Alien intelligence

[Bobby]

I seem to be one of the increasingly few people who doesn't believe that intelligent extra-terrestrial life exists. The reason I don't believe so is based on Occam's razor and a bit of logic, based on just one fact:

- There is no empirical evidence that we have that would suggest that extra-terrestrial life exists.

I dismiss all reports of UFO's and so on, they are all so dodgy and unconfirmed, I am sticking to solid scientific evidence. stuff that would appear in scientific journals. I doubt some redneck in Alabama seeing some bright light while drunk would make it into a paper, or some grainy photo. There is as of yet no accepted proper evidence to suggest intelligent life elsewhere.

So one must ask if we haven't seen any evidence of aliens yet, where are they? There could be aliens out there somewhere far away but there could also be pink leprechauns living in castles on Pluto. We can't prove or disprove either, so the only logical stance, following Occam's razor, is that there is no intelligent life out there, until proven. It's the simplest path of reason.

There is absolutely no basis to believe that intelligent alien life exists - it is an invalid belief. We have just 1 example of life in the Universe - on our own planet. Without any other examples, to believe that there are aliens out there is an invalid belief. It's fair enough to believe that there COULD be aliens out there, because there could well be - we don't know. Just like there could be those pink leprechauns on Pluto. There seem to be a lot of people though that strongly believe that aliens exist, and without evidence, it is just faith, like religion.

It is such a fascinating subject though. While I don't think there are aliens out there, I am open the possibility that there could be. If there are aliens out there, I believe we will find them in the next 50 years, in most of our lifetimes. There is a new telescope being constructed that should be launched in a few years which should be able to photograph alien planets in good detail. There are also increasingly powerful radio telescopes being developed all the time. Despite my scepticism I do believe that the SETI programme is worthwhile, given the astoninshing importance of success, even though as every day goes by, the odds of finding a signal diminish.

I suppose it all comes down to the origin of life. Why can't we create life? Why did life only emerge once on Earth? The answers to these questions only enchance my scepticism.

Anyway, excuse my rambling, this is just a subject that fascinates me. Does anyone think there is life out there, if so why? And what would happen to the world if alien intelligence was confirmed. Blimey, those are big questions!

[davehsug]

For me, it's just a matter of statistics. There are so many billions of billions of planets out there that the odds of us being the only one with life must be tiny.

Given the way that life hangs on in the most tenuous places on Earth, I think it's probably quite common & widespread.

As for intelligent life. Again the odds for me say yes. I read or heard somewhere that the only reason that intelligent life exists, is that the universe wants us hear to uderstand it, if you get my meaning.

That being the case, the best chance the universe has of being understood is to have lots of intelligent life.

Dave

[Bobby]

For me, it's just a matter of statistics. There are so many billions of billions of planets out there that the odds of us being the only one with life must be tiny.

Given the way that life hangs on in the most tenuous places on Earth, I think it's probably quite common & widespread.

As for intelligent life. Again the odds for me say yes. I read or heard somewhere that the only reason that intelligent life exists, is that the universe wants us hear to uderstand it, if you get my meaning.

That being the case, the best chance the universe has of being understood is to have lots of intelligent life.

Dave

That's faith though, there isn't actually evidence that life exists on other planets. Only that life exists on Earth. As things stand, it would seem more likely, since lack of evidence to the contrary, that life on Earth was a mind bogglingly lucky event. Maybe even a quantum event that will never occur again. Saying that "life exists on Earth so it must exist on other planets" is an invalid argument really.

[davehsug]

That's faith though, there isn't actually evidence that life exists on other planets. Only that life exists on Earth. As things stand, it would seem more likely, since lack of evidence to the contrary, that life on Earth was a mind bogglingly lucky event. Maybe even a quantum event that will never occur again. Saying that "life exists on Earth so it must exist on other planets" is an invalid argument really.

Yes I suppose it is a kind of faith but grounded in reality. As I said, life happens at the drop of a hat here on Earth so that must increase the probability.

