Yeti

The SE bias was epitomised recently when snow had fallen for the 2nd time in London, as well as many other parts of Britain, and they were discussing what to do to get the latest information. "Now of course local radio stations are keeping us all up to date - just tune into radio Berkshire, BBC Essex, radio Cambridgeshire, radio Kent and Southern Counties radio, all will give you the latest....." Meanwhile I had BBC radio York on and schools were closing all over the place and heavy snow was falling outside - but of course we don't feature in national news bulletins :unsure: The thing is that Aberdeen is a centre of population, being the size of York and the 3rd biggest city in Scotland.

Haha point taken, I couldn't help having a crack at Maryport There are much worse places in the NE (and Yorkshire). Although I do seem to remember reading somewhere that Cumbria was one of the poorest counties? Actually, having said that, I've just seen this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unite..._GDP_per_capita The NW comes in as slightly wealthier than Yorkshire and the Humber, and I would imagine that Cumbria is the wealthiest county in the NW considering that it takes into account Merseyside, Greater Manchester etc.

Yes but your point was that it's been an appalling winter in the N and yet we have definitely seen more snow. I have had 25 days of snow lying this winter; 24 falling, maximum depth of 10 inches (Leeds Bradford airport had 11 inches at one point) and there is still almost full cover in the garden today with 8cm in places. And yet none of this snow was well forecast, or had a mention in the media. The only places in the N that have missed out are Western Coasts and nearby, and Eastern Coasts but even these saw lots of snow on Thursday night. London overall has seen a lot less snow because it nearly all fell on one day, and there has been nothing like 2 weeks of snow on the ground. I still think the S has seen less snow than the N this cold spell, general.

The point is it's not just Aviemore. I have seen more snow than East Anglia (still have 10cm now in the garden) and this never got a mention. Nor were any of the warnings correct; ramps of 50cm for this area despite the radar showing 10cm max. In fact most of the snow fell when warnings weren't issued or were less severe. The fact is that the N has generally seen more snow this cold spell, but the media would lead you to think the opposite. I do take your point though about it being much rarer in the S than up here and in Scotland.

Last winter was a fair bit above average in the UK.

Not sure I agree with that - England's record temperatures exhibit a wider range than Scotland (-26 to 38 compared to -27 and 33 I think) and there is a huge difference between inland parts of the NE and the SW/SE (Scotland has no places that could be classed as "warm" in summer like London). However it experiences more extreme weather events than England (snow, cold and windstorms), which affect Scotland more severely. ...but currently are not countries and have no autonomy. The only place in England that has an argument for being very "different" in terms of language, history and heritage (similar to Scotland) is Cornwall.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That made me laugh did that!

Those areas aren't, and never have been, countries, whereas Scotland (compared to many areas in Europe such as Bavaria) has a very high degree of autonomy, on a par with the Basque Country and Cataluña.

I said "parts of the NE and Cumbria", as in, "parts of the NE and parts of Cumbria" Take a trip out to Maryport and you will see what I mean! Didn't you know, the North starts at Watford? I class Northern England as Yorkshire northwards.

I sent an email to the Metoffice this afternoon to see when the Jan CET was coming out. However, I was surprised by the comment at the bottom: Dear David Thank you for your enquiry. The Met Office is world renowned for its expertise and in order to best deal with your correspondence it has been forwarded to a colleague with specialist knowledge in the area you have outlined. At the Met Office we are committed to providing you with the information you requested quickly and accurately, although this will be subject to the complexity and nature of your enquiry. If you have any further questions or need additional information please contact the Weather Desk on 0870 9000 100 where one of our advisors will be happy to help you. The number is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Kind Regards Sarah Weather Desk Advisor Met Office, FitzRoy Road, Exeter, Devon, EX1 3PB, United Kingdom. Tel: 0870 900 0100 Fax: 0870 900 5050 Email: enquiries@metoffice.gov.uk http://www.metoffice.gov.uk Met Office climate change predictions can now be viewed on Google Earth http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/google/ Is there really any need to shove it down people's throats like this? It's a private email for God's sake! I can't help thinking it might have the opposite effect on people to what they want.

