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Met4Cast

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Posts posted by Met4Cast

  1. 2 hours ago, keithlucky said:

    Big reversal coming,winter has a sting in it's tale.Expect rapid cooling as wind swing to easterly.

    No real sign of that currently & SSW’s do not always = cold weather of course. 

    Given the timeframes there’s a lot of uncertainty but current modelling doesn’t indicate a quick downwelling & tropospheric response to the early March SSW & the MJO won’t be particularly favourable for blocking (it may become so later). 

    I wouldn’t expect much impact until mid March at the earliest. 

    • Like 3
  2. On 14/02/2024 at 13:23, Met4Cast said:

    There's no real sign in this fluxing switching to poleward fluxing and as a result there isn't much forcing to amplify Atlantic ridging into high latitude blocking later this month, hence the forecasts (and this is well represented within NWP modelling) generally favouring an amplified Atlantic ridge sending energy SEwards, for the UK this will likely bring colder weather than the anomalous warmth we've been seeing/will see in the coming days but probably wont be enough for a notable cold spell or widespread snow risks. 

    Just over a week on & indeed transient Atlantic ridging seems the most likely weather pattern through this month, certainly a departure away from the recent anomalous warmth across the UK (and indeed Europe) but nothing overly sustained or notable as largely expected. Any snowfall in the coming week or two will be mostly restricted to higher ground in the north. 

    UN120-21.thumb.GIF.e8a5f77c53728d44755fdf1a94acb232.GIF

    Going forward I'd not be surprised to see this pattern repeat a few times, i.e Atlantic ridging before collapsing. The MJO signal has now decayed into the Circle of Death (COD) and is not currently driving global weather patterns, a result of this is an abrupt loss in westerly inertia triggered by a strong -MT event, led particularly by very strong -EAMT. 

    gltaum.90day.thumb.gif.55ea15924356bf58c5054c2c802d6759.gif

    There is now evidence of poleward propagating +AAM anomalies which should help to generate Atlantic ridging and amplify it away from Iberia (the opposite to the recent equatorward fluxing helping to strengthen the Iberian high). The forecast going forward is quite uncertain, the MJO seems likely to emerge into phase 4/5/6 but the direction of travel & amplitude is very hard to ascertain at the moment. A major and sustained (perhaps final warming) SSW looks to take place during early March helping to destabalise the polar field but there's currently little sign of these -ve anomalies downwelling to impact tropospheric patterns before the middle of March, again though this is a large uncertainty within the forecast period.

    I'm still of the opinion that early-mid March will feature an increasingly -NAO regime albeit probably not notably cold across the UK with the high never really gaining much in the way of amplitude due to the lack of tropical (MJO) forcing.

    Looking beyond the early March period is difficult, much will depend on the outcome of the major SSW (and any downwelling impacts) & the trajectory of the MJO, again currently uncertain. 

    • Like 5
  3. 2 hours ago, Methuselah said:

    But, haven't all this year's SSWs amounted to nothing; just like 2019's SSW amounted to nothing? IMO, something (AGW?) is outcompeting the usual teleconnective drivers. . . 🤔

    Yes, I think too much emphasis is being placed on this likely SSW in early March. Firstly because the timings involved here are worth mentioning, we've seen how poor modelling has been with SSW's this winter, why should we assume this one will be any differently? Secondly, an SSW in early March, assuming the usual 2 week lag we're looking at the 2nd half of March for tropospheric impact. Too little, too late imo. 

    That said - As stated a day or two ago, I do think a -NAO regime is more likely than not going into March regardless of a potential SSW or not. AAM tendency has fallen through the floor as the MJO now sits inside the COD, this removal of tropical forcing has caused the previously sustained +MT to collapse into strongly negative territory, as a result westerly inertia is now being scrubbed from the atmosphere.

    glcalctend_sig.90day.thumb.gif.165fbc136eeeec421bb2f9731de1e42f.gif

    Another way of visualising this is with the 850hPa anomaly hovmoller, a rather sharp increase in easterlies just west of the dateline following the collapse of the MJO.

    u_anom_30.5S-5N.thumb.gif.4264c78a71bb41552e57b97de246fecd.gif

    There are signs the MJO will return into phase 5/6 but the forecast on this is rather uncertain. The important part though is the sharp fall in momentum which is driving the pattern change currently advertised within NWP outputs. Atlantic ridging/Scandi trough scenario currently the favoured option but huge uncertainty over Scandinavia with regards to possible height rises around the Urals, the precursor to the early May SSW.  I suspect any high pressure that does build to the NE will likely end up too far NE to provide much hope to those still chasing colder outcomes.

