking Summers here, which are a separate issue, but Winters have been getting colder for the past 3 years. I know this, because I have observed it. I work outside for part of my working week and have a set of acute senses.

Thanks for the link, Wilson. That theory is the one to which I have adhered for many years and I am always pleased to see "professionals" mooting it! Any more links like that will be most welcome!

I completely agree with you, coldfingers. Unfortunately there is a lot of cynicism around and some people seem to look for things to criticise rather than things to praise. I like the MetO and find their forecasts to be the most accurate. They do not let emotion or desire cloud their judgement.

I love the hints of coldness in the forecast. Especially as the period in question contains my birthday! Seriously though, as I have said before (ad infinitum/nauseum) in my humble opinion, Winters for us hit a high, temperature-wise, a couple of years ago and they are now on a downward trend. regards heretic

Oh yes, it can! My understanding of your extract is that there is not less than there was last year (for whatever reason) and even though it is said that it looks like a continuation of the pattern of strongly below average sea ice extent, well it is not a reduction over last year, is it? Also, it would only be the fifth lowest extent. Is it not possible that a nadir has been reached regarding amounts of sea ice? You see, hope springs eternal for a cold lover. By the way, none of my posts are meant to be flippant....they are all genuinely-held opinions.

Why does it have to be scientists and academics who are right? Why can it not be the ordinary man/woman on the street who has noticed subtle changes in his/her own part of the world? Observation is the key for me. True I am talking about my own part of the world, but the observations of the ordinary man/woman seem to be pooh-poohed all too frequently to my way of thinking. Thankfully, I am coming across more and more eminent people who are coming around to my way of thinking ( B) ) and are saying that far more attention should be paid to observations over statistics. Somewhere in my untidy home I have the details of someone from Colorado University (an emeritus professor) who is of this mind. He is a climatologist and I will dig out the details when I have a few spare moments, so that I can have some back-up for my argument. I have details of others as well, but I am being specific to climate change here. I think that my argument is not so much to do with actual climate change, but more with what information is used to draw conclusions. I hope sense can be made of my drivellings.....I'm not much good at discussion but I know what I mean!

Oh no we're not! Totally agree with this. We must also remember that statistics aren't going to be much use inasmuch as there have been temperature "highs" which can, to my way of thinking, skew statistical indications of cooling down. Well, I know what I mean.....

It's great to see that more and more people are noticing/observing a change. I have felt like a social pariah many times for expressing my opinion here regarding a cooldown. I maintain that the heat for our islands peaked a couple of years ago and that we are on a downward trend temperature-wise. OK, we've not had record-breaking cold, but there are some highs which it might take a few years to come down from. Observation is what is required IMHO, never mind statistics....get out there and feel it and observe it!

Definitely. My grass is looking lush now, when just a week or so ago I thought I would have to be re-seeding it because it all looked so dead. It's amazing how quickly it picks up. The trees beyond my garden are also looking green and lush, although I have seen one or two trees that are just beginning to turn orange. Another very nippy start to the day although it'll probably turn quite warm later. As far as I am concerned, Autumn is creeping in!

Carinthian's Arctic ice reports are great. Although I cannot make any contribution to the discussions, I am an avid reader of them. Long may they continue and many thanks to Carinthian for his time and effort.

I am not very good at discussion and certainly would not be able to change anyone's beliefs or opinions, which is why I tend to post quietly about I what I believe. This chap removing blobs......unless I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick (quite possible!) this is the sort of thing that bothers me....manipulation of statistics. Re "observation"......I work outside for part of the week, all year round and have done for just over 30 years (not long to go for me pension!) and I think that I have developed an acute awareness of changing conditions. Hope that doesn't sound pompous I can't discuss things very well and often have trouble trying to explain what I mean, but hopefully it all comes across nicely! (I have a fear of arguments too, so please be gentle with me!) Cheers.

I am quietly sure that the heat-peak has been reached for us on our little islands. I think it is now to be a downward trend, temperature-wise. I would not rule out more "hot" times ahead, but I think they will be fewer and further apart and that records will not be broken with much frequency. For the future, I see a general downward trend in temperatures. A few transgressions along the way, but the general trend will be downwards. I base this on close "observation" of our climate. I have no faith in statistics, which I believe can be manipulated to produce the required results. Over the past few months I have come across some quite eminent people (both weathery type and non-weathery type) who have concluded that "observation" produces a better picture than statistics. Ahhhh, that's better....got it off me chest again!

oh, dear! For August, read July!

Yes, I'm sure we can still get a <1c month and the sooner the better! Can't stand stuff like we had in August. I suppose if I search hard enough there is something on the site about how the CETs have been this year. Apart from a hot August, I can't see any evidence of increasing temperatures this year. I would say that this is more evidence of the heat-up having peaked a couple of years ago, but that sort of thing tends to get me in trouble!