I suppose we may be a little wiser in the coming years. When we finally get to Mars, we may find evidence that life once existed, & maybe still does in some areas, in a very primitive form. I believe there are also plans to send a probe to Europa, which is the most likely other place in the solar system for life to exist, in the water which is thought to be under the icy surface.

If we find that life exists/existed in either of these places, the chance that we could be alone becomes zero as far as I'm concerned.

Dave

[trebor]

some thoughts

If aliens exist but can't prove that we do, does that mean we don't exist?

or

who's to say we are not the aliens.

also the universe is such a huge place it would be a waste of space if we were the only things in it.

Edited July 12, 2007 by trebor

[SP1986]

ok, to mix things up a bit more, how do we know were not in nothingness and something is tricking us into thinking were alive, etc abit like a medicine that tricks the mind into thinking its a cure.. hmmm.

[PersianPaladin]

We don't know. But I believe the cosmos to be infinite....and hence, a likely chance of differing life-forms out there.

[*AL*]

Just how big is the Universe? How can it never end and be infinite? Maybe the universe is a big sphere beyond which there are may more spheres filled with galaxies, but how big and how infinate can this be?

[Bobby]

ok, to mix things up a bit more, how do we know were not in nothingness and something is tricking us into thinking were alive, etc abit like a medicine that tricks the mind into thinking its a cure.. hmmm.

Well, that's possible, but impossible to prove or disprove so there's not much point in thinking about it as we could never know. Same thing with the computer simulation Matrix thing, that we're all computer programs living in a virtual world. We could never disprove it or prove it. A belief in that would be down to faith.

The universe isn't infinite though. It has a definite size, a beginning and an end. It's hard to imagine though that it could have an end, but I believe the theory is that if you kept on going and going, you'd just end up where you came from, like if you travelled across the world - you'd end up back where you came from eventually. I'm not expert though, tis mind boggling stuff.

There could be an infinte amount of universes though, in which case the amount of intelligent alien civilizations out there would also be infinite. Crazy.

[Big Bear]

In the infinity of space, it would be very naive to assume we are the only form of life that exists, has ever existed, or may exist in the future.

Several scientists from NASA and Stanford University announced their findings of ancient, fossilized, microscopic life from a Martian meteorite, known as ALH84001. The meteorite was catapulted away from Mars fifteen million years ago when a huge comet or asteroid impacted the surface. The meteorite travelled through space for millions of years and then encountered the Earth. It entered Earth's atmosphere about thirteen thousand years ago and landed at Antarctica. The meteorite lay there until 1984, when a team from the NASA Johnson Space Center found it while exploring the Allan Hills ice field, and brought it back to Houston. It was initially classified as a lunar meteorite, but in 1993 was correctly identified as from Mars. It is one of only twelve "SNC" meteorites, which match the unique chemical signature of Mars.

So when you consider the existence of us, and evidence of other life BOTH sharing a relatively minature pocket of space, to write off the idea of extraterrestrial life would be IMO rather narrow minded.

The fact we have not established commuication from outer space is down to the sheer lack of speed & distance of our radio signals, which SETI transmit 24 hours a day 7 days a week, hoping for a reply, when in reality we have covered an area the size of a pea in the Atlantic ocean. Still, even today The first signal pulse transmitted in the 70's has only reached a relatively short distance. For a signal to reach ET life and be replied to, just doubles the waiting time.

Whether space in in fact infinate or not, is the ultimate question which will probably never be answered.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Big Bear

[Bobby]

In the infinity of space, it would be very naive to assume we are the only form of life that exists, has ever existed, or may exist in the future.

Several scientists from NASA and Stanford University announced their findings of ancient, fossilized, microscopic life from a Martian meteorite, known as ALH84001. The meteorite was catapulted away from Mars fifteen million years ago when a huge comet or asteroid impacted the surface. The meteorite travelled through space for millions of years and then encountered the Earth. It entered Earth's atmosphere about thirteen thousand years ago and landed at Antarctica. The meteorite lay there until 1984, when a team from the NASA Johnson Space Center found it while exploring the Allan Hills ice field, and brought it back to Houston. It was initially classified as a lunar meteorite, but in 1993 was correctly identified as from Mars. It is one of only twelve "SNC" meteorites, which match the unique chemical signature of Mars.