    In terms of the UK - Chillier than of late but little currently to suggest widespread cold/snowfall, as we go through March we require more spectacular synoptics to produce the goods. 

    So to summarise, -NAO regimes are likely, UK will be colder than of late as a result but in terms of UK specific cold/snow likelihoods I'd still rate these as being rather low.

    • Like 2
    • Insightful 1
  4. 13 minutes ago, Catacol said:

    Meanwhile summer approaches and I am dreading how much heat may come with it. Perhaps something significant can shift next winter so that the patterns and the accompanying temperatures can give snowball players more of a chance.

    Agreed re: Cold/snow likelihoods, I think we will see a -NAO return but I’m not confident on that translating to a winter wonderland, like you it will probably be more chilly rain. 

    On the quoted part though - I agree re: Summer, this perpetuating Iberian high pattern going into summer wouldn’t be good, Spain is already drought stricken & soil moisture is rapidly drying up now, I can definitely see scope for yet more record breaking temperatures across southern Europe this summer, especially when you factor in the declining El Niño & associated lag with the AAM as we transition into La Niña (probably sometime around mid summer). 

    Early indications of summer patterns don’t bode well. 

    • Like 1
  5. The idea of blocking during March certainly isn't without merit and for those chasing some early spring warmth (like me) the direction of travel is rather poor. 

    The MJO looks likely to return to phase 5/6 before the end of the month if we look at the VP200 anomalies (RMM plots are all over the place currently, some support this idea, some don't). I wonder if this is SSW related? 

    An uptick in +EAMT is expected thanks to a strengthening East Asia jet stream and we're currently seeing the highest amount of +ve westerly momentum since early December, this shown by the GWO plot being the highest of the season so far. 

    gwo_40d.thumb.gif.f0802562acadfb98f00fbe019a200f66.gif

    With the current SSW helping to destabalise the polar field combined with another likely weakening/possible reversal (maybe final warming?) early-mid March the idea of an increasingly -NAO regime seems to be the best bet currently. 

    • Like 5
    • Insightful 1
  6.  

    On 14/02/2024 at 13:23, Met4Cast said:

    There's no real sign in this fluxing switching to poleward fluxing and as a result there isn't much forcing to amplify Atlantic ridging into high latitude blocking later this month, hence the forecasts (and this is well represented within NWP modelling) generally favouring an amplified Atlantic ridge sending energy SEwards, for the UK this will likely bring colder weather than the anomalous warmth we've been seeing/will see in the coming days but probably wont be enough for a notable cold spell or widespread snow risks. 

    I think a good way to see how thing are progressing is to check previous posts so I've quoted this over from the teleconnections thread. Broadly this is how things are heading. 

    Certainly turning colder as next week progresses but for most not cold enough to produce snowfall to lower levels. Further ahead into March is rather complicated, the RMM MJO plots are proving rather useless currently but viewing the VP200 anomalies seems to suggest a decaying MJO signal into the COD through phase 8 before a resurgence into phase 5/6.

    chi200_cfs_mjo.global.7.thumb.png.a27c0bb88c1239bd2b94eb8d31dc15bb.png

    Broader westerly momentum continues to rise as yet another +EAMT begins to take hold which perhaps gives some confidence to the current modelling re: another stratosphere u-wind reversal early - mid March, an early final warming perhaps? Too early to say. 

    Given this, I'd not be surprised to see a -AO and perhaps trending -NAO towards the middle of March. Blocking patterns potentially finally taking hold, once again, too late?

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 1
  7. 4 hours ago, TEITS said:

    Whilst I shall continue to look at the teleconnection predictions and seasonal models. I shall look and see what the teleconnections suggest for the whole of Europe rather than the UK. I do not believe you can use these forecasting methods just for a small island like the UK.

    Thank you for the mention and I 100000% agree with this. 