Yep, especially considering the countryside - Nern England is very similar to the Southern Uplands and the Lakes are like the Highlands (if a bit smaller!) Wrt the southern bias in the media - it's so obvious I cannot believe southerners cannot see it. The other day I was watching the news and they were talking of horrendous snow in the Midlands. The correspondent was there hyping up how bad it was and she was talking for ages about it, "blizzards", "drifting", "severe snowfall" etc. Then the presenter asked her how much had fallen and she said 2 inches. Now I was sitting there and snow was still falling; 4 inches had fallen the previous night (10 in total) and it didn't even get a mention. And I hardly live in a remote area! Leeds is 25 minutes away and it's the 4th biggest city in Britain. This to me proves the southern bias, it is beyond doubt.

Still snow on the roads and pavements here; 10cm in the back garden although it's getting patchy in places.

I agree, it's been excellent and I have seen a lot more snow than most places in the S. The problem is that this never gets reported, so southerners think they did a lot better. What's more, I still have 10cm of snow in the garden; snow has been lying for 2 weeks now which is something I'm sure nowhere in the S can claim. I think Scotland and Nern England are in the same boat really.

I also see room for Scotland to be independent; I'd just be worried about the future after oil, but then again, I'm no expert! It's certainly a great country and is very different to the UK, having had a separate history and culture for hundreds of years. And Edinburgh, without a shadow of doubt in my mind, is the finest city out there

I take your point but I suppose the difference between Scotland and Ireland is that Scotland does have the UKMO doing a reasonable job, whereas if Ireland gave up there would be no other Meto for them. It could be a devolved matter and hence something for the Scots to sort out for themselves. But is it really worth it? Only if the UKMO does a poor job for Scotland and if frequent complaining produces no results IMO.

Again you make some good points. I certainly agree about London and the South East; there is huge inequality about and you only need to come to Yorkshire to realise that England isn't all wealth. Yes, Harrogate is a wealthy town and Leeds is (arguably) on a par with Edinburgh for finance, but there are still some desperately poor areas around here - areas of Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield and of course other even poorer places in the North (Liverpool, parts of the NE and Cumbria). Scotland isn't free from inequality either - overall it's the 2nd wealthiest UK region, but compare the wealithiest areas of Edinburgh to the poorest areas of Glasgow and I think it would be self-explanatory. Glasgow, indeed, has some of the poorest places in the country - I read recently that one area had 97% of children growing up below the poverty line. Perhaps if we were to break down regions into smaller areas we would be able to distribute wealth more fairly. To be fair to Scotland, it doesn't charge English students as much as English universities do. I have applied to Edinburgh (awaiting a decision!) and whilst my 4 English choices will be £3200 per year, in Edinburgh I think it's about £1600 - not equal, but it's a sizeable reduction and would be enough to sway a decision either way. I suppose it's difficult to say whether Scottish unis would be swamped if they charged no fees to the English however; it might not make that much of a difference as in my experience finance doesn't seem on the agenda for most prospective students (hence why the London universities are still incredibly popular). Also, you can't really say it would be unfair on English students who chose to stay at home to pay more, because apart from Law students, you would be completely free to go to whatever uni you wanted and if you chose to stay in England you couldn't complain if the choice was there. Wrt comparing Scotland to Norway and Luxembourg, this is done a lot imo however, I don't think you can really compare any two countries. For example, Norway makes one heck of a lot of money through tourism, which Scotland fails to do despite having the most stunning scenery in the UK, arguably Europe (partly due to the weather mind). Although I must say it's a failure of the UK and Scottish government to exploit this resource more because if people in Europe knew how stunning Nern England and Scotland were, a lot more would come, of that I am sure. Luxembourg, on the other hand, is extremely important within the EU and NATO and a lot of its revenue comes from being centres of these two organisations. Switzerland, we all know about. Undoubtedly then, oil is vital for Scotland at the moment. However no advances in technology can prevent an end to the supply; all they can do is prolong this end. One day, Scotland will have to live withough oil. I believe two other important industries are information technology and banking; whether these are enough to support an independent state I don't pretend to know, but they are, at least, growing, and isn't Scotland resisting the credit crunch a lot better? (All those thrifty minds eh!) Regards David

