almac

Or... “Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.” Mahatma Gandhi

I hereby resteth my case. Happy hunting Stratos

I think by now you can probably see where my concern is coming from - so I'll leave the technicalities to you guys from now on. I'll take my leave and let this fine fellow do the talking.... Science is built up of facts, as a house is built of stones; but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house. ~Henri Poincaré, Science and Hypothesis, 1905

Once more... 2. This 'welter of well-supported evidence' is precisely what last night's C4 programme was alluding to; the very reason there's a 'welter' of GW info is because governments are happy to support the notion of GW for their own means. Not particularly. If you look closely at my previous post - and the part that you highlighted - I said this was what the C4 programme was alluding to. It's not my claim.

Here, here. My point exactly. The downside, however, is that the volume of pro-GW is vast and the volume of other theories is slim. It's a little difficult to make a balanced judgement based on an uneven argument. BTW, greetings P3. I hope I didn't cause you any offence last night?

1. Yes, I agree it seems fairly indisputable that our climate is warming. The stats show it to be the case. I have no argument with you here. In fact, I've never claimed the climate wasn't warming. 2. This 'welter of well-supported evidence' is precisely what last night's C4 programme was alluding to; the very reason there's a 'welter' of GW info is because governments are happy to support the notion of GW for their own means. Likewise, if governments had been happy to support the notion of GW cosmic rays for their own means then there would surely be a well-funded 'welter' of info on GW cosmic rays. Just because an ideology is well supported and has benefitted from much pondering and debating doesn't necessarily mean it's right. It might be more researched but not necessarily correct. I'm really playing Devil's Advocate, if I was being honest (it's not illegal, yet). While there are many people around who still doubt GW then surely they have a right to be listened to just as much as those who've already backed the GW horse? Last night's programme was stimulating because it dared to discuss something which has almost become gospel. It's the dogmatic approach to GW from some quarters that, quite frankly, unnerves me. Anyway, I'm still trawling through various documents that have been linked in previous replies. Such a shame there hasn't been more funding available for a comparible amount of research into the Sun's long-term affects on the the Earth's changing climate. Over to you Stratos...

Oops. Sorry. My fault. Semantics. I was in too much of a hurry to type. 'Let me make this simple; there is no contrary evidence.' This kind of statement is what worries me. It's dogma (in my most humblest of opinions). Goodnight all

Right, I'm off to bed now. Interesting thread. I suppose my main thrust - like the C4 programme - was to encourage more people to question what is scientifically 'accepted'. Just because an expert said something doesn't mean to say it's the truth. A perfect example came from the poster who earlier said no one questioned that the Earth wasn't flat until we found out it wasn't. It's healthy to question those who ask questions of us. An open mind leads to progress - that is surely beyond doubt

Belief/reason; let's be honest, that's nit-picking symantics. Do you believe in GW? After a spot of reasoning you probably do. My gripe is about swallowing the whole GW line; this steadfast refusal to waiver in the face of any contrary evidence, no matter how slight. Surely we owe it to ourselves not to have such closed minds.

Just like the crank TV summaries that we were once fed on TV about Global Warming? We thought that would 'vanish soon enough' too - but it didn't. In fact, it's now been fed to us for so long that a lot of people take it as gospel. It's the easiest thing in the world to dismiss material contrary to one's beliefs with a simple 'It'll vanish soon enough'. Says who? You?

There must be a lot of people insecure in their GW beliefs if one TV programme can elicit such a wide response. 'Almost every image and sentence was a carefully constructed deception or misrepresentation.' 'blatantly deceptive graphs'. 'overexaggerated claims of conspiracies'. That's strong, if maybe a tad overexaggerated, stuff from a GW believer. I recall when the Hitler Diaries sold a lot of newspapers. I also recall how Watergate revealed the truth while everyone else swallowed the party line.

I think 'that bit about the mosquitoes' was there to show that the IPCC cannot be trusted with the facts. They claimed that mosquitoes don't live below 18C, whereas one of their former scientists and world authorities on the subject said they can live below 18C. I'm sure it was just a TV ploy to cast further doubt on the credentials and postulating of the IPCC. Incidentally, there's a lot of 'feeble minded' people about Dave. Just look at all those who readily embraced the notion of GW.

Let's be forthright here, the GW doom merchants aren't going to change their minds on the basis of one C4 programme. That would be too much like admitting defeat. However, the fact that the programme was even commissioned, made and then aired in a prime evening TV slot is evidence enough that the pro-GW lobbyists might not just get it all their own way. There's GW doubting afoot and the noises are getting louder. Nothing annoys the public more than the feeling that they're being sold a dud. Only time will tell - meanwhile, tonight's programme at least goes a little way to redressing the balance over GW hysteria that we've all had to endure for so long. If you tell people something for long enough they'll start to believe in it (that's what Orwell maintained in that great masterpiece 1984). Isn't living in a democracy great? No one needs to take GW as gospel just because 'everyone' says it's true. PS This is my first post (lurker for a long time). PPS No need to be kind to me just because I'm a noob PPPS Enjoying this debate, folks.