    Teleconnections cannot be used to forecast for the UK specifically but can be used for the broadscale direction of travel, i.e blocking regimes might be more likely or even develop but what that translates to UK specific weather is impossible to say! That includes the MJO & use of it’s composites etc. 

    • Like 1
  8.  Blessed Weather

    Great post! I had actually been planning to create a post on this at some point in the coming days so good timing too. I think your conclusion on it being a strong reflection is probably correct, there were several things going on which likely led to the results we saw. It's quite difficult to "untangle" it all with limited vertical direction of travel on the charts, but I'll try & explain what I think happened using this strat observe chart.

    IMG_5234.thumb.jpeg.08a9bfcada10551bdbee159b45f6cf24.jpeg

    1: Minor warming occurred in early January and as highlighted in your post, Amy Butler & Simon Lee both talking about this leading to the -NAM state & Greenland high, I think this is probably right but we also saw AAM anomalies propagating poleward with support from the MJO meandering in phase 3, this minor warming likely added some extra juice to what was already becoming a favourable tropospheric led pattern for Greenland blocking/HLB.

    2: This -NAM then worked upwards into the stratosphere at a time we saw yet another SSW (whether this caused it or merely helped it? I'm not sure), I suspect this -NAM is the reason for the technical reversal we saw with this secondary strat event, the upwards propagation of -NAM however probably served to "cancel out" any downwelling from the major SSW in mid-Jan which then ultimately led to a breakdown in blocking and return to +ve zonal winds in the troposphere, as shown on the strat chart above due to the Canadian vortex shifting eastwards into the Atlantic sector. 

    Quite a complicated entanglement of different forces/drivers coming together, one that would absolutely not have been possible to predict at longer ranges and something that seemingly caught even the experts out, let alone us mere mortals! From what I've read since, these reflection events are rather rare. 

    So.. typical UK winter luck at play? 😜

    • Like 7
  9. 8 hours ago, Weather-history said:

    Has this been a bad winter for the teleconnections pundits and medium/long models?

    In a word, no, as my post 1 page back attempted to diagnose & show. 

     

    2 hours ago, Penrith Snow said:

    The fact that other 'signals' got it so badly wrong goes to prove how unreliable they are as a forecasting tool, yet we still hear evangelist going on about MJO phases, AAM and the dreaded mountain torque, give it a rest guys or at least explain why it went so wrong while good old fashion pattern matching had February spot on

    Perhaps if you took the time to read my post 1 page back on this thread you’d see that i’ve done exactly that. You’d also see that broadly teleconnections have gone largely as anticipated throughout this winter but shorter term changes within the stratosphere (that cannot be predicted) have caused a lot of issues. 

  10. 13 hours ago, stodge said:

    As to how it will behave in a warming world, I don't know either. A warmer atmosphere suggests more energy and more volatility so you'd expect more warmings but would it be weaker longer term?

    Very likely the opposite based on a few different studies. 

    The Stratosphere is actually cooling with climate change rather than warming, increasing amounts of CO2 trapped in the atmosphere means less heat radiating out & as such heat gets trapped primarily in the troposphere allowing the stratosphere to cool, a cooler stratosphere = larger temperature gradient between the Arctic and Equator which would lead to a stronger polar vortex rather than a weaker one. 

    You’re right though, more energy in the troposphere would suggest an increased likelihood of stronger “attacks” up into the strat so it’s quite a difficult one. 

    • Like 2
  11. 1 hour ago, Bricriu said:

    The background drivers didn't fail, they are just a reminder  that they do not guarantee  cold for us.

    Unfortunately as highlighted by myself & others in recent days, “background drivers” have been against the idea of a significant high latitude blocking episode. 

    It seems a major SSW is now unlikely too with a relatively quick sPV recovery compared to recent forecasts. 

    Very odd winter in terms of the stratosphere. 

    IMG_5209.thumb.png.b9628ad0ca248029ee6627011c2f7bf0.png

    • Like 2
  12. Given the recent discussions around teleconnections/AAM & the broader GSDM framework I thought I would begin posting in this thread, hopefully we can build up something of a more technical discussion here & separate from the usual chaos and ups and downs of the model output thread. Winter is coming to an end now so I suspect the forum will be quietening down so it's perhaps a good idea to start and see where we go through summer. 