OK well firstly I apologise if it came across as offensive I take your point about the high number of university graduates; however, the problem lies more in the country itself. There is no truly international city like London, nor is there any particularly large city like Madrid, London, Paris, Barcelona etc. which makes independence without oil rather tricky. And no one can deny that the oil won't last forever. Decent production will be nearly over by 2020 unless a major new field is found. Without oil things become a lot more difficult for Scotland. Also, I think it's unfair to say that we need to "give Scotland back" its oil. To be fair, you have seen many, many privileges over the years, university and nursing home fees to mention but two. You certainly get a better deal than the English, and we, ultimately, pay for this difference. Finally, I see it differently about there being "too many" English students about. We are the United Kingdom and should behave as such. English and Scottish students are all UK students, we are paying to fund Scottish universities at least as much as the Scots are so we should not be restricted in going there, just as Scots are most welcome here. In fact, we contribute more than any other group, and a hell of a lot more than EU students, so it seems a tad unfair that we then are the only group that has to pay AGAIN to go there. If you were a separate country such as Ireland, it would be a different story

I'm sorry but the question of Scottish finance makes me very angry! As far as I am aware, Scotland is given a disproportionate amount of money compared to England due to its relative poverty compared to England. However, whilst it's easy to say that it's poorer, if you look, I think it's the second or third wealthiest region in the UK, once you break England down into London/SE, Yorkshire and Humber etc. Scotland is significantly wealthier than Yorkshire and the Humber, but we see less money coming in. It's extremely unfair because Scots go to university for free, whereas we have to pay. In fact, if you come from anywhere within the EU except England, it's free. As far as I am concerned it doesn't deserve such treatment. After all, it adds little to the UK's economy as a whole; it has rich oil reserves (although now very depleted), but cannot compare to the financial industry of the SE (again, a question of population). Also, oil won't last for ever! So if it gets independence, which as you say is looking more and more likely, no doubt it will come back on its knees to England as it remembers the privilages it once had as part of the UK and oil has run out. Without oil, I'm afraid, there's little economic potential there, as beautiful and friendly a country as it is. A little OT but I had to say it. Wrt a Scottish Metoffice, I don't see any need, although I certainly think it should be broken down into smaller regions on the BBC especially, due to its climate being as varied as England's. That wouldn't happen - no doubt our taxes would increase to pay for a Scottish met office because of our "wealth"

Just sent an email to the Metoffice and this is their reply so far: Will let you know as soon as this expert gets back to me!

Just done that.

Yes sorry but I meant relatively, considering that many areas get to 2000-3000ft in England and Wales. Even so it has clearly made a big difference.

Ah but it's all about disappointment isn't it. To create an Abingdon, you have to be able to expect snow and then for that snow not to arrive.

Nice pics James! Despite the Cotswolds not being very high, it's nice they can make all the difference in these setups Quite a lot of snow there!

Greenhow is just after Pateley Bridge in Nidderdale. Carry on over the bridge and head UP! It's VERY steep! There is a pub in the village I believe it's the highest village in Yorkshire, but I can't be certain. If you carry on the road you get to Stump Cross Caverns, and eventually it drops down into Grassington (Wharfedale). In the village there is very often a lot of snow. During the cold zonality last month it had nearly a foot, whilst even in the highest parts of Harrogate there was nothing more than a transitory dusting.

Wow. It's getting tricky. We can't have Westminsters, Abingdons, Sillies, Wights... What's it going to be?