So when you consider the existence of us, and evidence of other life BOTH sharing a relatively minature pocket of space, to write off the idea of extraterrestrial life would be IMO rather narrow minded.

The fact we have not established commuication from outer space is down to the sheer lack of speed & distance of our radio signals, which SETI transmit 24 hours a day 7 days a week, hoping for a reply, when in reality we have covered an area the size of a pea in the Atlantic ocean. Still, even today The first signal pulse transmitted in the 70's has only reached a relatively short distance. For a signal to reach ET life and be replied to, just doubles the waiting time.

Whether space in in fact infinate or not, is the ultimate question which will probably never be answered.

I believe now that it's generally regarded that there wasn't that any fossilised life on that meteorite, even though it was thought initially So, if that rock is also showing no signs of life, we are still left with Earth, and the lack of any other solid evidence points in only one direction - that we are alone.

[trebor]

I like Schrödingers cat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

basically it works like this

If you can't see something does it mean it isn't there.

but after that thought people usually end up in a discussion about religion

so I'm leaving now

[Essan]

Life elsewhere in the universe? Seems likely if not highly probable. Something we'd recognise as intelligent life? That's different.

IMO the fact that of all the millions (billions?) of species to appear on Earth in the past 3,500,000,000 odd years, only one species has developed what we'd call intelligence, suggests that such intelligence is very rare indeed. And bare in mind that even that species has only been capable of heavier than air flight or radio communication for 100 years ..... So for 3,499,999,900 out of the past 3,500,000,000 years messages could have been sent to earth and although there was life here, no-one could pick those messages up.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Essan

[Osbourne One-Nil]

intelligence is very rare indeed.

Oh yes.

[PersianPaladin]

Oh yes.

Yes....thats if you don't believe in intelligent design.

[VillagePlank]

In the infinity of space, it would be very naive to assume we are the only form of life that exists, has ever existed, or may exist in the future.

On that note, if the universe has existed for a very long time, with all those possibilities it must, therefore, be entirely possible that an alien civilisation appeared some billion or so years before us. I must therefore presume that they have developed interstellar space travel.

Why haven't they said 'Hello' yet?

[Bobby]

On that note, if the universe has existed for a very long time, with all those possibilities it must, therefore, be entirely possible that an alien civilisation appeared some billion or so years before us. I must therefore presume that they have developed interstellar space travel.

Why haven't they said 'Hello' yet?

Indeed, that's basically the crux of my belief. Also known as "Fermi's Paradox".

[noggin]

On that note, if the universe has existed for a very long time, with all those possibilities it must, therefore, be entirely possible that an alien civilisation appeared some billion or so years before us. I must therefore presume that they have developed interstellar space travel.

Why haven't they said 'Hello' yet?

I remember back in the late 60s/early70s (I think) a theory was put forward that a lot of ancient things on Earth were constructed by technologically advanced "aliens". Can't remember the name of either the person whose theory it was, nor the title of the book about it.

It's annoying me now.

Got it now! "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Daniken

Edited July 19, 2007 by noggin

[Bobby]

I remember back in the late 60s/early70s (I think) a theory was put forward that a lot of ancient things on Earth were constructed by technologically advanced "aliens". Can't remember the name of either the person whose theory it was, nor the title of the book about it.

It's annoying me now.

Got it now! "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Daniken

I wonder what the evidence for that is? Why would they think that?

[VillagePlank]

Indeed, that's basically the crux of my belief. Also known as "Fermi's Paradox".

It has a name? Cool.

I have to be careful, now, I've been exposed as the uneducated brute that I really am.

[davehsug]

It would make sense, but would tend to back Einstein's "nothing can travel faster than light" theory.

I've always sort of clung to the hope that just because we didn't know of anything that travelled faster than light didn't mean that it couldn't.

No doubt however, more advanced civillisations than us have existed in the past & they don't seem to have discovered the trick.