    I've been delving into the GSDM and broader teleconnections for just over a year now after DMing Tamara & asking for some guidance. I'd still consider myself a novice but I do think this is the way forward in terms of mid-extended range forecasting despite recent comments from some. I wonder if @Paulor another mod could move this thread to the model output section? It seems a better fit vs here. My main goal is to try and get broader teleconnections discussed more by those who have an interest in the science & in forecasting vs just wanting a particular weather type. 

    Late February

    I've posted elsewhere re: late February prospects but figured I would discuss the current situation here too. The MJO is currently dwindling through phase 7 and into phase 8 which if taken into isolation correlates to a mid Atlantic ridge/amplified Azores high.

    The up-coming stratospheric warming can be linked back to the MJO passing through the Maritimes and into the Pacific Ocean (Phases 4 > 5 > 6) through mid-late January, this created +ve Frictional Torque which in turn creates Rossby waves that amplify northwards, the impact of this was a very strong +ve mountain torque event in late January leading to a Pacific jet extension, this created further Rossby wave packets that have led to anti-cylonic wave breaking into southern Europe helping to strengthen the Iberian/S European high over the past couple of weeks. You can see these Rossby wave packets on the ECM time longitude plots.

    ROSSBY.thumb.png.36ec159ce3539b1a04edb095d2caab8f.png

    Back to the SSW (technical or not), the strong +ve East Asian Mountain Torque (EAMT) essentially deflects waves from the troposphere up into the stratosphere, this has been sustained more or less since late January with wave activity impacting the stratospheric vortex & now resulting in it's collapse. You can see this heatflux on the stratosphere plot from stratobserve, it's no coincidence that this is showing strongly downstream of the Himalayas (this is the EAMT at work)

    ME.thumb.png.9c4a329052d7187505486cabf00940f2.png

    North American mountain ranges have also helped to generate heatflux (namely the Rocky mountain range) albeit to a lesser extent and now we're in a position where we're expecting significant deceleration of u-wind speeds in the stratosphere. 

    gltaum.90day.thumb.gif.222b92fd10225478ccadc38e900a0589.gif

    AAM anomalies and indeed flux direction plays a part in the Iberian high mentioned above & subsequent anticylonic breaking. I wont go into too much detail on this in this post as there's always a lot of information here, but in summary;

     

    +ve anomalies have been broadly equatorward since late January (between 30S and 0) with little momentum propagating poleward, this (from my understanding, happy to be corrected) tends to drive energy into sub tropical ridges (Hadley cell inc. the Azores high) and this broadly has been the dominating pattern through February so far. 

    gltotaam_sig.90day.thumb.gif.d02df58766f5ede4b9a09151802a93e4.gif

    There's no real sign in this fluxing switching to poleward fluxing and as a result there isn't much forcing to amplify Atlantic ridging into high latitude blocking later this month, hence the forecasts (and this is well represented within NWP modelling) generally favouring an amplified Atlantic ridge sending energy SEwards, for the UK this will likely bring colder weather than the anomalous warmth we've been seeing/will see in the coming days but probably wont be enough for a notable cold spell or widespread snow risks. 

    Any questions please feel free to ask, the idea of re-igniting this thread is to get more people interest in the science & forecasting aspect this can provide, the more people joining in and being open to background teleconnective forcing the better in my opinion. It is a shame the GSDM data is locked away and it does somewhat limit potential learning on the topic but I think we can get around that via discussions/sharing of data where possible on this forum.

     

    • Like 3
  13. 4 minutes ago, WINTRY WALES said:

    But if she made the move for a warmer climate then that would indicate Tamara does have a bias towards what the weather could be.

    I think the point being made is that Tamara doesn't live in the UK and therefore the weather the UK sees has absolutely no impact on her personally regardless of personal desires for particular weather types, given she's not in the country, that alone removes any bias and allows her to be completely objective & scientific when it comes to UK specific weather.

    • Like 9
  14.  Blessed Weather

    On the other hand, this will be the third SSW of the winter that has utterly failed to produce. A lot of hope is placed upon SSW's to produce but the truth is roughly 70% of split events produce colder weather across NW europe, that % is significantly lower for displacement events (as you know, I'm sure!)