Mind you, why would you visit the Earth? The Stoke-on-Trent of inhabbited planets I would have thought :o

Dave

[Bobby]

It has a name? Cool.

I have to be careful, now, I've been exposed as the uneducated brute that I really am.

Yup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[noggin]

I wonder what the evidence for that is? Why would they think that?

One thing that I remember reading was about "structures" on the ground (for want of another way of putting it!) in South America. They were so large as to be un-noticeable at ground level (just appearing as humps and bumps and ditches and that sort of thing) but when viewed from a great height, a really great height, (such as from an aeroplane), it was immediately obvious that they were geometric to the point that they had to have been made by intelligent "beings" who had to have been able to "see" from the equivalent height, in order to construct them, IYKWIM!

I also seem to recall that there were ancient carvings on cave walls which appeared to depict beings that were not of this Earth.

Well, that's two things I remember from the book. There was lots more to it though.

Just reporting what I recall.........not saying whether I believe it or not! <_<

I have an open mind.

Edited July 20, 2007 by noggin

[Michael Winston]

I seem to be one of the increasingly few people who doesn't believe that intelligent extra-terrestrial life exists. The reason I don't believe so is based on Occam's razor and a bit of logic, based on just one fact:

- There is no empirical evidence that we have that would suggest that extra-terrestrial life exists.

I dismiss all reports of UFO's and so on, they are all so dodgy and unconfirmed, I am sticking to solid scientific evidence. stuff that would appear in scientific journals. I doubt some redneck in Alabama seeing some bright light while drunk would make it into a paper, or some grainy photo. There is as of yet no accepted proper evidence to suggest intelligent life elsewhere.

So one must ask if we haven't seen any evidence of aliens yet, where are they? There could be aliens out there somewhere far away but there could also be pink leprechauns living in castles on Pluto. We can't prove or disprove either, so the only logical stance, following Occam's razor, is that there is no intelligent life out there, until proven. It's the simplest path of reason.

There is absolutely no basis to believe that intelligent alien life exists - it is an invalid belief. We have just 1 example of life in the Universe - on our own planet. Without any other examples, to believe that there are aliens out there is an invalid belief. It's fair enough to believe that there COULD be aliens out there, because there could well be - we don't know. Just like there could be those pink leprechauns on Pluto. There seem to be a lot of people though that strongly believe that aliens exist, and without evidence, it is just faith, like religion.

It is such a fascinating subject though. While I don't think there are aliens out there, I am open the possibility that there could be. If there are aliens out there, I believe we will find them in the next 50 years, in most of our lifetimes. There is a new telescope being constructed that should be launched in a few years which should be able to photograph alien planets in good detail. There are also increasingly powerful radio telescopes being developed all the time. Despite my scepticism I do believe that the SETI programme is worthwhile, given the astoninshing importance of success, even though as every day goes by, the odds of finding a signal diminish.

I suppose it all comes down to the origin of life. Why can't we create life? Why did life only emerge once on Earth? The answers to these questions only enchance my scepticism.

Anyway, excuse my rambling, this is just a subject that fascinates me. Does anyone think there is life out there, if so why? And what would happen to the world if alien intelligence was confirmed. Blimey, those are big questions!

Hi, Magpie.

Try the book 'Are We Alone? The Stanley Kubrick Extra-Terrestrial-Intelligence Interviews' published by Elliott & Thompson, November 2005. Edited with an Introduction, Notes, etc, by Anthony Frewin. It costs about £12 -£13 and is a fascinating read.

A great summer book - enjoy!

Kind regards,

Mike.

[Bobby]

Hi, Magpie.

Try the book 'Are We Alone? The Stanley Kubrick Extra-Terrestrial-Intelligence Interviews' published by Elliott & Thompson, November 2005. Edited with an Introduction, Notes, etc, by Anthony Frewin. It costs about £12 -£13 and is a fascinating read.

A great summer book - enjoy!

Kind regards,

Mike.

Sounds interesting. Stanley Kubrick? My favourite director of all time though.