    SSW's can produce holy grail synoptics, 2018 for example, but that was one of the most extreme synoptic responses to a SSW on record, the reality is usually (and unfortunately) more muted.

    • Like 4
  15. On 09/02/2024 at 19:25, Met4Cast said:

    Teleconnections aren’t providing much in the way of clarity either, equatorward fluxing of AAM anomalies are I suspect, helping to strengthen/maintain heights to the south of the UK whilst MJO through phases 7 & likely into weak amplitude 8 suggests blocking of the higher latitude type, two evidently opposing signals & an occasion when the tropics & sub tropics are not aligned towards the same potential outcomes, i.e opposing signals playing havoc with both NWP modelling & our ability to forecast in the medium-extended range with any clarity or confidence. 

    A potential SSW in the mix too only further complicates the picture. I think getting cold into the UK is going to be difficult, particularly further south and particularly during February. 

    I just want to go back to this post last Friday & indeed much of this is now coming home to roost within NWP modelling. If you're on a northern hill there's a good chance you'll see some snowfall next week as a deep trough slides SEwards with a little amplification of the Azores high following behind, not much luck for those further south though.

    The SSW has trended more towards a displacement event vs what had previously looked like a split event and as such, I'm not sure how much hope we can have on this being able to overcome other drivers (discussed in the quoted extract above)

    A perfect example, if ever, that taking the MJO in isolation & not in the context of broader windflow budgets often doesn't produce the desired outcome.

    • Like 2
  16. This up-coming SSW does appear to be strongly linked to the MJO & associated +MT events, particularly the East Asian Mountain Torque. A paper from, Balwin & Dunkerton 1992 titled "Stratospheric variability has important implications for surface climate" seems to suggest greater forecast accuracy of SSW events following MJO orbits through phases 6/7.

    We've been in a slow meandering phase 7 for a little while now but the previous eastwards progression into the Pacific triggered a (albeit quite weak) +FT event, the slow phase 6/7 has helped to amplify MT quite significantly & more prolonged than the initial +FT would have led you to believe.

    gltauf.90day.thumb.png.ae4890793604cebbed67342d88198cf6.pnggltaum.90day.thumb.png.367be6941341faad84326503bd39754a.png

    This strong & sustained +EAMT has allowed for continued heatflux to deflect upwards into the stratosphere, unsurprisingly originating from the Himalayas (and to some extent N American mountain ranges) as per the first strat observe chart attached below.

    gfs_nh-ehf-hgt_lonprs-xsect_20240213_f036.thumb.png.e0cbbd0aa1469d8cf1984e4c355f38f9.pnggfs_nh-ehflx_20240213.thumb.png.f07802819aa7f727bfb423f587ce40f2.png

    What comes next in terms of predicting future weather is quite difficult. AAM anomalies continue to flux equatorward so despite a likely SSW & continued forcing from the MJO on the face of it suggesting high latitude blocking I'm still not convinced there'll be enough "oomph" to transition from an Atlantic ridge to a Greenland ridge.

    I'm of the opinion that the late February cold weather will be more transient in nature, snow risks across N hills, perhaps along the N boundary of low pressure systems but by and large nothing out of the ordinary or exceptional, southern England once again probably struggling but determining the cold/mild boundary at this range is virtually impossible. Deep Scandi trough > Semi amplified Atlantic ridge seems the best bet currently. Colder than of late certainly, but widespread snowfall? Low likelihood from me currently.

    • Like 5
  17.  feb1991blizzard

    Yes much better. As stated in previous posts I think late Feb/early March holds the best potential. 

    Slow moving MJO phase 7 through late Feb > early March suggests Atlantic ridging retrogressing to Greenland & eventually a west based -NAO (GFS dets currently hinting at this broader evolution in the above timeframe) 

    In terms of the AAM we still have a lack of poleward fluxing but with a major SSW & split there is a window of opportunity for blocking beginning to appear within the context of a very unstable polar profile. 

    Not convinced on anything *prolonged* given the above but certainly potential for a cold spell at the end of the month. Blocking however might struggle to become sustained in the right places for long periods. 

    • Like 5
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